Romans 11:25 - Partially blinded

[CTK]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans. Personally, I do not feel I have a very good understanding of this verse and would like to learn what others believe it is telling us.

Examples only:

1) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah in order to bring His Word to the Gentiles,

2) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah but they would continue to worship Him (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but not Jesus),

3) that God gave them or allowed them to follow their heart / minds, etc., of not accepting Jesus... Sort of like He did for Pharoah...

4) that God divinely prevented them from recognizing their Messiah - but only up to the cross. After His resurrection, their eyes were no longer "blinded" and they could clearly see that Jesus, who was resurrected on the third day, and was visible to all, could not see / understand that Jesus was indeed their Messiah.

I am sure there are even more views or opinons that what is mentioned above... so I look forward to seeing them.

 

[Keraz]

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans

It is fairly straightforward.
Paul is talking to us, the Christian Church, about the Jewish people, who he incorrectly calls Israel. {They are members of the twelve tribes, but after they separated; about a thousand years BC, they are referred to as the House of Judah and the other ten tribes, called the House of Israel, remain lost to history up to today. But God knows who they are; Amos 9:9 and He sent Jesus to save them. Matthew 15:24

We Christians ARE the House of Israel, WE ARE the overcomes for God, His faithful people, saved by the Blood of Jesus.
The Jews have the same chance as we have, to believe and be saved, but because of their curse upon themselves; Matthew 27:25, the majority won't, as Paul says:......only a remnant will be saved. Romane 9:27

 

[rwb]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans. Personally, I do not feel I have a very good understanding of this verse and would like to learn what others believe it is telling us.

Examples only:

1) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah in order to bring His Word to the Gentiles,

2) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah but they would continue to worship Him (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but not Jesus),

3) that God gave them or allowed them to follow their heart / minds, etc., of not accepting Jesus... Sort of like He did for Pharoah...

4) that God divinely prevented them from recognizing their Messiah - but only up to the cross. After His resurrection, their eyes were no longer "blinded" and they could clearly see that Jesus, who was resurrected on the third day, and was visible to all, could not see / understand that Jesus was indeed their Messiah.

I am sure there are even more views or opinons that what is mentioned above... so I look forward to seeing them.

To read the verse as though it says once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in then the blindness to Israel shall be lifted, is reading our doctrine into the passage. Paul tells only that blindness in part had come to Israel. Why is the blindness only in part? Because there has always been a saved remnant from Israel that were never in blindness.

The question that challenged me is how can all Israel that shall be saved be speaking of ethnic Jews since their fullness comes from Gentiles being grafted into the same good olive tree of faith with them? Why do we assume Paul saying the blindness in part will then be lifted? That's not what he says. He says only that Israel is in partial blindness. It is Paul's desire for his kinsmen and us to understand "this mystery" that has been made known since the advent of Christ. The mystery is that Gentiles of faith and Jews of faith together is how "all Israel" shall be saved. Salvation through Christ is not only to Jews, but Gentiles too, and when the last Gentile is saved, the seventh trumpet will sound the 'mystery' of God finished, and that time should be no longer.

Romans 11:25-26 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

When the last Gentile to be saved together with Jews of faith, the Kingdom of God will be complete as the Gospel is sent unto all the nations of the earth and whosoever believes the Gospel has everlasting life through Him. Then all "Israel of God" shall be saved. Not an ethnic people only, but all people of faith as one body in Christ. There will not be more time given this earth whereby man must be saved. The end of time has come and the only time remaining will not be for being saved but will be for Satan's "little season."

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[Lambano]

The name "Israel" comes from the Hebrew "he rassles with God"; see Genesis 32:28. I agree with @rwb that "All Israel" here and in Galatians 6:15-16 is a synecdoche for "all God's people" (whoever they may be), regardless of ethnicity.

What I find instructive is verses 28 and 29:

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Regardless of whether they accept the Gospel, they are still loved by God.

And the following verses:

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Oh my. Their disobedience has led to mercy for us Gentiles; think about what this partial blindness has done. They may also receive mercy for their disobedience on account of God's mercy to us. We are not told how that's going to play out for individuals; we are told to use this as a guide to our mindset. And we are told very specifically in verse 20 not to become arrogant, which historically we have violated all too many times.

 

[CTK]

To read the verse as though it says once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in then the blindness to Israel shall be lifted, is reading our doctrine into the passage. Paul tells only that blindness in part had come to Israel. Why is the blindness only in part? Because there has always been a saved remnant from Israel that were never in blindness.

The question that challenged me is how can all Israel that shall be saved be speaking of ethnic Jews since their fullness comes from Gentiles being grafted into the same good olive tree of faith with them? Why do we assume Paul saying the blindness in part will then be lifted? That's not what he says. He says only that Israel is in partial blindness. It is Paul's desire for his kinsmen and us to understand "this mystery" that has been made known since the advent of Christ. The mystery is that Gentiles of faith and Jews of faith together is how "all Israel" shall be saved. Salvation through Christ is not only to Jews, but Gentiles too, and when the last Gentile is saved, the seventh trumpet will sound the 'mystery' of God finished, and that time should be no longer.

