The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[Johann]

1 Peter 1:13-14 KJV
13) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

Not fashioning yourselves according to your former lusts.

Fashioning here is from a word from which we derives schematic. The same word is used here:

Romans 12:2 KJV
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Peter 1:13-14 KJV
13) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

The Grammatical Breakdown and Morphology:
"Wherefore" (διό) - This is a conjunction that introduces a consequence or result based on the preceding verses (1 Peter 1:3-12), where Peter speaks of the believer's new birth, inheritance, and salvation. It functions as a logical connector.

"gird up the loins of your mind" (ἀναζωσάμενοι τὰς ὀσφύας τῆς διανοίας ὑμῶν) -

ἀναζωσάμενοι - This verb comes from ἀναζώννυμι, meaning "to gird up" or "to prepare for action". It conveys the idea of a readiness for action, often used metaphorically to describe mental and spiritual preparedness. The verb is in the aorist middle participle, indicating a past action that continues to have an effect, here referring to the state of readiness the believer should maintain.

ὀσφύας - "Loins," literally referring to the part of the body where one would gird a garment. Used metaphorically to indicate the center of one's strength or readiness.

τῆς διανοίας ὑμῶν - "Of your mind" emphasizes the intellectual and spiritual faculties that must be prepared for the revelation of Christ. The genitive case here indicates possession, showing that this readiness pertains to one's internal state of mind.

"be sober" (νήφοντες) - The verb νήφω means "to be sober" or "to be self-controlled." In the present active participle, it suggests continual vigilance and mental clarity, particularly in matters of faith and expectation of Christ's return.

"hope to the end" (τελείως ἐλπίσατε) - This is an imperative command. ἐλπίσατε (to hope) is an aorist active imperative, which commands a decisive action—a firm and fixed hope. τελείως means "completely" or "perfectly," indicating that this hope should be unwavering and fully placed in the grace to come.

"that is to be brought unto you" (τὴν φερομένην ὑμῖν) - The present passive participle of φέρω indicates that this grace is currently being brought or is in the process of being revealed. This construction emphasizes the certainty and ongoing nature of this future grace at the revelation (ἀποκάλυψις) of Jesus Christ.

"not fashioning yourselves" (μὴ συσχηματιζόμενοι) - Here, the verb συσχηματίζω means "to conform" or "to shape oneself after." It is in the present middle participle, which implies a continuous action that the subject does to or for themselves (in this case, the believers are being warned not to conform themselves). The negative particle μὴ prohibits such ongoing conformity.

Exegetical Commentary:
The command not to "fashion" or "conform" (συσχηματίζω) to former lusts is an exhortation to radical transformation in the believer's conduct. This verb συσχηματίζω is particularly interesting because it carries the idea of outward conformity to a particular pattern or mold—in this case, the sinful desires of one’s past. Peter emphasizes that, in ignorance, the believers once lived according to the dictates of their "former lusts" (πρότερον ἐν τῇ ἀγνοίᾳ ἐπιθυμίαις). The former life is characterized by ignorance and sinful desires, but now, as obedient children, believers are called to break from those patterns. This command involves a mental and spiritual transformation that resists conforming to the old ways.

I've noticed that "freed" here is translated from dikaioo, for a literal reading of "the one who has died is justified away from sin". I think "freed from sin" is the meaning here, but I also think that "justified away from sin" is the manner in which it happens.

That being co-crucified and then raised with Christ renders us righteous by virtue of a new creation, which is our justification - righteous-making -

@marks here your observation is insightful, as it shows the nuanced meaning of the word δεδικαίωται (from δικαιόω) in Romans 6:7. While most English translations render this as "freed from sin," the verb δικαιόω primarily means "to justify" or "to declare righteous." So, a more literal translation might indeed be "the one who has died has been justified from sin."

The theological implication of this wording aligns with your understanding of justification being the manner by which believers are freed from sin.

1. Justification as Righteous-Making:
δικαιόω does not just imply a legal acquittal, as in a courtroom setting, but it also involves a transformative aspect. In Paul’s theology, being "justified" through faith in Christ is not merely a declaration of innocence but a real transformation that affects one's standing before God. Through justification, the believer is made righteous and set apart from sin.
Therefore, when Paul says "the one who has died" (i.e., the believer who has spiritually died with Christ), "has been justified away from sin," this carries the idea that justification breaks sin's power. This means that the believer is declared righteous and thus freed from sin's dominion.

2. Co-Crucifixion and Co-Resurrection as Justification:

As you pointed out, the process of being co-crucified and co-resurrected with Christ is not only about freedom from sin’s grip, but it’s also the means by which we are made righteous. This is a central part of Paul’s soteriology (doctrine of salvation)—the believer participates in Christ’s death and resurrection, and as a result, the old sinful nature is crucified, and a new creation emerges.

This new creation, formed in the likeness of Christ’s resurrection, is what constitutes the believer’s justification or righteous-making. Through this union with Christ, believers are not only seen as righteous in a legal sense but are actually being transformed into righteous beings by virtue of their new life in Christ.

3. Justified "Away From" Sin:
The phrase "away from sin" (ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας) suggests not just freedom from the guilt of sin but also a complete separation from sin’s power. The preposition ἀπό conveys the idea of distance or separation—indicating that the justified person has been removed from the realm of sin’s control.
In this sense, justification "away from sin" means that the believer is no longer under sin’s dominion, and the legal, moral, and spiritual effects of sin are nullified because they have been declared righteous by God through Christ’s sacrifice.

@Hepzibah speaks of Christ not being able to live in someone who commits sin, but I think the reality is totally different from that. It's not about Him living in me as I still sin, it's about me living in Him in Whom is no sin.

Being "righteous-ized" away from sin means to be recreated in righteousness so that I'm no longer the sinner. Which is what Paul says in Romans 7, "Therefore it is no more I, but sin that lives in me." "put to death your members that are on the earth."

So my question for you my learned brother, is this the right idea on that passage, "the one who has died is freed from sin"?

Absolutely spot on.

Here’s why:

Literal Translation:

The Greek phrase "δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας" literally means "has been justified from sin." While most translations use "freed from sin" because this captures the practical outcome, the original verb δικαιόω speaks to justification—being declared righteous.
The concept of being "freed" stems from the fact that justification by God removes both the guilt and the power of sin over the believer’s life. In other words, to be justified is to be set free from sin's authority.
Death as Liberation:

The one who has died—i.e., the believer who has died with Christ (as discussed in Romans 6:3-6)—is no longer bound to sin because death breaks the bond. Just as physical death ends one’s legal and social obligations, spiritual death with Christ ends the believer's obligation to sin.
This death is not only a release from sin’s penalty (justification) but also from its dominion and control. Paul emphasizes that the old self is crucified, which means that sin no longer has mastery.
Justification as Freedom from Sin:

The idea of justification is not only about a legal declaration of righteousness but about the believer being set apart from the realm of sin. Through union with Christ in His death, the believer is freed from the necessity to serve sin, both legally and practically.
This righteous-making process (justification) is what enables the believer to live in the newness of life that Paul describes in the surrounding verses. It’s not just a change in status, but a real transformation that results in freedom from sin's power.


