The time, times, and a half does not include the season and time, which is the thousand years.

[Stewardofthemystery]

I don't mind if I am wrong in this case. I hope I am. That means per Amil verse 13 would be meaning after Christ has returned, except some Amils have the entire planet literally engulfed in flames the same way it was engulfed in water. As if verse 13 makes sense per a scenario like that, that if the entire planet is literally burning everything and everyone up, that there would be this pointless earthquake that kills this 7000, and that there would be this pointless remnant that were affrighted by this, so they then gave glory to God out of heaven. All the while the entire planet is supposed to be burning up everything and everyone in it's path. Ok, if you say so. Makes perfect sense to me---not.

Nothing supports their literal interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12. Revelation 11:11-13 certainly doesn't. Nor does anything recorded in Revelation 19 support it. There is nothing in the text that suggests the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames at the time.

I personally believe the earth is going to be consumed by fire, and that in a sense it shall also cleanse and renew the earth. But I also believe that God is going to allow a remnant of mankind to remain to repopulate the earth during the millennium.

I suppose if people were to go underground during this time they could survive. But to me God allows a few men to survive in order to fulfill His will and purpose during the millennium.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

The dead are all judged at the same time. Scripture repeatedly shows all people being judged at the same time, but you don't want to acknowledge that.

No, they are not. The dead in Christ are raised and judged first. The first judgement is to the house of God.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Why do you have the righteous being judged 1,000+ years before the wicked when Jesus has them being judged at the same time? Do you think Jesus was mistaken?

The separation by the angels is of the Living wicked from the Living righteous, that is what Matthew 13:47 about. What do you think “the rest of the dead” being raised and judged a thousand years later is about if you believe ALL the dead are raised and judged at the same time? What you are saying contradicts the fact that there are 2 separate resurrections and judgements a thousand years apart.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I didn't say anything about amill.

I asked if you have any scripture that shows the beast and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire after the 1000 years?

I posted scripture showing them being cast into the lake of fire 1000 years before anyone else They are judged 1000 years before anyone else The beasts entire kingdom is judged 1000 years before anyone else.

That is based on your assumption that what is described in Revelation 19 occurs before what is described in Revelation 20. But, it doesn't. Interpreting Revelation 19 and 20 the way you do contradicts other scriptures, so you have to take those into account as well. But, it seems that you don't care about that.

If you understood amill then you would know what scriptures I use to back it up and it would answer your question about which scriptures show the beast and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire after the 1000 years. Do you believe everything described in the book of Revelation is in chronological order? Clearly, Revelation 11 and 12 are not in chronological order. Jesus's birth and ascension didn't occur after the seventh trumpet. So, do you take things like that into consideration when interpreting the book of Revelation or do you just make assumptions that everything is in chronological order?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, they are not. The dead in Christ are raised and judged first. The first judgement is to the house of God.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

You continue to take scripture out of context. I showed you the context of 1 Thess 4:14-17 and you don't care. It has nothing to do with anyone being judged. Scripture is clear that the saved and lost will be judged at the same time (Matt 13:36-43, Matt 13:47-50, Matt 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2).

The separation by the angels is of the Living wicked from the Living righteous, that is what Matthew 13:47 about.

No, it isn't. It includes the dead wicked and dead righteous as well. Jesus said in John 5:28-29 that a singular hour is coming when both the dead wicked and dead righteous will be resurrected and they will then be judged. You don't accept what Jesus taught. Daniel 12:2 also shows both the wicked and righteous dead being resurrected at the same time (one resurrection event, not two).

What do you think “the rest of the dead” being raised and judged a thousand years later is about if you believe ALL the dead are raised and judged at the same time? What you are saying contradicts the fact that there are 2 separate resurrections and judgements a thousand years apart.

I'm not willing to interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts other scripture like you are. In Revelation 20:4, when it refers to those who have part in the first resurrection, it says they "lived and reigned with Christ". It doesn't say they are resurrected and then reign with Christ. They are those who spiritually had part in Christ's resurrection, which is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20) and when they die they go to be in heaven and live and reign with Christ there. John said he saw their souls, not their bodies.