Romans 11:25-26 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

When the last Gentile to be saved together with Jews of faith, the Kingdom of God will be complete as the Gospel is sent unto all the nations of the earth and whosoever believes the Gospel has everlasting life through Him. Then all "Israel of God" shall be saved. Not an ethnic people only, but all people of faith as one body in Christ. There will not be more time given this earth whereby man must be saved. The end of time has come and the only time remaining will not be for being saved but will be for Satan's "little season."

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Very nice and thank you. If you do not mind….

I am still confused to what is meant by “blindness in part…”

And here is how I am looking at this: when Jesus went to the cross, there was not one Jew who believed He was their Messiah- not one. After the Sabbath, they went to His grave site to prepare His body only to find He was not there. Everyone of His disciples mourned and began to return to their earlier professions- fishermen, etc.

This seems to tell me that EVERY Jew was “blinded.” There was no “remnant” after the cross UNTIL He shown Himself as our risen Lord.

So, did God blind all Jews until after the resurrection? It certainly was in His plan of salvation to go to the cross and if not ONE believed He was their Messiah until they saw Him resurrected, then it was a complete and divine blindness to ALL Jews.


Therefore, does this mean that no Jew was “blinded” AFTER He was resurrected? Now, they could make a choice to believe or not. I don’t believe God would select those of His people AFTER the cross to continue to be blinded. He would allow each to make that decision on their own.

So, if that is true, then the “blindness” was divinely placed on them up to the cross and then removed. But, then what do we do with the latter statement that tells us in Romans that “blindness in part UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles is removed..?”

This would seem to indicate that there IS still a “divine” blindness being kept on the Jews (not all). But why would some Jews come to accept Jesus and others be kept in darkness until…

So in this case, God divinely made ALL Jews blinded before the cross, and allowed some to see Him and accept Him as their Messiah after the resurrection, but still keep many Jews “blinded” for another 2000 years… so, if they are still divinely blinded, then that is not their fault and “ALL Israel will be saved after He removes their blindness.

And that might indicate that God would save His people who kept the faith in worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but we’re divinely kept blinded to Jesus- in this manner it might fit the term “blinded in part.”

I don’t know if the above was clear enough to comment on, but I hope some might cut through the confusion and offer their opinion.

 

[CTK]

The name "Israel" comes from the Hebrew "he rassles with God"; see Genesis 32:28. I agree with @rwb that "All Israel" here and in Galatians 6:15-16 is a synecdoche for "all God's people" (whoever they may be), regardless of ethnicity.

What I find instructive is verses 28 and 29:

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Regardless of whether they accept the Gospel, they are still loved by God.

And the following verses:

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Oh my. Their disobedience has led to mercy for us Gentiles. They will receive mercy for their disobedience on account of God's mercy to us. We are not told how that's going to play out for individuals; we are told to use this as a guide to our mindset. And we are told very specifically in verse 20 not to become arrogant, which historically we have violated all too many times.

Very true! But God loves ALL… and we are all sinners. But, if He is still “blinding” them in part (whatever that might mean), then ALL Israel will be saved… but what then do we do with the Gentiles over the past 2000 years who did not accept Jesus?

Talk about a “mystery”!

 

[Lambano]

Very true! But God loves ALL… and we are all sinners.

True. But God's relationship with Israel is special and different from God's general love for all. It is similar to how you can love your neighbor and desire good things for them and be willing to give of your own time and resources to help them and maybe even be willing to die to protect them, but the love you have for your own family is ... special.

(I note that Paul used the "E-word" in verse 28. This verse indicates what "election" is - and what it is not.)

 

[MatthewG]

Eventually Paul proclaims the whole world at that time heard the Gospel (somewhere in Colossians), would that be the fullness of the gentiles, and them knowing whats going on covering the wrath of God, and the Day of LORD, in which was to come upon the nation of Israel? There was only 40 year span before this took place.

Romans 9-11 is pretty heavy concerning how Israel had abandoned God, and decided to murder the Son of God. Eventually this would lead to their destruction.


Many people may say "God destroyed his country? !! How awful!" It's not awful when you understand the covenant that was made with from blessing to cursing, to divorcing.

 

[rwb]

Very nice and thank you. If you do not mind….

I am still confused to what is meant by “blindness in part…”

And here is how I am looking at this: when Jesus went to the cross, there was not one Jew who believed He was their Messiah- not one. After the Sabbath, they went to His grave site to prepare His body only to find He was not there. Everyone of His disciples mourned and began to return to their earlier professions- fishermen, etc.