Hope this is helpful.
J.

 

[Johann]

The church is His body on earth. He has chosen to work through earthen vessels (as well as that He can work sovereignly).

I'm not going to argue @Lizbeth since I'm tired and what is the role of the Holy Spirit?

Prayers are rarely mentioned on this forum-correct?

Luke 18:1 (KJV)
“And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint.”

The Greek word for "ought" is δέω (deō), which carries the sense of something being necessary or binding. Jesus is making it clear that prayer is not optional; it’s something that must be done continually.
The word for "pray" is προσεύχομαι (proseuchomai), which is a combination of πρός (pros, meaning "toward" or "face-to-face") and εὔχομαι (euchomai, meaning "to wish" or "to request"). So προσεύχομαι gives the picture of bringing your requests and desires directly before God—a deeply personal, intimate act.
Jesus is saying that believers must persist in prayer (always), and even when it seems difficult, we are not to give up. This highlights the constant necessity of prayer in maintaining a strong relationship with God.
1 Thessalonians 5:17 (KJV)
“Pray without ceasing.”

The Greek word for "pray" here is again προσεύχομαι, which emphasizes face-to-face communication with God.
The word "without ceasing" is ἀδιαλείπτως (adialeiptōs), which means without intermission or continuously. It doesn’t mean that you are literally praying every second of the day, but that you are to remain in a constant state of openness to God, always ready to pray and maintaining that connection.
The idea here is that prayer should be woven into the fabric of our daily lives, not just something we do at specific times. We are to be in ongoing dialogue with God throughout our day.

The Greek language of the New Testament gives a richer depth to the imperative nature of prayer. The words προσεύχομαι and δέησις remind us that prayer is a personal, active engagement with God, not just a ritual or duty. Scripture repeatedly instructs us to pray continually, to bring all our requests to God, and to trust that prayer is powerful and effective. Prayer is a lifeline to God, and the Bible emphasizes its necessity in every aspect of the Christian life.

You want to see "miracles?" Prayers and of course God can use earthen vessels but what I do witness are the modern day Western "prophets" and "apostles" with their pseudo signs and wonders-void of the Ruach HaKodesh.

 

[Johann]

I've heard some describe it as being separated from our old man. The word of God being alive and active and able to penetrate (deep) to the dividing between soul and spirit, bone and marrow..

Crucify the Old Man:
Romans 6:6 (KJV): "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

The Greek phrase for "crucified" is συνεσταυρώθη (synestaurōthē), meaning “to crucify together with”. This is a past action that was done when we were united with Christ in His death. It emphasizes that the old man was put to death with Christ on the cross.
The old man—our former way of life dominated by sin—was co-crucified with Christ. This means that, in a spiritual sense, our sinful nature has been dealt with through Christ’s crucifixion.
What we are to do with the old man, then, is recognize that it has already been crucified with Christ. The power of sin over us has been broken.
Put Off the Old Man:
Ephesians 4:22 (KJV): "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;"

The phrase "put off" is from the Greek verb ἀποτίθημι (apotithēmi), meaning “to lay aside, to cast off”. This implies an intentional action, a deliberate removal of something that no longer belongs to us.
The old man is described as corrupt (Greek: φθείρω (phtheirō), meaning "to destroy, ruin, or decay") and governed by deceitful desires. These are the sinful inclinations and patterns of thinking that belonged to our former life before we came to Christ.
We are called to actively reject or lay aside the behaviors, attitudes, and mindsets associated with our old sinful self. It’s not something that happens passively; we must take deliberate steps to put off these traits.
Put to Death the Old Man’s Deeds:
Colossians 3:5 (KJV): "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"

The word "mortify" is from the Greek verb νεκρόω (nekroō), meaning "to put to death" or "to render inactive." It conveys a strong command to deal ruthlessly with the sinful practices of our old nature.
The members (i.e., parts of ourselves that are inclined toward sin) must be put to death. These sinful tendencies are not to be managed or controlled—they are to be killed off.

This is a command to take decisive action against the sinful deeds and desires that are characteristic of the old man. It’s about ending their influence in our lives.
4. Put on the New Man:
Colossians 3:9-10 (KJV): "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

The Greek verb ἐνδύω (endyō) means "to put on", as one would put on a garment. It’s an act of clothing oneself with a new identity. The old man is to be put off and replaced with the new man, which represents the new nature given to us in Christ.
The new man is described as being renewed (Greek: ἀνακαινόω (anakainoō), meaning "to make new") in the knowledge of God. This is a continuous renewal, a transformation into the image of Christ.
The action here is to put on the new self, which reflects the righteousness and holiness of God. This means embracing and living out our new identity as those who belong to Christ.

So what happened to "the old man?"
The Old Man is Crucified, but Still Present: Paradoxical?
Romans 6:6 says that the old man has been crucified with Christ, but this doesn’t mean it has been eradicated or surgically removed from our being. The verb "crucified" (συνεσταυρώθη synestaurōthē) indicates that the power of the old man has been rendered inactive, but the presence of the old man is still something we contend with daily.

The crucifixion of the old man means that it no longer holds us captive to sin the way it once did. However, we still experience the pull of sinful desires (often referred to as the "flesh").

2. Ongoing Struggle Between the Flesh and Spirit:
Galatians 5:17 (KJV): "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other."

The term flesh (σάρξ sarx) is often used synonymously with the old man to describe the part of us that remains prone to sin. This passage indicates an ongoing internal conflict between the flesh and the Holy Spirit. If the old man were completely removed, there would be no such conflict.

This struggle is part of the Christian life, and the call to walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16) is about choosing to live in accordance with our new identity rather than giving in to the old man’s temptations.

3. Put Off the Old Man Daily:

Ephesians 4:22 and Colossians 3:9 both emphasize the need to put off the old man. The Greek verb ἀποτίθημι (apotithēmi) means to lay aside or cast off, which implies an ongoing, repeated action. This continual "putting off" suggests that while the old man’s dominion over us has been broken, we still must choose daily to reject its influence.

The old man is still present, tempting us to return to former ways of thinking and behaving. But as believers, we now have the power, through the Holy Spirit, to resist those urges and live according to the new man.

4. Sanctification is a Process, Not Instant Removal:
Romans 12:2 speaks of the need for transformation by the renewing of our minds. This indicates that the process of sanctification—becoming more like Christ—is ongoing and gradual. We are not instantly perfected or entirely freed from the influence of the old man upon conversion.
The old man’s habits and patterns of sin remain ingrained, and part of our growth in Christ involves retraining our minds and habits to align with our new identity in Him--in the sphere of the Holy Spirit, of course.