The Greek word translated as "lived" in verse 4 is "zao", but the Greek word translated as "lived...again" in verse 5 in relation to "the rest of the dead" is "anazao". The word "zao" is a word to describe being alive and living one's life. It is not a word used to refer to someone being resurrected. The word "anazao", however, is a word used to describe someone being resurrected. So, you're missing the difference in the context between the references to the dead in Christ and "the rest of the dead" in Revelation 20.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I personally believe the earth is going to be consumed by fire, and that in a sense it shall also cleanse and renew the earth.

That is what I believe as well. You don't even realize that a number of your beliefs are things that, mostly, only amils believe and not other premils. That includes things like your belief that the time references in Revelation like the 42 months, 1260 days are symbolic and that the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark rather than a physical one. Which is why I called you a strange one because of how you believe some things that most premils don't and most amils do. It's strange to me that you can recognize that the 42 months and 1260 days reference sare not literal, but you still insist that the thousand years is literal. I personally don't believe any of the time references in the book are literal.

But I also believe that God is going to allow a remnant of mankind to remain to repopulate the earth during the millennium.

I suppose if people were to go underground during this time they could survive. But to me God allows a few men to survive in order to fulfill His will and purpose during the millennium.

So, how do you suppose that God goes about choosing which unbelievers should survive?

Why did Paul not give any indication that there would be any unbelieving survivors if that is what will happen? If that was true, it seems to me that he would have wanted to make that clear, but he didn't.

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

You have a few "hat know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" surviving Christ's return, but Paul gave no indication of that whatsoever. Why would that be? I don't believe Paul would have neglected to include that detail if it was true.

He also gave no indication of that in this passage:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Paul said "they shall not escape" in reference to unbelievers who are in spiritual darkness on the day Jesus returns as a thief in the night. But, you say at least a few shall escape. It seems to me that Paul taught only those who are not in spiritual darkness and instead are in spiritual light will survive.

When you look at how Peter described what will cause that "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" in 2 Peter 3:10-12, I'm not seeing any way any mortal could escape that since it describes the burning up of the entire earth.

Why do you think that neither Paul nor Peter gave any indication at all that any unbelieving mortals will survive Christ's return? Obviously, I believe it's because that none will. But, you think a few will. So, what is your explanation for that detail not being tuaght by Peter or Paul (or by Jesus for that matter)?

 

[tailgator]

That is based on your assumption that what is described in Revelation 19 occurs before what is described in Revelation 20. But, it doesn't. Interpreting Revelation 19 and 20 the way you do contradicts other scriptures, so you have to take those into account as well. But, it seems that you don't care about that.

If you understood amill then you would know what scriptures I use to back it up and it would answer your question about which scriptures show the beast and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire after the 1000 years. Do you believe everything described in the book of Revelation is in chronological order? Clearly, Revelation 11 and 12 are not in chronological order. Jesus's birth and ascension didn't occur after the seventh trumpet. So, do you take things like that into consideration when interpreting the book of Revelation or do you just make assumptions that everything is in chronological order?

I do believe it is self evident that the beast who the resurected saints do not worship or recieve it's mark is destroyed in revelation 19 and the saints who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus are resurected after or when the beast is destroyed and not before..If the saints which did not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark are resurected and are given its kingdom before the beast is destroyed ,then that would make no sense at all.


The beast being destroyed and his kingdom being given to the saints while the other beasts of the world are not destroyed is supported by other scripture.
I believe your problem is you believe the place called Armageddon is the world when the fact of the matter is,it's just a place in Israel.
Scripture shows one beast being consumed but the rest of the world is not.It is when this one beast is destroyed that his kingdom under heaven is given to the saints of God.Still the other beasts of the earth which are other kingdoms are not destroyed or consumed .This supports revelation 19:20-20 :4.

Daniel 7

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


There is only one beast that is destroyed at Christs coming. The other beasts are not.
Daniel 7 supports revelation 19-20.