This seems to tell me that EVERY Jew was “blinded.” There was no “remnant” after the cross UNTIL He shown Himself as our risen Lord.

So, did God blind all Jews until after the resurrection? It certainly was in His plan of salvation to go to the cross and if not ONE believed He was their Messiah until they saw Him resurrected, then it was a complete and divine blindness to ALL Jews.


Therefore, does this mean that no Jew was “blinded” AFTER He was resurrected? Now, they could make a choice to believe or not. I don’t believe God would select those of His people AFTER the cross to continue to be blinded. He would allow each to make that decision on their own.

So, if that is true, then the “blindness” was divinely placed on them up to the cross and then removed. But, then what do we do with the latter statement that tells us in Romans that “blindness in part UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles is removed..?”

This would seem to indicate that there IS still a “divine” blindness being kept on the Jews (not all). But why would some Jews come to accept Jesus and others be kept in darkness until…

So in this case, God divinely made ALL Jews blinded before the cross, and allowed some to see Him and accept Him as their Messiah after the resurrection, but still keep many Jews “blinded” for another 2000 years… so, if they are still divinely blinded, then that is not their fault and “ALL Israel will be saved after He removes their blindness.

And that might indicate that God would save His people who kept the faith in worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but we’re divinely kept blinded to Jesus- in this manner it might fit the term “blinded in part.”

I don’t know if the above was clear enough to comment on, but I hope some might cut through the confusion and offer their opinion.

Blindness is only in part because Israel has always had some faithful within her. According to Paul there has always been a "remnant" saved not only from days of Old, but also of Jews living in the days of Paul.

Romans 11:2-5 (KJV) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Israel of Old by revelation through the Law and Prophets have always known of a Messiah that would come to save them. They could not know His personal name, Jesus, before His coming and being given that name, but the nation knew enough through the writings of the Prophets and the Law that they were without excuse for rejecting Christ when He came. Many Jews indeed did receive Him as the promised One who was to come when He began His ministry on the earth. We read of many Jews professing Christ to be the one they long awaited for. The New Testament especially is replete with examples of Jews who believed on Him through the signs and miracles He performed before He was crucified.

 

[Keraz]

The whole line of legitimate heirs of the Mosaic and Abrahamic covenants are not the unbelieving natural descendants of Abraham: that is: ethnic Jewish Israel, 1 Corinthians 10:18, but exclusively a spiritual Israel, the children of God. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. Romans 9:8 Be they Jew or Gentile Christians.

The Israel "of the promise," the new community of faith in Christ, or the true church, is not restricted just to believing Jews. Paul states in Romans 9:24 that God calls all believing Christians; the church of Christ, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles. He supports this conclusion with an appeal to Hosea 2:23 and where God makes promises of restoration to the ten apostate tribes of Israel who had virtually become like their heathen captors in the Assyrian exile. Thus Paul explicitly applies the eschatological fulfillment of Hosea's restoration promises for Israel to the church of Christ as a whole, consisting of all the 12 tribes of Israel and the Gentiles grafted in, all the true Christian Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16

 

[Marty fox]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans. Personally, I do not feel I have a very good understanding of this verse and would like to learn what others believe it is telling us.

Examples only:

1) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah in order to bring His Word to the Gentiles,

2) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah but they would continue to worship Him (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but not Jesus),

3) that God gave them or allowed them to follow their heart / minds, etc., of not accepting Jesus... Sort of like He did for Pharoah...

4) that God divinely prevented them from recognizing their Messiah - but only up to the cross. After His resurrection, their eyes were no longer "blinded" and they could clearly see that Jesus, who was resurrected on the third day, and was visible to all, could not see / understand that Jesus was indeed their Messiah.

I am sure there are even more views or opinons that what is mentioned above... so I look forward to seeing them.

Point number three is correct.

This doesn’t mean that ethnic Israel will repent they may but not will it means that when the full number of gentiles comes in all Israel (spiritual Israel the church both Jew and gentile) will be saved. Verse 11 of that chapter is a key verse

 

[covenantee]

But God's relationship with Israel is special and different from God's general love for all.

Who are "special" Israel? What identifying characteristics make them special to God?

1. Their DNA
2. Their religion
3. Their culture
4. Their domicile
5. Their faithfulness and obedience to God and His Son
6. Something else

 

[Ronald D Milam]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans. Personally, I do not feel I have a very good understanding of this verse and would like to learn what others believe it is telling us.