Shalom and Goodnight.
J.

 

[Johann]

Crucify the Old Man:
Romans 6:6 (KJV): "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

The Greek phrase for "crucified" is συνεσταυρώθη (synestaurōthē), meaning “to crucify together with”. This is a past action that was done when we were united with Christ in His death. It emphasizes that the old man was put to death with Christ on the cross.
The old man—our former way of life dominated by sin—was co-crucified with Christ. This means that, in a spiritual sense, our sinful nature has been dealt with through Christ’s crucifixion.
What we are to do with the old man, then, is recognize that it has already been crucified with Christ. The power of sin over us has been broken.
Put Off the Old Man:
Ephesians 4:22 (KJV): "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;"

The phrase "put off" is from the Greek verb ἀποτίθημι (apotithēmi), meaning “to lay aside, to cast off”. This implies an intentional action, a deliberate removal of something that no longer belongs to us.
The old man is described as corrupt (Greek: φθείρω (phtheirō), meaning "to destroy, ruin, or decay") and governed by deceitful desires. These are the sinful inclinations and patterns of thinking that belonged to our former life before we came to Christ.
We are called to actively reject or lay aside the behaviors, attitudes, and mindsets associated with our old sinful self. It’s not something that happens passively; we must take deliberate steps to put off these traits.
Put to Death the Old Man’s Deeds:
Colossians 3:5 (KJV): "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"

The word "mortify" is from the Greek verb νεκρόω (nekroō), meaning "to put to death" or "to render inactive." It conveys a strong command to deal ruthlessly with the sinful practices of our old nature.
The members (i.e., parts of ourselves that are inclined toward sin) must be put to death. These sinful tendencies are not to be managed or controlled—they are to be killed off.

This is a command to take decisive action against the sinful deeds and desires that are characteristic of the old man. It’s about ending their influence in our lives.
4. Put on the New Man:
Colossians 3:9-10 (KJV): "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

The Greek verb ἐνδύω (endyō) means "to put on", as one would put on a garment. It’s an act of clothing oneself with a new identity. The old man is to be put off and replaced with the new man, which represents the new nature given to us in Christ.
The new man is described as being renewed (Greek: ἀνακαινόω (anakainoō), meaning "to make new") in the knowledge of God. This is a continuous renewal, a transformation into the image of Christ.
The action here is to put on the new self, which reflects the righteousness and holiness of God. This means embracing and living out our new identity as those who belong to Christ.

So what happened to "the old man?"
The Old Man is Crucified, but Still Present: Paradoxical?
Romans 6:6 says that the old man has been crucified with Christ, but this doesn’t mean it has been eradicated or surgically removed from our being. The verb "crucified" (συνεσταυρώθη synestaurōthē) indicates that the power of the old man has been rendered inactive, but the presence of the old man is still something we contend with daily.

The crucifixion of the old man means that it no longer holds us captive to sin the way it once did. However, we still experience the pull of sinful desires (often referred to as the "flesh").

2. Ongoing Struggle Between the Flesh and Spirit:
Galatians 5:17 (KJV): "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other."

The term flesh (σάρξ sarx) is often used synonymously with the old man to describe the part of us that remains prone to sin. This passage indicates an ongoing internal conflict between the flesh and the Holy Spirit. If the old man were completely removed, there would be no such conflict.

This struggle is part of the Christian life, and the call to walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16) is about choosing to live in accordance with our new identity rather than giving in to the old man’s temptations.

3. Put Off the Old Man Daily:

Ephesians 4:22 and Colossians 3:9 both emphasize the need to put off the old man. The Greek verb ἀποτίθημι (apotithēmi) means to lay aside or cast off, which implies an ongoing, repeated action. This continual "putting off" suggests that while the old man’s dominion over us has been broken, we still must choose daily to reject its influence.

The old man is still present, tempting us to return to former ways of thinking and behaving. But as believers, we now have the power, through the Holy Spirit, to resist those urges and live according to the new man.

4. Sanctification is a Process, Not Instant Removal:
Romans 12:2 speaks of the need for transformation by the renewing of our minds. This indicates that the process of sanctification—becoming more like Christ—is ongoing and gradual. We are not instantly perfected or entirely freed from the influence of the old man upon conversion.
The old man’s habits and patterns of sin remain ingrained, and part of our growth in Christ involves retraining our minds and habits to align with our new identity in Him--in the sphere of the Holy Spirit, of course.

Shalom and Goodnight.
J.

Maybe one day-Lord willing I can open my own YouTube channel and surround myself with godly counselors.
And do an in depth study on Romans 6, 7 & 8.
Or maybe invite me to their channel.

 

[Johann]

Brother, I believe prophets are primarily ploughmen........and then reapers (eg, evangelists) reap what the ploughmen have worked and laboured hard for (and paid the price), ploughing and sowing. Ploughing is the more difficult work....preparing and tilling the hardened soil of hearts to receive the gospel or return to it....

@Johann

I did watch that video with Dr. Bob Utley.
Can't remember if you posted it on this thread....
You said he might not be my cup of tea.
He was OK. I found no problem with him.
For teaching I have to say that I like Mike Winger.
He's a pastor, very down to earth, and goes deep into topics.
I listen to many teachers because the CC I attend does not have any teaching ministries.
'night.

I also listen to Mike @GodsGrace but have to admit his feminine gestures puts me right off.
I didn't receive a notification on your post.
I also enjoy Inductive Biblical studies and Precept Austin is good, just be careful on the Calvin commentaries.
Shalom.
J.

 

[GTW27]

Brother, I believe prophets are primarily ploughmen........and then reapers (eg, evangelists) reap what the ploughmen have worked and laboured hard for (and paid the price), ploughing and sowing. Ploughing is the more difficult work....preparing and tilling the hardened soil of hearts to receive the gospel or return to it....thinking of obstacles like stumps and boulders and overgrown weeds to get out of the way. Like John the Baptist (spirit of Elijah) ploughmen prepare the way for the Lord, calling for repentance, exposing sin and false doctrine etc, and take a lot of flack for it. People don't like to be confronted with anything or corrected.

Amo 9:13

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

Jhn 4:35-38

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.

I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.



(Not that God is inflexible or limited, I believe He can use any vessel He wants to do anything He wants at any time, but this is in general - and for example an evangelist or pastor may also have prophetic gifts and don't see why a prophet can't also have evangelistic gifts, etc). Hope this is helpful.

Give ear, and hear my voice; hearken and hear my speech. Does He who plows for sowing plow continually?
does He continually open and harrow His ground? When He has leveled its surface, does He not scatter dill, sow cummin, and put wheat in rows and barley in its proper place, and spelt as the border? For he is instructed aright; his God teaches him.