 

[tailgator]

That is based on your assumption that what is described in Revelation 19 occurs before what is described in Revelation 20. But, it doesn't. Interpreting Revelation 19 and 20 the way you do contradicts other scriptures, so you have to take those into account as well. But, it seems that you don't care about that.

If you understood amill then you would know what scriptures I use to back it up and it would answer your question about which scriptures show the beast and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire after the 1000 years. Do you believe everything described in the book of Revelation is in chronological order? Clearly, Revelation 11 and 12 are not in chronological order. Jesus's birth and ascension didn't occur after the seventh trumpet. So, do you take things like that into consideration when interpreting the book of Revelation or do you just make assumptions that everything is in chronological order?

Try to understand this prophecy concerning the beast and his kingdom being consumed and then given to the saints.

Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


Like I said,this supports revelation 19-20.

But what you have been assuming is the beast is not consumed before the resurected saints recieve his kingdom.You and assuming he is consumed after the saints have reigned in that land for 1000 years which makes no sense at all.
It happens just as Daniel and revelations shows.

First the kingdom of the beast is consumed.
Then that kingdom under heaven is given to the resurected saints.
After a thousand years the other beasts of the world came against their kingdom and the other beasts are destroyed at that time .
Then there will be a new heaven and New earth.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You continue to take scripture out of context.

Not at all.
Notice those who are of the first physical resurrection are called blessed and holy…

Revelation 20:4-6

King James Version
​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had notworshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Also notice in verse 5 it says “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished”

This clearly states that not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time.

The dead in Christ rise FIRST as is written, they are the “blessed and holy” who are of the FIRSTresurrection.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

That is what I believe as well. You don't even realize that a number of your beliefs are things that, mostly, only amils believe and not other premils. That includes things like your belief that the time references in Revelation like the 42 months, 1260 days are symbolic and that the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark rather than a physical one. Which is why I called you a strange one because of how you believe some things that most premils don't and most amils do. It's strange to me that you can recognize that the 42 months and 1260 days reference sare not literal, but you still insist that the thousand years is literal. I personally don't believe any of the time references in the book are literal.

That should tell you I don’t follow the doctrines of men, I was taught by Jesus Christ, believe it or not.

Even many false doctrines have partial truths in them, but not the whole Truth as the Holy Spirit teaches.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

No lie is of the Truth-1 John 2:21

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I do believe it is self evident that the beast who the resurected saints do not worship or recieve it's mark is destroyed in revelation 19 and the saints who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus are resurected after or when the beast is destroyed and not before..If the saints which did not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark are resurected and are given its kingdom before the beast is destroyed ,then that would make no sense at all.

Yes, that's what you believe, but you don't understand that your belief contradicts other scripture which teaches that all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected at the same time.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you reconcile your interpretation of Revelation 20 with a passage like this?

The beast being destroyed and his kingdom being given to the saints while the other beasts of the world are not destroyed is supported by other scripture.
I believe your problem is you believe the place called Armageddon is the world when the fact of the matter is,it's just a place in Israel.

So, do you believe the reference to Magog (Gog is a person) in the following verse is a reference to some local place on earth rather than to the world, too?

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

Scripture shows one beast being consumed but the rest of the world is not.It is when this one beast is destroyed that his kingdom under heaven is given to the saints of God.Still the other beasts of the earth which are other kingdoms are not destroyed or consumed .This supports revelation 19:20-20 :4.

Daniel 7

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


There is only one beast that is destroyed at Christs coming. The other beasts are not.
Daniel 7 supports revelation 19-20.

You're not understanding that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are kingdoms (Daniel 7:23) and represent successive world empires (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome). So, verse 12 is simply a parenthetical verse indicating what had previously happened to the rest of the beasts (world kingdoms/empires) since Daniel knew that people would wonder about happened to them. But, they are no longer around by the time the fourth beast, which Daniel 7:11 refers to, is destroyed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That should tell you I don’t follow the doctrines of men, I was taught by Jesus Christ, believe it or not.

It tells me that you are arrogant and think God reveals some truth only to you. You're not alone in that arrogant way of thinking here. There's plenty of lone wolves here who have some beliefs all to themselves while thinking that God reveals some truths only to them.

