The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[uncle silas]

John included himself in all the chapter, the good, the bad, the ugly. He wrote inclusively, saying, "we".

Are you hoping to disprove that someone may walk consistently in the Spirit? Why would you want to do that?

Much love!

It's not a case of trying to prove that, just the reality of every human being. As a Baptist minister of 50 years stated:
''If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the reality of which escapes us all''
I always prefer honest reality to ''pat statements'' that are no ones reality. I was raised in a church where ''pat statements were reeled off pat.

 

[marks]

It's not a case of trying to prove that, just the reality of every human being. As a Baptist minister of 50 years stated:
''If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the reality of which escapes us all''
I always prefer honest reality to ''pat statements'' that are no ones reality. I was raised in a church where ''pat statements were reeled off pat.

I simply tell you the truth of what I've seen God do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When I was a young christian, every so often I would come before God in earnest repentance of my shortcomings before him. After I did that, I felt a temporary state of apparent sinlessness, a completely clean conscience, as you mentioned, but it never lasted for long!

In the time I've mentioned, it was about 5 weeks or so. I don't remember the dates. What I remember is the very moment it began, and the very moment it ended.

That time of apparent sinlessness, the clean conscience . . . I think perhaps it was connected to an absolute trust in God's forgiveness and acceptance, would that be fair to say?

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

I simply tell you the truth of what I've seen God do.

Much love!

As sin is transgression of the law, and may I assume you would include Christ's literal commands in that. How many people do you know who perfectly obey the letter of the TC, all Christ's commands in the gospels, and the second greatest commandment in thought, word and deed?

 

[marks]

No marks. I do not believe it's possible to be free from sin.

Are you able to focus on God's love for you, and the redemtion He's purchased for you, and think of some Scripture, or maybe sing a hymn to yourself, or outloud, to pray for someone, to pray thanks to God, all the while trusting that He will keep you from sin, for maybe 5 minutes' time?

If having done that, are you able to repeat that exercise for maybe another 5 minutes?

I think by trusting in God fully and completely for everything, this ushers us into walking in the Spirit, where we do not sin. But we get triggered in our flesh, and distracted back into it, so easily! But not as easily as we once did! At least, that's my goal. So far so good!

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

Are you able to focus on God's love for you, and the redemtion He's purchased for you, and think of some Scripture, or maybe sing a hymn to yourself, or outloud, to pray for someone, to pray thanks to God, all the while trusting that He will keep you from sin, for maybe 5 minutes' time?

If having done that, are you able to repeat that exercise for maybe another 5 minutes?

I think by trusting in God fully and completely for everything, this ushers us into walking in the Spirit, where we do not sin. But we get triggered in our flesh, and distracted back into it, so easily! But not as easily as we once did! At least, that's my goal. So far so good!

Much love!

May I give you a list of what it would take to be sinless? You would have to perfectly obey the folllowing without slip/no deviation at all. It is only a sample list, an exhaustive one would take far too long:


Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Do you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to us, persecute or harass us?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

 

[marks]

As sin is transgression of the law, and may I assume you would include Christ's literal commands in that. How many people do you know who perfectly obey the letter of the TC, all Christ's commands in the gospels, and the second greatest commandment in thought, word and deed?

For about 5 weeks' time, so far as I was aware. And it seemed I was pretty aware of things. More so than not in that place, I'd say!

But the commands, you do understand, that in loving God and loving others, all that needs be done is done? You needn't try to catalog your behavior and thoughts according to the lists of commandments. Walking in the Spirit all will be done. Nothing wrong will be done. You needn't concern yourself, only, should you find you are doing or leaving undone what you shouldn't, then you can know for certainty that's not the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

For about 5 weeks' time, so far as I was aware. And it seemed I was pretty aware of things. More so than not in that place, I'd say!

But the commands, you do understand, that in loving God and loving others, all that needs be done is done? You needn't try to catalog your behavior and thoughts according to the lists of commandments. Walking in the Spirit all will be done. Nothing wrong will be done. You needn't concern yourself, only, should you find you are doing or leaving undone what you shouldn't, then you can know for certainty that's not the Spirit.

Much love!

You believe you were sinless for five weeks?

 

[uncle silas]

It's a big subject and for me if I overthink it I will get lost in the weeds. As I understand this, the Law was weak through the flesh (that is speaking of the old covenant which came with a curse).....but the new covenant, which still fulfills the Law, now enables us to keep the Law through the Spirit, and not trying to keep it through the flesh. But we are not under the curse of the Law (condemnation/death)....as long as we don't abuse this grace....by using it as a license or cloak for sin......because scripture says to the believer that God is not mocked, if a man sows to the flesh he will from the flesh reap destruction but if he sows to the Spirit he will (from the spirit) reap eternal life. That's how I understand this in a nutshell.

The new way of the Spirit (as opposed to the old way of the letter) means that the law is written on our conscience and we serve in the new way of the Spirit, having His help now, and our conscience also being unctioned and guided by Him (although our conscience also needs to be instructed out of the law - all scripture is profitable for instruction, correction, reproof, etc....washing of the water of the word).

There is a tendency to swing the pendulum either too far one way or the other, but I believe we need to have a balanced understanding.

Yes, the law is weak through the flesh. But it goes further than that. According to Paul, sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law if we live under it. If we believe lack of obedience to the law can jeopardise our Christianity, we must live under it mustn’t we?