Examples only:

1) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah in order to bring His Word to the Gentiles,

No, God Divinely prevented the Nation of Israel from repenting via the Diaspora, not individual Jews, that is why it says IN PART (huge clue) so, since there was no Israel in the land how could they repent? They couldn't until 1948 BUT........it goes even further, they are blinded until the "Fulness of the Gentiles" has come in. Well, what does that mean? It has to be defined, now go back and reread Romans 9-11 those three chapters in full are key. It is al about SERVICE......everyone misses this, so Abraham served God, and we know God hardened Pharoah's heart, and God chose Jacob over Esau, everything that is being mentioned is about SERVICE unto God, thus Paul says explicitly that God is not finished with Israel, He will graft them back into the family tree, but only when the GET THIS......Fulness of the Gentiles [SERVICE] has come full, or only after the Gentile Churches MISSION has been fulfilled.

That is why the Elijah and Moses (IMHO) is sent back JUST BEFORE the DOTL like Malachi 4:5-6 says, to get Israel to repent just before the DOTL or God's Wrath falls. God saved the Gentiles through Israel, and will save Israel through the Church, they will see our actions, hear our Rapture thesis, and see it come to pass. Then Elijah and Moses shows up.

2) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah but they would continue to worship Him (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but not Jesus),

Does not mean that, see above, God calls every man, but God can not call a nation to repentance when they are "Dead Men's Bones". They must needs be REVIVED FIRST (see 1948)

3) that God gave them or allowed them to follow their heart / minds, etc., of not accepting Jesus... Sort of like He did for Pharoah...

You are looking at this as God blinding every Jew, that is just not the case, he only blinded Israel, and God accomplished this by the Diaspora. God never blinded INDIVIDUAL Jews, that's why it says IN PART.

4) that God divinely prevented them from recognizing their Messiah - but only up to the cross. After His resurrection, their eyes were no longer "blinded" and they could clearly see that Jesus, who was resurrected on the third day, and was visible to all, could not see / understand that Jesus was indeed their Messiah.

No, Israel rejected Jesus as the Messiah, they chose Barabbas instead of Jesus, the condemned a righteous man and chose a murderer. God then blinded them because of disobedience, which means He chose another vessel to carry the Gospel unto the whole world, but He will call Israel unto repentance again for His names sake, so His promise to Abraham will be fulfilled. Jesus will rule with Israel via the coming Kingdom Age for 1000 years, on earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans. Personally, I do not feel I have a very good understanding of this verse and would like to learn what others believe it is telling us.

Examples only:

1) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah in order to bring His Word to the Gentiles,

2) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah but they would continue to worship Him (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but not Jesus),

3) that God gave them or allowed them to follow their heart / minds, etc., of not accepting Jesus... Sort of like He did for Pharoah...

4) that God divinely prevented them from recognizing their Messiah - but only up to the cross. After His resurrection, their eyes were no longer "blinded" and they could clearly see that Jesus, who was resurrected on the third day, and was visible to all, could not see / understand that Jesus was indeed their Messiah.

I am sure there are even more views or opinons that what is mentioned above... so I look forward to seeing them.

Israel being blinded in part simply means that the remnant elect of Israel were saved while the rest were blinded (Romans 11:5-7) in order to put God's new covenant plan of salvation into motion. The ones who were blinded in Paul's day were only temporarily blinded, as can be seen here:

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

So, notice here that those who were blinded in Paul's day were not blinded permanently. Paul indicated that they stumbled, but did not fall beyond recovery. That's why he said he hoped to help "save some of them". Even though they had been blinded and cut off of the natural (good) olive tree, they had the opportunity to be grafted back in.

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Paul knew this so that's why he hoped to help save some of them by leading them to repentance and faith in Christ. He knew that them being blinded and cut off was not a permanent situation. It was done in order that salvation would come to the Gentiles who, in turn, would make these cut off Israelites envious of them and want to be saved as well. God put this plan in motion back then and it has continued until now and will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in which I believe will occur when Jesus returns.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Very nice and thank you. If you do not mind….

I am still confused to what is meant by “blindness in part…”

Here is what that means.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

In Paul's day there was a part of Israel that Paul called "a remnant according to the election of grace". The "blindness in part" refers to "the rest that were blinded". Israel was not blinded in full, but rather blinded in part because not all of Israel was blinded as evidenced by the fact that there was "a remnant according to the election of grace".

And here is how I am looking at this: when Jesus went to the cross, there was not one Jew who believed He was their Messiah- not one.

This is clearly false. The disciples believed that and the women who followed Jesus like Mary Magdalene and Salome believed He was the Messiah.

After the Sabbath, they went to His grave site to prepare His body only to find He was not there. Everyone of His disciples mourned and began to return to their earlier professions- fishermen, etc.

This seems to tell me that EVERY Jew was “blinded.” There was no “remnant” after the cross UNTIL He shown Himself as our risen Lord.

So, did God blind all Jews until after the resurrection? It certainly was in His plan of salvation to go to the cross and if not ONE believed He was their Messiah until they saw Him resurrected, then it was a complete and divine blindness to ALL Jews.

This contradicts what Paul said in Romans 11:5-7. He never said that they all were blinded. There was a remnant of saved believers. The rest were blinded.