Even many false doctrines have partial truths in them, but not the whole Truth as the Holy Spirit teaches.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

No lie is of the Truth-1 John 2:21

Amillennialism is the truth as I have repeatedly shown. It doesn't require any twisting or manipulation of scripture like you do, such as when you blatantly take 1 Thess 4:16 out of context by suggesting that the dead in Christ rising first is a reference to the order of mass bodily resurrections when that is not at all the context of that verse. Your interpretation of that verse reveals that you are willing to make scripture say what you want it to say in order to make it fit your doctrine. I know Jesus didn't teach you to do that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not at all.
Notice those who are of the first physical resurrection are called blessed and holy…

I don't see it as referring to their physical, bodily resurrection and instead see it as referring to those who spiritually have part in Christ's resurrection, which was the first resurrection unto bodily immortality (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20). But, in terms of those who have part in the first resurrection, did I say they're not blessed and holy? No. So, why are you arguing with a strawman instead of with me? Did you even read what I said in my post? It sure doesn't seem like it. Read what I actually say and respond to that instead of what your imaginary strawman says.

Revelation 20:4-6​

​

King James Version​

​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had notworshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Also notice in verse 5 it says “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished”

This clearly states that not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time.

The dead in Christ rise FIRST as is written, they are the “blessed and holy” who are of the FIRSTresurrection.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace

I address this in the post you created saying this exact same thing in your new thread, so we can discuss it there instead of discussing it in two places at once. You are blatantly taking 1 Thessalonians 4:16 out of context, which says a lot about what you're willing to do with scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, that's what you believe, but you don't understand that your belief contradicts other scripture which teaches that all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected at the same time.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you reconcile your interpretation of Revelation 20 with a passage like this?


So, do you believe the reference to Magog (Gog is a person) in the following verse is a reference to some local place on earth rather than to the world, too?

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.


You're not understanding that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are kingdoms (Daniel 7:23) and represent successive world empires (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome). So, verse 12 is simply a parenthetical verse indicating what had previously happened to the rest of the beasts (world kingdoms/empires) since Daniel knew that people would wonder about happened to them. But, they are no longer around by the time the fourth beast, which Daniel 7:11 refers to, is destroyed.

John 5:28 is about the coming of Christ and the resurrection which takes place at that time.It corresponds to Israel being resurected out of the graves and being given the land of Israel in Ezekiel 37 which corresponds to both Daniel 7 and revelation 20.Gog coming against resurected Israel in revelation 20 corresponds to Gog coming against resurected Israel in Ezekiel 38-39.

In all accounts,the land of Israel is taken from the beast and given to the resurected saints of Israel who did not worship the beast ,it's image nor receive it's mark .Israel shall reign in the Lords land as scripture shows.

Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, that's what you believe, but you don't understand that your belief contradicts other scripture which teaches that all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected at the same time.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you reconcile your interpretation of Revelation 20 with a passage like this?


So, do you believe the reference to Magog (Gog is a person) in the following verse is a reference to some local place on earth rather than to the world, too?

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.


You're not understanding that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are kingdoms (Daniel 7:23) and represent successive world empires (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome). So, verse 12 is simply a parenthetical verse indicating what had previously happened to the rest of the beasts (world kingdoms/empires) since Daniel knew that people would wonder about happened to them. But, they are no longer around by the time the fourth beast, which Daniel 7:11 refers to, is destroyed.

Do you agree the kingdom of the beast ,under heaven is consumed and then given to the saints as Daniel shows?
And in this order?

Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Davidpt]

I suppose if people were to go underground during this time they could survive.

And that's what happens sometimes when someone assumes nonsense to begin with. They add yet more nonsense to it in order to get the initial nonsense to supposedly work. I guess all the animals will get moved underground as well? Why not? If they can fit on an an ark they should be able to fit underground somewhere. If your understanding of 2 Peter 3:10-12 was correct to begin with, you should be able to make it work without having to add absurd nonsense to it in order to get it to seemingly work. Keeping in mind, unlike Amils, you have a thousand year era following when 2 Peter 3:10-12 is meaning, to fulfill, and they don't.