Yes, applicable law is now in our conscience, it is written in our minds and placed on our hearts. Meaning, in our minds we know how God wants us to live and in our hearts we want to live that way(the flesh is another matter). You only get a saviour from sin because this has happened.

Our conscience needs to be instructed out of the law. Do you mean the written law?

According to Paul, we no longer have a law written in ink, but one written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3)



I agree with a balanced understanding

 

[marks]

You believe you were sinless for five weeks?

No, I'm not saying that. I don't believe us humans have the necessary qualifications to say such things. Paul certainly wouldn't have!

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

From the NLT:

3 As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. 4 My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide. 5 So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due.

What I believe is that the influence of my flesh was put away from me for that time, during which, without the triggering of the flesh, that often causes us to distrust God and therefore stop walking in the Spirit, that didn't happen, and I walked in the Spirit with consistency for that time.

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

No, I'm not saying that. I don't believe us humans have the necessary qualifications to say such things. Paul certainly wouldn't have!

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

From the NLT:

3 As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. 4 My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide. 5 So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due.

What I believe is that the influence of my flesh was put away from me for that time, during which, without the triggering of the flesh, that often causes us to distrust God and therefore stop walking in the Spirit, that didn't happen, and I walked in the Spirit with consistency for that time.

Much love!

We only sin in our flesh. If you believe your flesh was put away from you for five weeks, why are you not stating you believe you were sinless for five weeks. You could do that on the authority of the bible, as we only sin in our flesh

 

[marks]

If we believe lack of obedience to the law can jeopardise our Christianity, we must live under it mustn’t we?

That's the net result, I think! If you believe your reconciliation to God may be removed due to your bad behavior, then of necessity you will have to live according to a balance sheet of good and bad, which is a faith-killer.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

By the very same faith that brings justification also brings "access by faith into this grace wherein we stand."

What is this passage telling us?

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

That's the net result, I think! If you believe your reconciliation to God may be removed due to your bad behavior, then of necessity you will have to live according to a balance sheet of good and bad, which is a faith-killer.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

By the very same faith that brings justification also brings "access by faith into this grace wherein we stand."

What is this passage telling us?

Much love!

Just what it says

 

[marks]

We only sin in our flesh. If you believe your flesh was put away from you for five weeks, why are you not stating you believe you were sinless for five weeks. You could do that on the authority of the bible, as we only sin in our flesh

I'm not a fit judge, not even of myself. Am I of the opinion that I walked in the Spirit night and day for those weeks? Yes. Is my opinion the final authority on the matter? No. Am I instructed to defer such things to Jesus, given He has the true knowledge? Yes. Is this my concern then? No.

Only that right now, this moment, whichever moment it may be, I'm to trust in God, and care for those around me, whomever God is leading me to care for.

I've become much more focused on those fleshy triggers, and that helps immensely.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Just what it says

Then you'll see what I mean. The same faith by which we are saved is the same faith by which we walk in the Spirit. That faith being that in Christ we are forever and fully reconciled to God, our sins forgiven, and now we are family.

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

I'm not a fit judge, not even of myself. Am I of the opinion that I walked in the Spirit night and day for those weeks? Yes. Is my opinion the final authority on the matter? No. Am I instructed to defer such things to Jesus, given He has the true knowledge? Yes. Is this my concern then? No.

Only that right now, this moment, whichever moment it may be, I'm to trust in God, and care for those around me, whomever God is leading me to care for.

I've become much more focused on those fleshy triggers, and that helps immensely.

Much love!

OK, so you are not a fit judge as to whether the flesh was put away for five weeks

 

[uncle silas]

Then you'll see what I mean. The same faith by which we are saved is the same faith by which we walk in the Spirit. That faith being that in Christ we are forever and fully reconciled to God, our sins forgiven, and now we are family.

Much love!

So when we do not follow after the Spirit, but succumb to the flesh, as we all do at times, are we still in a saved state when we do that?

 

[marks]

OK, so you are not a fit judge as to whether the flesh was put away for five weeks

And you believe this impossible, correct?

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

Then you'll see what I mean. The same faith by which we are saved is the same faith by which we walk in the Spirit. That faith being that in Christ we are forever and fully reconciled to God, our sins forgiven, and now we are family.

Much love!

BTW, I think much of this subject comes down to the level of law we are conscious of. Some people only have a shallow understanding of the TC for example. I have often seen this. So, they may say they fully obey the letter of those commands, yet Paul stated to born again Christians the letter of the TC kills. Would you agree with that?
When I responded to an altar call at the age of ten, the most noticeable difference in my life then was, I became aware/conscious of my shortcomings before God in a very real and profound way. It was, a cut off if you like from how I had lived before that. When I told fibs(as kids do) I felt bad, if I had unkind thoughts about others I felt bad too. I was conscious I didn't love others as I should. If I got angry I felt bad. Before I responded to an altar call it was just different, I did feel bad about some things at times, but not as I did once I asked Christ into my life. I often wonder, if all christians feel bad about those kind of things, or just brush them off.
One woman who insisted the law must be obeyed told me thoughts were trivial and not covered by Torah. That's just an example

 

[uncle silas]

And you believe this impossible, correct?

Much love!

If we hold the law to the pristene level it is set at, no one would go five weeks seeing it fully, without any deviation whatsoever followed in their life. Or, I will put it another way for you. If we perfectly followed after the Holy Spirit for five weeks, and the flesh had no influence whatsoever in our lives during that time, we would perfectly obey/see pertfectly reflected in our lives, without slip the letter of all applicable law, for following after the Holy Spirit does not lead to sin