Therefore, does this mean that no Jew was “blinded” AFTER He was resurrected? Now, they could make a choice to believe or not. I don’t believe God would select those of His people AFTER the cross to continue to be blinded. He would allow each to make that decision on their own.

So, if that is true, then the “blindness” was divinely placed on them up to the cross and then removed. But, then what do we do with the latter statement that tells us in Romans that “blindness in part UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles is removed..?”

Read my post #14 where I explain this.

This would seem to indicate that there IS still a “divine” blindness being kept on the Jews (not all). But why would some Jews come to accept Jesus and others be kept in darkness until…

You are misunderstanding what Paul was saying. He was not saying that some would be blinded and would stay blinded their whole lives. Only part of Israel would be blinded, but it does not mean that they would not have any opportunity to be saved. What God wants is for them to be provoked to jealousy by Gentile believers. You can see in Romans 11:11-14 that this process was in place in Paul's day. I believe that process has continued until today and will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

So in this case, God divinely made ALL Jews blinded before the cross, and allowed some to see Him and accept Him as their Messiah after the resurrection, but still keep many Jews “blinded” for another 2000 years… so, if they are still divinely blinded, then that is not their fault and “ALL Israel will be saved after He removes their blindness.

Ugh. No. Why would God do that? You think He would purposely keep many Jews blinded their whole lives with no opportunity to be saved and would do that for at least 2,000 years and then suddenly save all of them? How does that make any sense? Do you not believe that God wants all people, including all Jews, to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that this has always been the case, including for the last almost 2,000 years? What you're saying would mean God purposely made it so that most Jews could not be saved for the past 2,000 years. I can't accept something like that. The contradicts His character and is a case of taking Romans 11 completely out of context. Why would Paul have said he wanted to help save some of them if none of them who were blinded could be saved? Why would he say that they one day would all be saved when he was just hoping to help save some of them? These are things you have to take into consideration when interpreting Romans 11.

And that might indicate that God would save His people who kept the faith in worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but we’re divinely kept blinded to Jesus- in this manner it might fit the term “blinded in part.”

No. If they rejected Christ, then they were not saved. Again, they were not blinded permanently for the rest of their lives, as evidenced by the fact that Paul hoped to help save some of them. What God wanted is for them to be provoked to jealousy by the salvation of the Gentiles.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The name "Israel" comes from the Hebrew "he rassles with God"; see Genesis 32:28. I agree with @rwb that "All Israel" here and in Galatians 6:15-16 is a synecdoche for "all God's people" (whoever they may be), regardless of ethnicity.

What I find instructive is verses 28 and 29:

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Regardless of whether they accept the Gospel, they are still loved by God.

That is not true. You are misinterpreting those verses. Surely, those who reject Christ and that Christ Himself called hypocrites and snakes (Matthew 23) are not loved by God.

In order to understand what Romans 11:28-29 is saying, you need to look at this passage first:

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Can you see here how Paul differentiates between the "remnant according to the election of grace" ("the election") and "the rest" of Israel who "were blinded"? Keep that in mind when you read this:

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

As concerning the gospel, who are enemies for the Gentiles sakes? All of Israel? No. Paul would not call the saved remnant of Israel of his time "enemies". No, he was referring to the "the rest" of Israel who "were blinded" as being enemies for the Gentiles' sakes. When he said "but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes" he was referring to "the election" that he referred to in verse 7 which referred to the "remnant according to the election of grace" (verse 5). The election (the saved remnant) were "beloved for the father's sakes", not "the rest" who "were blinded".

And the following verses:

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Oh my. Their disobedience has led to mercy for us Gentiles; think about what this partial blindness has done. They may also receive mercy for their disobedience on account of God's mercy to us. We are not told how that's going to play out for individuals; we are told to use this as a guide to our mindset. And we are told very specifically in verse 20 not to become arrogant, which historically we have violated all too many times.

 

[CTK]

Here is what that means.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

In Paul's day there was a part of Israel that Paul called "a remnant according to the election of grace". The "blindness in part" refers to "the rest that were blinded". Israel was not blinded in full, but rather blinded in part because not all of Israel was blinded as evidenced by the fact that there was "a remnant according to the election of grace".



This is clearly false. The disciples believed that and the women who followed Jesus like Mary Magdalene and Salome believed He was the Messiah.

First, thank you for the terrific response... I hope you realize that some of the comments I made were not necessarily my opinion, but instead represented questions that I was trying to solicit responses to... since I do not have the answers. But other comments are clearly mine and I will address them...

This contradicts what Paul said in Romans 11:5-7. He never said that they all were blinded. There was a remnant of saved believers. The rest were blinded.


Read my post #14 where I explain this.