Dill is not threshed with a threshing sledge, nor a cart wheel rolled over cummin; but dill is beaten out with a stick, and cummin with a rod.
Does one crush bread grain? No, He does not thresh it for ever; when He drives His cart wheel over it with His horses, He does not crush it.
This also comes from The Lord of Host; He is wonderful in counsel and excellent in wisdom.

 

[marks]

Hope this is helpful.
J.

Yes it is, thank you!

Much love!!

 

[Johann]

1 Peter 1:13-14 KJV
13) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

The Grammatical Breakdown and Morphology:
"Wherefore" (διό) - This is a conjunction that introduces a consequence or result based on the preceding verses (1 Peter 1:3-12), where Peter speaks of the believer's new birth, inheritance, and salvation. It functions as a logical connector.

"gird up the loins of your mind" (ἀναζωσάμενοι τὰς ὀσφύας τῆς διανοίας ὑμῶν) -

ἀναζωσάμενοι - This verb comes from ἀναζώννυμι, meaning "to gird up" or "to prepare for action". It conveys the idea of a readiness for action, often used metaphorically to describe mental and spiritual preparedness. The verb is in the aorist middle participle, indicating a past action that continues to have an effect, here referring to the state of readiness the believer should maintain.

ὀσφύας - "Loins," literally referring to the part of the body where one would gird a garment. Used metaphorically to indicate the center of one's strength or readiness.

τῆς διανοίας ὑμῶν - "Of your mind" emphasizes the intellectual and spiritual faculties that must be prepared for the revelation of Christ. The genitive case here indicates possession, showing that this readiness pertains to one's internal state of mind.

"be sober" (νήφοντες) - The verb νήφω means "to be sober" or "to be self-controlled." In the present active participle, it suggests continual vigilance and mental clarity, particularly in matters of faith and expectation of Christ's return.

"hope to the end" (τελείως ἐλπίσατε) - This is an imperative command. ἐλπίσατε (to hope) is an aorist active imperative, which commands a decisive action—a firm and fixed hope. τελείως means "completely" or "perfectly," indicating that this hope should be unwavering and fully placed in the grace to come.

"that is to be brought unto you" (τὴν φερομένην ὑμῖν) - The present passive participle of φέρω indicates that this grace is currently being brought or is in the process of being revealed. This construction emphasizes the certainty and ongoing nature of this future grace at the revelation (ἀποκάλυψις) of Jesus Christ.

"not fashioning yourselves" (μὴ συσχηματιζόμενοι) - Here, the verb συσχηματίζω means "to conform" or "to shape oneself after." It is in the present middle participle, which implies a continuous action that the subject does to or for themselves (in this case, the believers are being warned not to conform themselves). The negative particle μὴ prohibits such ongoing conformity.

Exegetical Commentary:
The command not to "fashion" or "conform" (συσχηματίζω) to former lusts is an exhortation to radical transformation in the believer's conduct. This verb συσχηματίζω is particularly interesting because it carries the idea of outward conformity to a particular pattern or mold—in this case, the sinful desires of one’s past. Peter emphasizes that, in ignorance, the believers once lived according to the dictates of their "former lusts" (πρότερον ἐν τῇ ἀγνοίᾳ ἐπιθυμίαις). The former life is characterized by ignorance and sinful desires, but now, as obedient children, believers are called to break from those patterns. This command involves a mental and spiritual transformation that resists conforming to the old ways.

@marks here your observation is insightful, as it shows the nuanced meaning of the word δεδικαίωται (from δικαιόω) in Romans 6:7. While most English translations render this as "freed from sin," the verb δικαιόω primarily means "to justify" or "to declare righteous." So, a more literal translation might indeed be "the one who has died has been justified from sin."

The theological implication of this wording aligns with your understanding of justification being the manner by which believers are freed from sin.

1. Justification as Righteous-Making:
δικαιόω does not just imply a legal acquittal, as in a courtroom setting, but it also involves a transformative aspect. In Paul’s theology, being "justified" through faith in Christ is not merely a declaration of innocence but a real transformation that affects one's standing before God. Through justification, the believer is made righteous and set apart from sin.
Therefore, when Paul says "the one who has died" (i.e., the believer who has spiritually died with Christ), "has been justified away from sin," this carries the idea that justification breaks sin's power. This means that the believer is declared righteous and thus freed from sin's dominion.

2. Co-Crucifixion and Co-Resurrection as Justification:

As you pointed out, the process of being co-crucified and co-resurrected with Christ is not only about freedom from sin’s grip, but it’s also the means by which we are made righteous. This is a central part of Paul’s soteriology (doctrine of salvation)—the believer participates in Christ’s death and resurrection, and as a result, the old sinful nature is crucified, and a new creation emerges.

This new creation, formed in the likeness of Christ’s resurrection, is what constitutes the believer’s justification or righteous-making. Through this union with Christ, believers are not only seen as righteous in a legal sense but are actually being transformed into righteous beings by virtue of their new life in Christ.

3. Justified "Away From" Sin:
The phrase "away from sin" (ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας) suggests not just freedom from the guilt of sin but also a complete separation from sin’s power. The preposition ἀπό conveys the idea of distance or separation—indicating that the justified person has been removed from the realm of sin’s control.
In this sense, justification "away from sin" means that the believer is no longer under sin’s dominion, and the legal, moral, and spiritual effects of sin are nullified because they have been declared righteous by God through Christ’s sacrifice.



Absolutely spot on.

Here’s why:

Literal Translation:

The Greek phrase "δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας" literally means "has been justified from sin." While most translations use "freed from sin" because this captures the practical outcome, the original verb δικαιόω speaks to justification—being declared righteous.
The concept of being "freed" stems from the fact that justification by God removes both the guilt and the power of sin over the believer’s life. In other words, to be justified is to be set free from sin's authority.
Death as Liberation:

The one who has died—i.e., the believer who has died with Christ (as discussed in Romans 6:3-6)—is no longer bound to sin because death breaks the bond. Just as physical death ends one’s legal and social obligations, spiritual death with Christ ends the believer's obligation to sin.
This death is not only a release from sin’s penalty (justification) but also from its dominion and control. Paul emphasizes that the old self is crucified, which means that sin no longer has mastery.
Justification as Freedom from Sin:

The idea of justification is not only about a legal declaration of righteousness but about the believer being set apart from the realm of sin. Through union with Christ in His death, the believer is freed from the necessity to serve sin, both legally and practically.
This righteous-making process (justification) is what enables the believer to live in the newness of life that Paul describes in the surrounding verses. It’s not just a change in status, but a real transformation that results in freedom from sin's power.


Hope this is helpful.
J.

You may add or correct @marks-I am not always "right" and don't want to bring in my biases or presuppositions and fall into another ditch!
Always open to correction brother-unfortunately this is not a teaching forum since we can go deeper into Romans 6,7& 8 but alas!
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Yes it is, thank you!

Much love!!