But even so, their position regarding 2 Peter 3:10-12 is just as nonsensical as yours is, but in a different way. Matthew 25 records that Christ is returning and when He does, He will then sit upon the throne of His glory. Accept Amils have no place for Him to return, they have the entire planet engulfed in flames instead. This sheep and goats judgment is a major issue for them since it has to be taking place on the earth except they insist Christ never sets foot back on the earth until after the great white throne judgment has been fulfilled, except that the sheep and goats judgment couldn't possibly be meaning after the great white throne judgment has been fulfilled.

Where do they think Christ is returning to in Matthew 25? The moon? Mars perhaps? Heaven? Umm, as to the latter, He just left there when Matthew 25:31 is meaning. He is then going to do a u turn instead?

Therefore, logic says that where ever He is returning to that is where He then sits upon the throne of His glory. And that He obviously initially does this before the great white throne judgment has been fulfilled, not after it has been fulfilled

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


When the Son of man shall come in his glory to WHERE??? The Moon, Mars, Heaven? Where???

When does He sit upon the throne of his glory?

Before He does this---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him?

Or after He does this----When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him?


These are not difficult questions to answer if one is sticking to what the text says.

Amils need the entire planet to be engulfed in flames, that way Premil can't be true. You OTOH also need the entire planet to be engulfed in flames for some reason or another, but then insist Premil is still true, regardless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

John 5:28 is about the coming of Christ and the resurrection which takes place at that time.It corresponds to Israel being resurected out of the graves and being given the land of Israel in Ezekiel 37 which corresponds to both Daniel 7 and revelation 20.

You are not reading that passage very carefully.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you think that this passage corresponds to Ezekiel 37, Daniel 7 and Revelation 20 exactly? Where do Ezekiel 37 and Daniel 7 say anything about anyone being resurrected unto damnation at the same time others are resurrected to life (presumably eternal life)?

Gog coming against resurected Israel in revelation 20 corresponds to Gog coming against resurected Israel in Ezekiel 38-39.

Revelation 20:7-9 happens after the thousand years. Don't you believe Christ comes before the thousand years? Do you believe that Ezekiel 38-39 happens before or after the thousand years?

In all accounts,the land of Israel is taken from the beast and given to the resurected saints of Israel who did not worship the beast ,it's image nor receive it's mark .Israel shall reign in the Lords land as scripture shows.

Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And how will that happen in light of what it says will happen when Christ returns in passages like these?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

This land you're talking about Israel supposedly inheriting will be burned up when Jesus comes, so that makes it impossible for them to inherit that land unless you were talking about the new earth.

 

[tailgator]

You are not reading that passage very carefully.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you think that this passage corresponds to Ezekiel 37, Daniel 7 and Revelation 20 exactly? Where do Ezekiel 37 and Daniel 7 say anything about anyone being resurrected unto damnation at the same time others are resurrected to life (presumably eternal life)?


Revelation 20:7-9 happens after the thousand years. Don't you believe Christ comes before the thousand years? Do you believe that Ezekiel 38-39 happens before or after the thousand years?


And how will that happen in light of what it says will happen when Christ returns in passages like these?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

This land you're talking about Israel supposedly inheriting will be burned up when Jesus comes, so that makes it impossible for them to inherit that land unless you were talking about the new earth.

Daniel 12:2 is about the same resurrection of Israel.
It shows people being resurected to everlasting shame .

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[tailgator]

You are not reading that passage very carefully.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you think that this passage corresponds to Ezekiel 37, Daniel 7 and Revelation 20 exactly? Where do Ezekiel 37 and Daniel 7 say anything about anyone being resurrected unto damnation at the same time others are resurrected to life (presumably eternal life)?


Revelation 20:7-9 happens after the thousand years. Don't you believe Christ comes before the thousand years? Do you believe that Ezekiel 38-39 happens before or after the thousand years?


And how will that happen in light of what it says will happen when Christ returns in passages like these?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

This land you're talking about Israel supposedly inheriting will be burned up when Jesus comes, so that makes it impossible for them to inherit that land unless you were talking about the new earth.

