Thoughts on Christian Mysticism and Contemplative Practice

[Lizbeth]

Formulas, methods, gimmicks and rituals are not of God, they are of the flesh and the evil one. We are to be led by the SPIRIT. Jesus never healed the same way twice as recorded in scripture....if He had continued using the same "method" that worked the first time He wouldn't have been able to heal again. Instead He simply and always followed/obeyed the leading of His Father in heaven in each instance.....as the scripture says, He only did what He saw the Father doing.

SIMPLY let your yes be yes and your no be no....ANYTHING MORE THAN THIS IS FROM THE EVIL ONE.

2Co 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

Formulas, methods, gimmicks and rituals are not of God, they are of the flesh and the evil one.

Is that a fact?
Seems like an over-reaction to me. Probably based on fear of the unknown.

- How should water baptism be done?
- What about the bread and cup remembrance of the passion of Christ?
- Order of worship and liturgies?
- The baptism with the Holy Spirit?
- The public reading of scripture?
- Meeting together in the same building weekly? (or more often)
- Daily devotions?
- The prayer closet?

Are these "Formulas, methods, gimmicks and rituals [that are] are not of God, they are of the flesh and the evil one"?

I admire your zeal, but it seems a bit misdirected. Who is the enemy?

[

 

[RedFan]

Jesus never healed the same way twice as recorded in scripture....if He had continued using the same "method" that worked the first time He wouldn't have been able to heal again.

Where are you getting this notion that healing methods were all one-offs, impossible to duplicate?

 

[St. SteVen]

Where are you getting this notion that healing methods were all one-offs, impossible to duplicate?

I want @Lizbeth to answer, but I have one thought. (more later if need be)
Jesus didn't use a "single" method for healing. If we study Jesus' healing of the blind
we find quite an array of Father-directed "methods" used.

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Matthew 11:1-6 NIV
After Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples,
he went on from there to teach and preach in the towns of Galilee.[a]
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples
3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
4 Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see:
5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[b] are cleansed,
the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor.
6 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spirit-led practice. (meditation)

(speak out loud)
The blind receive sight,
the lame walk,
those who have leprosy
are cleansed,
the deaf hear,
the dead are raised,
and the good news
is proclaimed to the poor.
(repeat)

[ cc: @Chadrho

 

[Lizbeth]

Is that a fact?
Seems like an over-reaction to me. Probably based on fear of the unknown.

- How should water baptism be done?
- What about the bread and cup remembrance of the passion of Christ?
- Order of worship and liturgies?
- The baptism with the Holy Spirit?
- The public reading of scripture?
- Meeting together in the same building weekly? (or more often)
- Daily devotions?
- The prayer closet?

Are these "Formulas, methods, gimmicks and rituals [that are] are not of God, they are of the flesh and the evil one"?

I admire your zeal, but it seems a bit misdirected. Who is the enemy?

[

There is a way that seemeth right to man but leads to death. Wisdom of the flesh and the world does not lead to life...only God's wisdom does, and His ways are not man's ways.

And it's always for our good to just yield to God's conviction and not resist or attack it. The simplicity of Christ...is freeing and unburdensome.

 

[Lizbeth]

Matthew 11:1-6 NIV
After Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples,
he went on from there to teach and preach in the towns of Galilee.[a]
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples
3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
4 Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see:
5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[b] are cleansed,
the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor.
6 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spirit-led practice. (meditation)

(speak out loud)
The blind receive sight,
the lame walk,
those who have leprosy
are cleansed,
the deaf hear,
the dead are raised,
and the good news
is proclaimed to the poor.
(repeat)

[ cc: @Chadrho

Spirit led biblical meditation is SIMPLY mulling over His word prayerfully and seeking His illumination.

 

[St. SteVen]

The simplicity of Christ...is freeing and unburdensome.

The rigidness of @Lizbeth is oppressive and suffocating. Loosen up sister. - LOL

The experience of the journey is as vital as the destination. We have options.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Spirit led biblical meditation is SIMPLY mulling over His word prayerfully and seeking His illumination.

Is that NOT what I have done?
Where did my post come from?

Caution.

Matthew 12:31 NIV
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven,
but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:24-28 NIV
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said,
“It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,
“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined,
and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out?
So then, they will be your judges.
28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons,
then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

[

 

[Lizbeth]

Is that NOT what I have done?
Where did my post come from?

Caution.

Matthew 12:31 NIV
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven,
but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:24-28 NIV
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said,
“It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,
“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined,
and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out?
So then, they will be your judges.
28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons,
then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

[

I don't know...if it is why can you not just agree instead of being defensive.....hmmmm? ;) It's not in our own best interests to resist the washing of the water of the word, but let it do it's work because it truly is for our good.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't know...if it is why can you not just agree instead of being defensive.....hmmmm? ;)

Agree with what?
You were the one that came on the topic with guns-a-blazing.