You may add or correct brother-we can go deeper into this wonderful study on Romans 6,7 and 8 with our Bibles open.
But this is not a teaching Forum-in the East they "practice" here in the West we tend to fill our minds with unnecessary data and teachings contrary to what stands written.
Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

Crucify the Old Man:
Romans 6:6 (KJV): "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

The Greek phrase for "crucified" is συνεσταυρώθη (synestaurōthē), meaning “to crucify together with”. This is a past action that was done when we were united with Christ in His death. It emphasizes that the old man was put to death with Christ on the cross.
The old man—our former way of life dominated by sin—was co-crucified with Christ. This means that, in a spiritual sense, our sinful nature has been dealt with through Christ’s crucifixion.
What we are to do with the old man, then, is recognize that it has already been crucified with Christ. The power of sin over us has been broken.
Put Off the Old Man:
Ephesians 4:22 (KJV): "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;"

The phrase "put off" is from the Greek verb ἀποτίθημι (apotithēmi), meaning “to lay aside, to cast off”. This implies an intentional action, a deliberate removal of something that no longer belongs to us.
The old man is described as corrupt (Greek: φθείρω (phtheirō), meaning "to destroy, ruin, or decay") and governed by deceitful desires. These are the sinful inclinations and patterns of thinking that belonged to our former life before we came to Christ.
We are called to actively reject or lay aside the behaviors, attitudes, and mindsets associated with our old sinful self. It’s not something that happens passively; we must take deliberate steps to put off these traits.
Put to Death the Old Man’s Deeds:
Colossians 3:5 (KJV): "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"

The word "mortify" is from the Greek verb νεκρόω (nekroō), meaning "to put to death" or "to render inactive." It conveys a strong command to deal ruthlessly with the sinful practices of our old nature.
The members (i.e., parts of ourselves that are inclined toward sin) must be put to death. These sinful tendencies are not to be managed or controlled—they are to be killed off.

This is a command to take decisive action against the sinful deeds and desires that are characteristic of the old man. It’s about ending their influence in our lives.
4. Put on the New Man:
Colossians 3:9-10 (KJV): "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

The Greek verb ἐνδύω (endyō) means "to put on", as one would put on a garment. It’s an act of clothing oneself with a new identity. The old man is to be put off and replaced with the new man, which represents the new nature given to us in Christ.
The new man is described as being renewed (Greek: ἀνακαινόω (anakainoō), meaning "to make new") in the knowledge of God. This is a continuous renewal, a transformation into the image of Christ.
The action here is to put on the new self, which reflects the righteousness and holiness of God. This means embracing and living out our new identity as those who belong to Christ.

So what happened to "the old man?"
The Old Man is Crucified, but Still Present: Paradoxical?
Romans 6:6 says that the old man has been crucified with Christ, but this doesn’t mean it has been eradicated or surgically removed from our being. The verb "crucified" (συνεσταυρώθη synestaurōthē) indicates that the power of the old man has been rendered inactive, but the presence of the old man is still something we contend with daily.

The crucifixion of the old man means that it no longer holds us captive to sin the way it once did. However, we still experience the pull of sinful desires (often referred to as the "flesh").

2. Ongoing Struggle Between the Flesh and Spirit:
Galatians 5:17 (KJV): "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other."

The term flesh (σάρξ sarx) is often used synonymously with the old man to describe the part of us that remains prone to sin. This passage indicates an ongoing internal conflict between the flesh and the Holy Spirit. If the old man were completely removed, there would be no such conflict.

This struggle is part of the Christian life, and the call to walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16) is about choosing to live in accordance with our new identity rather than giving in to the old man’s temptations.

3. Put Off the Old Man Daily:

Ephesians 4:22 and Colossians 3:9 both emphasize the need to put off the old man. The Greek verb ἀποτίθημι (apotithēmi) means to lay aside or cast off, which implies an ongoing, repeated action. This continual "putting off" suggests that while the old man’s dominion over us has been broken, we still must choose daily to reject its influence.

The old man is still present, tempting us to return to former ways of thinking and behaving. But as believers, we now have the power, through the Holy Spirit, to resist those urges and live according to the new man.

4. Sanctification is a Process, Not Instant Removal:
Romans 12:2 speaks of the need for transformation by the renewing of our minds. This indicates that the process of sanctification—becoming more like Christ—is ongoing and gradual. We are not instantly perfected or entirely freed from the influence of the old man upon conversion.
The old man’s habits and patterns of sin remain ingrained, and part of our growth in Christ involves retraining our minds and habits to align with our new identity in Him--in the sphere of the Holy Spirit, of course.

Shalom and Goodnight.
J.

Yes, there are numerous ways to express the same thing. I think "putting off" the old man would imply a separation from it.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm not going to argue @Lizbeth since I'm tired and what is the role of the Holy Spirit?

Prayers are rarely mentioned on this forum-correct?

Luke 18:1 (KJV)
“And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint.”

The Greek word for "ought" is δέω (deō), which carries the sense of something being necessary or binding. Jesus is making it clear that prayer is not optional; it’s something that must be done continually.
The word for "pray" is προσεύχομαι (proseuchomai), which is a combination of πρός (pros, meaning "toward" or "face-to-face") and εὔχομαι (euchomai, meaning "to wish" or "to request"). So προσεύχομαι gives the picture of bringing your requests and desires directly before God—a deeply personal, intimate act.
Jesus is saying that believers must persist in prayer (always), and even when it seems difficult, we are not to give up. This highlights the constant necessity of prayer in maintaining a strong relationship with God.
1 Thessalonians 5:17 (KJV)
“Pray without ceasing.”

The Greek word for "pray" here is again προσεύχομαι, which emphasizes face-to-face communication with God.
The word "without ceasing" is ἀδιαλείπτως (adialeiptōs), which means without intermission or continuously. It doesn’t mean that you are literally praying every second of the day, but that you are to remain in a constant state of openness to God, always ready to pray and maintaining that connection.
The idea here is that prayer should be woven into the fabric of our daily lives, not just something we do at specific times. We are to be in ongoing dialogue with God throughout our day.

The Greek language of the New Testament gives a richer depth to the imperative nature of prayer. The words προσεύχομαι and δέησις remind us that prayer is a personal, active engagement with God, not just a ritual or duty. Scripture repeatedly instructs us to pray continually, to bring all our requests to God, and to trust that prayer is powerful and effective. Prayer is a lifeline to God, and the Bible emphasizes its necessity in every aspect of the Christian life.

You want to see "miracles?" Prayers and of course God can use earthen vessels but what I do witness are the modern day Western "prophets" and "apostles" with their pseudo signs and wonders-void of the Ruach HaKodesh.

View attachment 49838

View attachment 49839

I've never thought to define the role of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps I would say it's God's power and presence with us and in us on earth. How would you define or describe it? He does so many things I 'm not sure I can define it.

Prayer doesn't contradict that we are Christ's body on earth. We as His body do pray for God's will to be done on earth, as Jesus did.