You are misunderstanding what Paul was saying. He was not saying that some would be blinded and would stay blinded their whole lives. Only part of Israel would be blinded, but it does not mean that they would not have any opportunity to be saved. What God wants is for them to be provoked to jealousy by Gentile believers. You can see in Romans 11:11-14 that this process was in place in Paul's day. I believe that process has continued until today and will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

I certainly agree with you.... One of the most misinterpreted series of verses can be found in 2:41-43. Without opening up that extremely large can of worms, I will mention that your comment above reflects exactly what took place AFTER the cross. But I will continue this comment in the next section since it is appropriate to answer along with your comment that "why would God do that?"

Ugh. No. Why would God do that? You think He would purposely keep many Jews blinded their whole lives with no opportunity to be saved and would do that for at least 2,000 years and then suddenly save all of them? How does that make any sense? Do you not believe that God wants all people, including all Jews, to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that this has always been the case, including for the last almost 2,000 years? What you're saying would mean God purposely made it so that most Jews could not be saved for the past 2,000 years. I can't accept something like that. The contradicts His character and is a case of taking Romans 11 completely out of context. Why would Paul have said he wanted to help save some of them if none of them who were blinded could be saved? Why would he say that they one day would all be saved when he was just hoping to help save some of them? These are things you have to take into consideration when interpreting Romans 11.

Ok, I mentioned there was not one ... no not one who truly believed He was the Messiah, the Son of God. Certainly, He had thousands of followers, thousands who witnessed Him raise the dead, heal the blind, walk on water, speak like no other prophet has ever done.... on and on.... but not one of them truly believed He would be resurrected, as He said He would, because He indeed was the Messiah.. the One with God Himself.

The woman would not have gone to the grave sight with herbs and burial rituals if they believed He would rise in 3 days.. Yes, they believed He was a great prophet, rabbi, etc., but He did die.. and they mourned for Him. Not even His disciplies believed He would be raised... they ran to the grave site to see this for themselves.... no one truly believed.....not one. And this was God's plan all along. In the Chapter 2 verses mentioned above, after the cross God would select those of the Jews that He would make as "pottery clay" FROM those Jews who would not accept Him (ceramic clay). As God says in Jeremiah (if I remember correctly) He has the right to make out of the clay (His people) those of pottery clay or not for His purposes. This means, that only certainl Jews (from the beginning of time) had He selected to go forth, ONLY AFTER THE CROSS, to preach the Good News. Most of the Jews after the cross would not accept Him and they would remain "ceramic clay" as their hearts were hardened like ceramic clay and would not accept Him as their Messiah. The point is the "stone" in 2:34 (Messiah) is not an end time event that EVERYONE BELIEVES, rather it was the Messiah who would strike the "feet of iron and clay only," and break them into pieces... not destroy the 4 kingdom image. Jesus came to divide, not to destroy. So, 2:34 is His first coming where He would separate the pottery clay from the ceramic clay and iron that were all confined within the symbolic feet of pagan Rome.

But this, what you call "remnant" did not exist UNTIL AFTER THE CROSS because no one truly believed He was their Messiah. Only after His resurrection would we find those that believed He was the Messiah.. Remember, it did not take long for His disciples to return to their earlier profession as mostly fisherman....

So why would God do this? Because this was His plan from the foundation of the world. It was His plan for His chosen people to be His priests on earth to go out to the world and reveal the One true God - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.. But they did not do that but instead kept Him to themselves.. They would not even interact with the pagans / Gentiles / pigs of the world.. They had the One true God and everyone else was unclean, etc. That is not what God wanted from them. Therefore, His plan was to select those Jews (pottery clay) that would be willing to preach the Good News to the rest of the world... and they certainly succeeded.

So, yes, God sent them out to the entire world to preach the Good News so that ALLL WOULD ACCEPT HIM AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR. Whether you are Jew or Gentile, we all have the exact same opportunity to accept Him... but as you know, billions refuse to accept Him but have turned to other gods. Paul went to the Gentile world to preach the Good News so any and all would be saved... EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT JESUS..... EVERYONE.... BUT THE CHOICE IS OURS TO MAKE. He sent His Holy Spirit to show that ANYONE HAS THE ABILITY TO ASK HIM TO COME INTO THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS AND ACCEPT JESUS AS THEIR LORD AND GIVE THEM ALL THE POWER THEY WOULD EVER NEED TO BE SAVED. The Holy Spirit is available to everyone, anytime, anyplace, etc., One does not have to be in a certain church, a certain denomination, etc., He is there whenever you call upon Him. This is the better covenant offered to both Jew and Gentile.

No. If they rejected Christ, then they were not saved. Again, they were not blinded permanently for the rest of their lives, as evidenced by the fact that Paul hoped to help save some of them. What God wanted is for them to be provoked to jealousy by the salvation of the Gentiles.