Do you agree the kingdom of the beast ,under heaven is consumed and then given to the saints as Daniel shows?
Yes or no?

Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[tailgator]

You are not reading that passage very carefully.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How do you think that this passage corresponds to Ezekiel 37, Daniel 7 and Revelation 20 exactly? Where do Ezekiel 37 and Daniel 7 say anything about anyone being resurrected unto damnation at the same time others are resurrected to life (presumably eternal life)?


Revelation 20:7-9 happens after the thousand years. Don't you believe Christ comes before the thousand years? Do you believe that Ezekiel 38-39 happens before or after the thousand years?


And how will that happen in light of what it says will happen when Christ returns in passages like these?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

This land you're talking about Israel supposedly inheriting will be burned up when Jesus comes, so that makes it impossible for them to inherit that land unless you were talking about the new earth.

The land Israel inherits will recover from the war which consumes it long before Gog comes against resurected Israel 1000 years after that war.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And that's what happens sometimes when someone assumes nonsense to begin with. They add yet more nonsense to it in order to get the initial nonsense to supposedly work. I guess all the animals will get moved underground as well? Why not? If they can fit on an an ark they should be able to fit underground somewhere. If your understanding of 2 Peter 3:10-12 was correct to begin with, you should be able to make it work without having to add absurd nonsense to it in order to get it to seemingly work. Keeping in mind, unlike Amils, you have a thousand year era following when 2 Peter 3:10-12 is meaning, to fulfill, and they don't.

But even so, their position regarding 2 Peter 3:10-12 is just as nonsensical as yours is, but in a different way.

You need to put your money where your mouth is or shut up. I'm tired of you making claims without backing them up. If our interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12, then tell me how that passage should be interpreted. You can't be taken seriously by claiming that his interpretation and Amils interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12 is nonsense without even showing how it should be interpreted. Talk about nonsense! So, how do you interpret the passage exactly?

Matthew 25 records that Christ is returning and when He does, He will then sit upon the throne of His glory. Accept Amils have no place for Him to return, they have the entire planet engulfed in flames instead. This sheep and goats judgment is a major issue for them since it has to be taking place on the earth except they insist Christ never sets foot back on the earth until after the great white throne judgment has been fulfilled, except that the sheep and goats judgment couldn't possibly be meaning after the great white throne judgment has been fulfilled.

Where do they think Christ is returning to in Matthew 25? The moon? Mars perhaps? Heaven? Umm, as to the latter, He just left there when Matthew 25:31 is meaning. He is then going to do a u turn instead?

Using your logic, there is no way to make any sense of this verse:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Clearly, it's possible for someone to sit on a throne to judge people somewhere besides heaven and earth since that is exactly what this verse portrays. So, why is it that you're trying to say that it's impossible for Matthew 25:31-46, which portrays Jesus sitting on a throne to judge people, to take place anywhere except on earth? That same logic would not allow Revelation 20:11-15 to take place anywhere else but on earth, either. So, there's clearly something seriously wrong with the logic that you are applying to Matthew 25:31-46.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory to WHERE??? The Moon, Mars, Heaven? Where???

It doesn't say where it takes place. Can you admit that or are you too prideful? All we know from scripture is that Jesus will come and meet us "in the air" (1 Thess 4:14-17). If He was coming down to the earth, as we know it, then why wouldn't we just meet Him on earth instead of "in the air"?

These are not difficult questions to answer if one is sticking to what the text says.

Amils need the entire planet to be engulfed in flames, that way Premil can't be true.

All you need to do to prove otherwise is present your argument of what 2 Peter 3:10-12 means. Can you please do that or would you rather just keep making claims that you don't bother backing up?

You OTOH also need the entire planet to be engulfed in flames for some reason or another, but then insist Premil is still true, regardless.

LOL. He doesn't need that to be the case, but he is honest enough to acknowledge that is what 2 Peter 3:10-12 clearly indicates. But, he's not honest enough to acknowledge that no mortal can survive what is described in that passage when it is taken literally.