 

[Hepzibah]

@Johann wrote: The Old Man is Crucified, but Still Present: Paradoxical?
Romans 6:6 says that the old man has been crucified with Christ, but this doesn’t mean it has been eradicated or surgically removed from our being. The verb "crucified" (συνεσταυρώθη synestaurōthē) indicates that the power of the old man has been rendered inactive, but the presence of the old man is still something we contend with daily.

This is just your opinion. I think I would take Strong's definition, who gives three possibilities, before yours, which is denying it. The sign of a dishonest scholar:

Katargeo​

kat-arg-eh'-o
Parts of SpeechVerb

Katargeo Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 27

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
   1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
   2. to deprive of force, influence, power
2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
3. to cease, to pass away, be done away
   1. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
   2. to terminate all intercourse with one

Audio Pronunciation
Original Language
katargeo
Origin
from (2596) and (691)
Strong's Number
2673
TDNT Entry
1:452,76

HELPS Word-studies
2673 katargéō (from 2596 /katá, "down to a point," intensifying 691 /argéō, "inactive, idle") – properly, idle down, rendering something inert ("completely inoperative"); i.e. being of no effect (totally without force, completely brought down); done away with, cause to cease and therefore abolish; make invalid, abrogate (bring to nought); "to make idle or inactive" (so also in Euripides, Phoen., 753, Abbott-Smith).

["2673 (katargéō) means 'to make completely inoperative' or 'to put out of use,' according to TDNT (1.453)" (J. Rodman Williams, Renewal Theology "God, the World & Redemption," 389).]



But really, in action they should have the same result - freed from sin, which is the reason Christ came.

Hepzibah :It is not easy to explain or understand. It is completely gone yes in order for a man to be in Christ in reality not just in position. But it can come back.

@Johann: It is easy-not the way you explain it though, makes it rather complicated Sister.

This is an area where I have not worked through fully since revelation I received on it and my personal experience. I apologise.

@Johann:
Always open to correction brother-unfortunately this is not a teaching forum since we can go deeper into Romans 6,7& 8 but alas!
Shalom.

Well that would be interesting to see how you explain the contradiction here:

Rom. 7:14 But I am carnal, sold under sin

Rom. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is DEATH

2 Tim. 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with PURE CONSCIENCE, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day

​

 

[Johann]

HELPS Word-studies
2673 katargéō (from 2596 /katá, "down to a point," intensifying 691 /argéō, "inactive, idle") – properly, idle down, rendering something inert ("completely inoperative"); i.e. being of no effect (totally without force, completely brought down); done away with, cause to cease and therefore abolish; make invalid, abrogate (bring to nought); "to make idle or inactive" (so also in Euripides, Phoen., 753, Abbott-Smith).

["2673 (katargéō) means 'to make completely inoperative' or 'to put out of use,' according to TDNT (1.453)" (J. Rodman Williams, Renewal Theology "God, the World & Redemption," 389).]

Word studies can be valuable, but their effectiveness depends heavily on context, grammar, and syntax. Since neither you nor I are scholars, it would be wiser for us to consult scholarly writings rather than relying solely on word studies.
You maybe a voracious reader but not a Berean-I can tell @Hepzibah.


Well that would be interesting to see how you explain the contradiction here:

Now why on earth would a "dishonest scholar" exegete this and do your homework?

Rom 7:14 we-are-aware G1492 G5758 vi Perf Act 1 Pl oidamen οιδαμεν T1 V-RIA-1P We know For G1063 Conj gar γαρ T2 Conj for That G3754 Conj hoti οτι T3 Conj that The G3588 t_ Nom Sg m ho ο T4 Art-NMS - Law G3551 n_ Nom Sg m nomos νομοσ T5 N-NMS [the] Law Spiritual G4152 a_ Nom Sg m pneumatikos πνευματικοσ T6 Adj-NMS spiritual Is G2076 G5748 vi Pres vxx 3 Sg estin εστιν T7 - - I G1473 pp 1 Nom Sg ego εγω T8 PPro-N1S I Yet G1161 Conj de δε T9 Conj however fleshly G4559 a_ Nom Sg m sarkikos σαρκικοσ T10 - - Am G1510 G5748 vi Pres vxx 1 Sg eimi ειμι T11 V-PIA-3S is; Having-been-disposed-of G4097 G5772 vp Perf Pas Nom Sg m pepramenos πεπραμενοσ T12 V-RPM/P-NMS having been sold Under G5259 Prep hupo υπο T13 Prep under The G3588 t_ Acc Sg f ten την T14 Art-AFS - sin G266 n_ Acc Sg f hamartian αμαρτιαν T15 N-AFS sin.

Rom 8:6 The G3588 t_ Nom Sg n to το T1 Art-NNS The For G1063 Conj gar γαρ T2 Conj for Disposition G5427 n_ Nom Sg n phronema φρονημα T3 N-NNS mind Of-the G3588 t_ Gen Sg f tes τησ T4 Art-GFS of the Flesh G4561 n_ Gen Sg f sarkos σαρκοσ T5 N-GFS flesh Death G2288 n_ Nom Sg m thanatos θανατοσ T6 N-NMS [is] death; The G3588 t_ Nom Sg n to το T7 Art-NNS the Yet G1161 Conj de δε T8 Conj but Disposition G5427 n_ Nom Sg n phronema φρονημα T9 N-NNS mind Of-the G3588 t_ Gen Sg n tou του T10 Art-GNS of the Spirit G4151 n_ Gen Sg n pneumatos πνευματοσ T11 N-GNS Spirit, Life G2222 n_ Nom Sg f zoe ζωη T12 N-NFS life And G2532 Conj kai και T13 Conj and Peace G1515 n_ Nom Sg f eirene ειρηνη T14 N-NFS peace,

2Ti 1:3 gratitude G5485 n_ Acc Sg f charin χαριν T1 N-AFS Thankful I-am-having G2192 G5719 vi Pres Act 1 Sg echo εχω T2 V-PIA-1S N1 I am To-the G3588 t_ Dat Sg m to τω T3 Art-DMS - God G2316 n_ Dat Sg m theo θεω T4 N-DMS to God, To-whom G3739 pr Dat Sg m ho ω T5 RelPro-DMS whom I-am-offering-divine-service G3000 G5719 vi Pres Act 1 Sg latreuo λατρευω T6 V-PIA-1S I serve From G575 Prep apo απο T7 Prep from [my]-ancestors G4269 n_ Gen Pl m progonon προγονων T8 N-GMP [my] forefathers In G1722 Prep en εν T9 Prep with clear G2513 a_ Dat Sg f kathara καθαρα T10 Adj-DFS a pure Conscience G4893 n_ Dat Sg f suneidesei συνειδησει T11 N-DFS conscience, As G5613 Adv hos ωσ T12 Adv as unintermittent G88 a_ Acc Sg f adialeipton αδιαλειπτον T13 Adj-AFS unceasingly I-am-having G2192 G5719 vi Pres Act 1 Sg echo εχω T14 V-PIA-1S I have The G3588 t_ Acc Sg f ten την T15 Art-AFS the concerning G4012 Prep peri περι T16 Prep of You G4675 pp 2 Gen Sg sou σου T17 - - remembrance G3417 n_ Acc Sg f mneian μνειαν T18 N-AFS remembrance In G1722 Prep en εν T19 Prep in The G3588 t_ Dat Pl f tais ταισ T20 Art-DFP the Petitions G1162 n_ Dat Pl f deesesin δεησεσιν T21 N-DFP prayers Of-me G3450 pp 1 Gen Sg mou μου T22 - - night G3571 n_ Gen Sg f nuktos νυκτοσ T23 N-GFS night And G2532 Conj kai και T24 Conj and day G2250 n_ Gen Sg f hemeras ημερασ T25 N-GFS day,