No one believed He was their Messiah... it was ONLY after the cross that ALL would be given the choice to accept Him or reject Him.... And please remember the two thieves on the cross.. One would be saved as He believe Jesus was the Messiah (on the cross), while the other did not. It had nothing to do with the fact that they were both thieves (sinners). It was based on the faith in Jesus.

God's plan for the Gentiles was for those of His disciples to go out into the world and preach the Good News... Many would accept Him and many would reject Him - even to this day. But at the right time, the Jews will become jealous of the Gentiles when they come to realize that Jesus was / is their Messiah. There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of Jews that have indeed accepted Jesus, but most of the world's population of some 7- 9 million do not accept Him... In fact, most of those millions are secular and do not practice the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.. They are Jewish nationally but not spiritually.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

First, thank you for the terrific response... I hope you realize that some of the comments I made were not necessarily my opinion, but instead represented questions that I was trying to solicit responses to... since I do not have the answers. But other comments are clearly mine and I will address them...

Yes, I did realize that. So, just take my responses in that context. I was responding to the opinion being shared and not necessarily to what you believe personally.

I certainly agree with you.... One of the most misinterpreted series of verses can be found in 2:41-43. Without opening up that extremely large can of worms, I will mention that your comment above reflects exactly what took place AFTER the cross. But I will continue this comment in the next section since it is appropriate to answer along with your comment that "why would God do that?"

Ok, I mentioned there was not one ... no not one who truly believed He was the Messiah, the Son of God. Certainly, He had thousands of followers, thousands who witnessed Him raise the dead, heal the blind, walk on water, speak like no other prophet has ever done.... on and on.... but not one of them truly believed He would be resurrected, as He said He would, because He indeed was the Messiah.. the One with God Himself.

None of this matters in relation to Romans 11. As I showed in Romans 11:5-7, Paul made it clear that there was a remnant of Israel who were saved and "the rest were blinded". So, at that time not all were blinded regardless of whether or not you think they were all blinded previously. I'm only interested in looking at the context of Romans 11 itself which makes it clear that "blindness in part", which you were questioning the meaning of, simply refers to the fact that part of Israel was blinded with there also being a remnant who were not blinded.

The woman would not have gone to the grave sight with herbs and burial rituals if they believed He would rise in 3 days.. Yes, they believed He was a great prophet, rabbi, etc., but He did die.. and they mourned for Him. Not even His disciplies believed He would be raised... they ran to the grave site to see this for themselves.... no one truly believed.....not one. And this was God's plan all along. In the Chapter 2 verses mentioned above, after the cross God would select those of the Jews that He would make as "pottery clay" FROM those Jews who would not accept Him (ceramic clay). As God says in Jeremiah (if I remember correctly) He has the right to make out of the clay (His people) those of pottery clay or not for His purposes. This means, that only certainl Jews (from the beginning of time) had He selected to go forth, ONLY AFTER THE CROSS, to preach the Good News. Most of the Jews after the cross would not accept Him and they would remain "ceramic clay" as their hearts were hardened like ceramic clay and would not accept Him as their Messiah. The point is the "stone" in 2:34 (Messiah) is not an end time event that EVERYONE BELIEVES, rather it was the Messiah who would strike the "feet of iron and clay only," and break them into pieces... not destroy the 4 kingdom image. Jesus came to divide, not to destroy. So, 2:34 is His first coming where He would separate the pottery clay from the ceramic clay and iron that were all confined within the symbolic feet of pagan Rome.

But this, what you call "remnant" did not exist UNTIL AFTER THE CROSS because no one truly believed He was their Messiah. Only after His resurrection would we find those that believed He was the Messiah.. Remember, it did not take long for His disciples to return to their earlier profession as mostly fisherman....

Ugh. For one thing, you didn't mention what you were talking about in the verses you were referencing. Then I realized you were referencing Daniel 2. I don't think Daniel 2 has anything to do with this. I think you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. Again, "blindness in part" means part of Israel was blinded and part (the remnant) was not. Agree or not? Let's not get bogged down in Daniel 2 and other things when it isn't necessary for understanding Romans 11.

So why would God do this? Because this was His plan from the foundation of the world. It was His plan for His chosen people to be His priests on earth to go out to the world and reveal the One true God - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.. But they did not do that but instead kept Him to themselves.. They would not even interact with the pagans / Gentiles / pigs of the world.. They had the One true God and everyone else was unclean, etc. That is not what God wanted from them. Therefore, His plan was to select those Jews (pottery clay) that would be willing to preach the Good News to the rest of the world... and they certainly succeeded.