Formulas, methods, gimmicks and rituals are not of God, they are of the flesh and the evil one.

Not of God? Of the flesh and the evil one?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

No guns a-blazing. I raised a point, that's all, and hope you will consider it.

 

[St. SteVen]

No guns a-blazing. I raised a point, that's all, and hope you will consider it.

Well...
Your point was that Christian Mysticism and Contemplative Practice are "of the evil one." (devil)
No guns-a-blazing? - LOL



[

 

[Lizbeth]

We need "ears to hear" what the spirit is saying with that. Trying to serve or worship God in ways that proceed from the carnal mind of man (flesh nature) as opposed to the spirit of God......are from the evil one. Jesus is telling us to worship/serve Him in simplicity without all the add-ons and gimmicks and nonsense which only really serves to keep people entertained. The devil exploits such things as opportunities to lead people astray. God considers it to be strange fire.

 

[St. SteVen]

We need "ears to hear" what the spirit is saying with that. Trying to serve or worship God in ways that proceed from the carnal mind of man (flesh nature) as opposed to the spirit of God......are from the evil one. Jesus is telling us to worship/serve Him in simplicity without all the add-ons and gimmicks and nonsense which only really serves to keep people entertained. The devil exploits such things as opportunities to lead people astray. God considers it to be strange fire.

Tribalism. (irrational fear)

Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ
A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there
...happen. What they really want is for everyone to JOIN their doctrinal tribe so that UNITY will happen. Basically unity through division. Tribalism. You are in if you agree, and out if you don't. I think it is wrong to label that as unity, as if tribalism is a virtue. I think unity of the...

[

 

[Hepzibah]

I agree that there is a danger of eastern mysticism spilling over into Christian mysticism, which is nothing but being sensitive to hearing the voice of God, obeying what He says, and becoming more deeply intimate with Him.

This is simplicity itself, much more than studying biblical doctrine, and all that goes along with the mental understanding of who God is, and can totally take the place of a deep relationship with Him and which we are all in danger of as we go along. That pathway leads to prideful self-rightousness and cultic behaviour.

Eastern Orthodoxy has erred imo with the 'Jesus Prayer' which they believe will lead them to Theosis (holiness) if practiced enough. There are other gimmicks that are used by others.

True Christian mysticism will help us by showing us the pattern laid out in scripture, and through types, and shadows, of the 'pathway to holiness' that saints have followed in the past but is not popular now because it says that suffering is necessary. Indeed it is.

So it is a mistake to write it off because the devil uses the term to lead people astray. Discernment is needed which comes only through obedience even to the very little things.

 

[Lizbeth]

Tribalism. (irrational fear)

Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ
A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there
...happen. What they really want is for everyone to JOIN their doctrinal tribe so that UNITY will happen. Basically unity through division. Tribalism. You are in if you agree, and out if you don't. I think it is wrong to label that as unity, as if tribalism is a virtue. I think unity of the...

[

Departing from the simplicity of Christ CAUSES divisions/tribalism.

 

[St. SteVen]

True Christian mysticism will help us by showing us the pattern laid out in scripture, and through types, and shadows, of the 'pathway to holiness' that saints have followed in the past but is not popular now because it says that suffering is necessary. Indeed it is.

Could you unpack that a bit?
What is "True Christian mysticism"?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Departing from the simplicity of Christ CAUSES divisions/tribalism.

What?
Your definition of "the simplicity of Christ" is tribalism.
Which you are causing. (your way, or the highway)

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Lizbeth]

I agree that there is a danger of eastern mysticism spilling over into Christian mysticism, which is nothing but being sensitive to hearing the voice of God, obeying what He says, and becoming more deeply intimate with Him.

This is simplicity itself, much more than studying biblical doctrine, and all that goes along with the mental understanding of who God is, and can totally take the place of a deep relationship with Him and which we are all in danger of as we go along. That pathway leads to prideful self-rightousness and cultic behaviour.

Eastern Orthodoxy has erred imo with the 'Jesus Prayer' which they believe will lead them to Theosis (holiness) if practiced enough. There are other gimmicks that are used by others.

True Christian mysticism will help us by showing us the pattern laid out in scripture, and through types, and shadows, of the 'pathway to holiness' that saints have followed in the past but is not popular now because it says that suffering is necessary. Indeed it is.

So it is a mistake to write it off because the devil uses the term to lead people astray. Discernment is needed which comes only through obedience even to the very little things.

Prayer and prayerfulness, entering His presence...and meditating on the word.....anything more than this is from the evil one. The devil sure is in the details. And we do need to test the spirits by the word of God so we need to have the scriptures tucked away in our heart. We are to bring our thoughts into captivity to the obedience of Christ and His word. Our thoughts simply and humbly confined to His sheepfold is how I think of it....things always starts to veer off when we begin adding our own thoughts and terminology. Though His sheepfold is not really confining actually, since there is a whole universe of truth waiting to be illuminated to us within it.