Now since you have committed an act of sin, by calling me "dishonest" you need to repent, come back on track, and study to show yourself a woman approved by rightly cutting straight the D'var of YHVH.

2Ti 2:15 Do your best to shtel zich (apply yourself), to present yourself to Hashem as one approved, a po'el (workman) without bushah (shame), keeping on a derech yashar the Dvar HaEmes.
2Ti 2:16 But profane chatter bereft of kedushah, avoid, for such will advance that which is frai (irreligious).

This is just your opinion. I think I would take Strong's definition, who gives three possibilities, before yours, which is denying it. The sign of a dishonest scholar:

Go right ahead-Ladies first @Hepzibah

But really, in action they should have the same result - freed from sin, which is the reason Christ came.

Is justified (dedikaiōtai). Perfect passive indicative of dikaioō, stands justified, set free from, adding this great word to death and life of Rom_6:1, Rom_6:2.

his is an area where I have not worked through fully since revelation I received on it and my personal experience. I apologise.

Right-revelatory and experiential experiences.

EXPE'RIENCE, n. [L. experientia, from experior, to try; ex and ant. perior; Gr. to attempt, whence pirate. Eng. to fare.The L. periculum, Eng. peril, are from the same root. We see the root of these words is to go, to fare, to drive, urge or press, to strain or stretch forward.
1. Trial, or a series of trials or experiments; active effort or attempt to do or to prove something, or repeated efforts. A man attempts to raise wheat on moist or clayey ground; his attempt fails of success; experience proves that wheat will not flourish on such a soil. He repeats the trial, and his experience proves the same fact. A single trial is usually denominated an experiment; experience may be a series of trials, or the result of such trials.
2. Observation of a fact or of the same facts or events happening under like circumstances.
3. Trial from suffering or enjoyment; suffering itself; the use of the senses; as the experience we have of pain or sickness. We know the effect of light, of smell or of taste by experience. We learn the instability of human affairs by observation or by experience. We learn the value of integrity by experience. Hence,
4. Knowledge derived from trials, use, practice, or from a series of observations.
EXPE'RIENCE, v.t. To try by use, by suffering or by enjoyment. Thus we all experience pain, sorrow and pleasure; we experience good and evil; we often experience a change of sentiments and views.
1. To know by practice or trial; to gain knowledge or skill by practice or by a series of observations.
Webster.

This has been a wonderful "experience" to me @Hepzibah and do take note, I am not facetious toward you.

J.

 

[Johann]

I've never thought to define the role of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps I would say it's God's power and presence with us and in us on earth. How would you define or describe it? He does so many things I 'm not sure I can define it.

Prayer doesn't contradict that we are Christ's body on earth. We as His body do pray for God's will to be done on earth, as Jesus did.

I'm sure you do @Lizbeth.
J.

 

[Johann]

@Johann:
Always open to correction brother-unfortunately this is not a teaching forum since we can go deeper into Romans 6,7& 8 but alas!
Shalom.

You may add or correct @marks-I am not always "right" and don't want to bring in my biases or presuppositions and fall into another ditch!

Why the dishonesty @Hepzibah?

J.

 

[Johann]

Katargeo Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 27

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
   1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
   2. to deprive of force, influence, power
2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
3. to cease, to pass away, be done away
   1. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
   2. to terminate all intercourse with one

Romans 6:6 (Lexham Bible)

"knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [him], in order that the body of sin may be done away with, that we may no longer be enslaved to sin."


τοῦτο (touto)

Strong's G3778
Part of Speech: Demonstrative Pronoun (DPro-ANS: Accusative Neuter Singular)
Translation: "this"
Grammar: Accusative case (direct object of the verb "knowing"), neuter singular. Refers to the specific knowledge being introduced.
γινώσκοντες (ginōskontes)

Strong's G1097
Part of Speech: Verb (V-PPA-NMP: Present Active Participle, Nominative Masculine Plural)
Translation: "knowing"
Grammar: Present active participle in the nominative case. Describes the ongoing action of those (we) who "know."
ὅτι (hoti)

Strong's G3754
Part of Speech: Conjunction (Conj)
Translation: "that"
Grammar: Conjunction introducing the content of what is known.
ὁ (ho)

Strong's G3588
Part of Speech: Article (Art-NMS: Nominative Masculine Singular)
Translation: "the"
Grammar: Definite article introducing "old man" (anthrōpos).
παλαιὸς (palaios)

Strong's G3820
Part of Speech: Adjective (Adj-NMS: Nominative Masculine Singular)
Translation: "old"
Grammar: Adjective modifying "man." Refers to the old or former self before salvation.
ἡμῶν (hēmōn)

Strong's G1473
Part of Speech: Personal Pronoun (PPro-G1P: Genitive 1st Person Plural)
Translation: "of us" / "our"
Grammar: Genitive case indicating possession. Refers to "our" old man.
ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos)

Strong's G444
Part of Speech: Noun (N-NMS: Nominative Masculine Singular)
Translation: "man"
Grammar: Nominative case, masculine singular. Refers to the "old man," the former self.
συνεσταυρώθη (synestaurōthē)

Strong's G4957
Part of Speech: Verb (V-AIP-3S: Aorist Indicative Passive, 3rd Person Singular)
Translation: "was crucified with"
Grammar: Aorist tense (indicating a past, completed action), passive voice (the action was done to the old man), 3rd person singular.
ἵνα (hina)

Strong's G2443
Part of Speech: Conjunction (Conj)
Translation: "so that" / "in order that"
Grammar: Purpose clause, introducing the reason for the crucifixion of the old man.
καταργηθῇ (katargēthē)

Strong's G2673
Part of Speech: Verb (V-ASP-3S: Aorist Subjunctive Passive, 3rd Person Singular)
Translation: "might be annulled" / "done away with"
Grammar: Aorist subjunctive, passive voice, indicating the purpose or result of the crucifixion—that the "body of sin" is annulled.