So, yes, God sent them out to the entire world to preach the Good News so that ALLL WOULD ACCEPT HIM AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR. Whether you are Jew or Gentile, we all have the exact same opportunity to accept Him... but as you know, billions refuse to accept Him but have turned to other gods. Paul went to the Gentile world to preach the Good News so any and all would be saved... EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT JESUS..... EVERYONE.... BUT THE CHOICE IS OURS TO MAKE. He sent His Holy Spirit to show that ANYONE HAS THE ABILITY TO ASK HIM TO COME INTO THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS AND ACCEPT JESUS AS THEIR LORD AND GIVE THEM ALL THE POWER THEY WOULD EVER NEED TO BE SAVED. The Holy Spirit is available to everyone, anytime, anyplace, etc., One does not have to be in a certain church, a certain denomination, etc., He is there whenever you call upon Him. This is the better covenant offered to both Jew and Gentile.

I agree, but this has to do with "blindness in part" how? I thought you wanted to understand what "blindness in part" means?

No one believed He was their Messiah... it was ONLY after the cross that ALL would be given the choice to accept Him or reject Him.... And please remember the two thieves on the cross.. One would be saved as He believe Jesus was the Messiah (on the cross), while the other did not. It had nothing to do with the fact that they were both thieves (sinners). It was based on the faith in Jesus.

God's plan for the Gentiles was for those of His disciples to go out into the world and preach the Good News... Many would accept Him and many would reject Him - even to this day. But at the right time, the Jews will become jealous of the Gentiles when they come to realize that Jesus was / is their Messiah. There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of Jews that have indeed accepted Jesus, but most of the world's population of some 7- 9 million do not accept Him... In fact, most of those millions are secular and do not practice the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.. They are Jewish nationally but not spiritually.

You lost me. Do you believe that some Jews in the past 2,000 years did not have the opportunity to be saved? Yes or no? If not, then what in the world are you talking about here when you say "But at the right time, the Jews will become jealous of the Gentiles when they come to realize that Jesus was / is their Messiah"? Has that not already happened for the many Jews who have been saved the past 2,000 years? I can't understand what you're trying to say. You didn't really address what I said in my post, either.

At this point, what do you think "blindness in part" means? Do you agree with my explanation of it or not?

 

[grafted branch]

Only part of Israel would be blinded, but it does not mean that they would not have any opportunity to be saved. What God wants is for them to be provoked to jealousy by Gentile believers. You can see in Romans 11:11-14 that this process was in place in Paul's day. I believe that process has continued until today and will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

How are you determining who is currently considered Israel? What identifying characteristics make them Israel to God?



1. Their DNA
2. Their religion
3. Their culture
4. Their domicile
5. Their faithfulness and obedience, or lack thereof, to God and His Son
6. Something else

 

[grafted branch]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

There maybe a few different interpretations regarding the above verse in Romans. Personally, I do not feel I have a very good understanding of this verse and would like to learn what others believe it is telling us.

Examples only:

1) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah in order to bring His Word to the Gentiles,

2) that God divinely prevented His people from recognizing their Messiah but they would continue to worship Him (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but not Jesus),

3) that God gave them or allowed them to follow their heart / minds, etc., of not accepting Jesus... Sort of like He did for Pharoah...

4) that God divinely prevented them from recognizing their Messiah - but only up to the cross. After His resurrection, their eyes were no longer "blinded" and they could clearly see that Jesus, who was resurrected on the third day, and was visible to all, could not see / understand that Jesus was indeed their Messiah.

I am sure there are even more views or opinons that what is mentioned above... so I look forward to seeing them.

The blindness in part is seen in 2 Corinthians 3:13-16.

13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

This blindness ended when the old covenant vanished, and Hebrews 8:13 said it was ready to vanish away, and that was at the time Hebrews was written.



To understand the fullness of the Gentiles, which coincides with the times of the Gentiles, it really needs to be looked at beginning with the times of the Jews.

The Jewish kingdom began at Sinai, when the Shekinah glory dwelt in the Tabernacle and later in Solomon's Temple. This was when the times of the Jews started, time was not based on how old the earth was but based on the reigns of the Jewish leaders at the time.

For example 1 Kings 16:8 In the twenty and sixth year of Asa king of Judah began Elah the son of Baasha to reign over Israel in Tirzah, two years.

Time is based on who is ruling which was an extension of the authority of God. When the Babylonian captivity occurred the Shekinah glory departed the temple and the times of the Jews ended.

After the times of the Jews, Daniel gives us the images of the reigning Gentile powers on earth as animals, which one day would end. The times of the Gentiles started with Babylon and the last act that the Gentiles were prophesied to perform was the sacking of Jerusalem in Daniel 9:26-27, this happened in 70AD. We see the statements such as the fullness of the Gentiles or times of the Gentiles be fulfilled because the Gentiles didn’t fully complete all that they were prophesied to do when Romans was written. Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. The times of the Gentiles came in when the fullness or completion of all things prophesied for them occurred.

We have now come to mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. Jesus is now reigning and the Shekinah glory is in New Jerusalem as seen in Revelation 21:22-23.

It is interesting to note that the words IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD is sometimes used when expressing a date, nobody says IN THE YEAR OF THE GENTILES.