Our old man (ho palaios hēmōn anthrōpos). Only in Paul (here, Col_3:9; Eph_4:22).
Was crucified with him (sunestaurōthē). See note on Gal_2:20 for this boldly picturesque word. This took place not at baptism, but only pictured there. It took place when “we died to sin” (Rom_6:1).
The body of sin (to sōma tēs hamartias). “The body of which sin has taken possession” (Sanday and Headlam), the body marked by sin.
That so we should no longer be in bondage to sin (tou mēketi douleuein hēmas tēi hamartiāi). Purpose clause with tou and the present active infinitive of douleuō, continue serving sin (as slaves). Adds “slavery” to living in sin (Rom_6:2).

The phrase body of sin denotes the body belonging to, or ruled by, the power of sin, in which the members are instruments of unrighteousness (Rom_6:13). Not the body as containing the principle of evil in our humanity, since Paul does not regard sin as inherent in, and inseparable from, the body (see Rom_6:13; 2Co_4:10-12; 2Co_7:1. Compare Mat_15:19), nor as precisely identical with the old man, an organism or system of evil dispositions, which does not harmonize with Rom_6:12, Rom_6:13, where Paul uses body in the strict sense. “Sin is conceived as the master, to whom the body as slave belongs and is obedient to execute its will. As the slave must perform his definite functions, not because he in himself can perform no others, but because of His actually subsistent relationship of service he may perform no others, while of himself he might belong as well to another master and render other services; so the earthly σῶμα body belongs not of itself to the ἁμαρτία sin, but may just as well belong to the Lord (1Co_6:13), and doubtless it is de facto enslaved to sin, so long as a redemption from this state has not set in by virtue of the divine Spirit” (Rom_7:24 : Dickson).
VWP

Destroyed
See on Rom_3:3.
He that is dead (ὁ ἀποθανὼν)
Rev., literally, he that hath died. In a physical sense. Death and its consequences are used as the general illustration of the spiritual truth. It is a habit of Paul to throw in such general illustrations. See Rom_7:2.

Nothing here of "eradication" of the old man in being co-crucified with Christ Jesus @Hepzibah-but we are "dead to it, or supposed to--

be done away with [destroyed] -- NET "no longer dominate us"; NCV "have no power over us". Continuing the illustration of "crucifixion" it means "be put to death". In converstion to Christ Paul is saying the sinful way of life should be a dead thing, and it becomes a thing of the past by what Christ himself did on the cross.

It stands to reason if your "old man is somehow surgically removed" you have no need for sanctification-the outworking of sanctification.


τὸ (to)
Strong's G3588
Part of Speech: Article (Art-NNS: Nominative Neuter Singular)
Translation: "the"
Grammar: Definite article, neuter singular, introducing "body."
σῶμα (sōma)
Strong's G4983
Part of Speech: Noun (N-NNS: Nominative Neuter Singular)
Translation: "body"
Grammar: Nominative case, neuter singular. Refers to the physical body but in the sense of being dominated by sin.
τῆς (tēs)
Strong's G3588
Part of Speech: Article (Art-GFS: Genitive Feminine Singular)
Translation: "of the"
Grammar: Definite article, genitive case, introducing "sin" as possessive.
ἁμαρτίας (hamartias)
Strong's G266
Part of Speech: Noun (N-GFS: Genitive Feminine Singular)
Translation: "sin"
Grammar: Genitive case, feminine singular. Indicates possession: the "body of sin."
τοῦ (tou)
Strong's G3588
Part of Speech: Article (Art-GNS: Genitive Neuter Singular)
Translation: "that" (implied)
Grammar: Definite article, used in a possessive construction.
μηκέτι (mēketi)
Strong's G3371
Part of Speech: Adverb (Adv)
Translation: "no longer"
Grammar: Adverb indicating the cessation of an action (enslavement to sin).
δουλεύειν (douleuein)
Strong's G1398
Part of Speech: Verb (V-PNA: Present Infinitive Active)
Translation: "to be enslaved"
Grammar: Present active infinitive. Refers to ongoing servitude or slavery, with the implication of sin as the master.
ἡμᾶς (hēmas)
Strong's G1473
Part of Speech: Personal Pronoun (PPro-A1P: Accusative 1st Person Plural)
Translation: "we/us"
Grammar: Accusative case, indicating the object of enslavement (we are the ones no longer enslaved).
τῇ (tē)
Strong's G3588
Part of Speech: Article (Art-DFS: Dative Feminine Singular)
Translation: "to the"
Grammar: Definite article introducing the dative noun "sin."
ἁμαρτίᾳ (hamartia)
Strong's G266
Part of Speech: Noun (N-DFS: Dative Feminine Singular)
Translation: "sin"
Grammar: Dative case, feminine singular. The object of enslavement—enslaved "to sin."

Any of this make sense?

J.

 

[Hepzibah]

@Johann wrote: Now since you have committed an act of sin, by calling me "dishonest" you need to repent, come back on track, and study to show yourself a woman approved by rightly cutting straight the D'var of YHVH.

I think rather it should be you repenting, as I did not accuse you, I only mentioned that an honest scholar would not pretend that there were not more than his own interpretation from the Greek which is the truth. You identified it as being you

As for the rest, I asked you once not to come bulldozing in on my thread instead of having a discussion and not with reams of words, which I noticed you being asked not to do this by a least one other member.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm sure you do @Lizbeth.
J.

Think prayer itself can be seen to be part of the ploughing and preparing the soil of our hearts on a personal level: "rend your hearts and not your garments", "break up your fallow ground", and "by reason of breakings they purify themselves." I wonder if even in allowing our hearts to be broken for others in interceding for them if that helps to plough their fallow ground too in making way for the Lord to work on their heart.

"It's not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord." Do you believe this? Does that kind of sum up the role of the Holy Spirit? Our weapons are not carnal.

Yesterday was a God-blessed day for me. It started out badly and I was feeling overwhelmed and rattled and no idea how to solve the problem.....but the Lord had mercy and swooped in and solved the problem in two minutes. Then the devil was trying to mess other things up and I abandoned myself to God's will and He took over and turned everything around into a blessing and led me in triumph over the devil, and it all gave me some blessed refreshing.....and I learned from it all as well. About being pliable and resting in Him. This was an example to me of God working by His Spirit, because God IS spirit. When we try to handle things in our own strength (instead of resting in Him) we are actually hardening ourselves and not being pliable. The Potter needs our clay to be soft and pliable to be able to work with it....softened soil. It's hard to break the habit of self-reliance and our own works, when the Lord wants us to rely on HIM, His spirit. The Promised Land is a land of rest from our own slavery and toil to allow God to work. That is the rest that He is trying to lead us to. Adam's fall was a fall into labour and toil by the sweat of his own brow and the ground being so difficult and unyielding to yield a crop...and Eve being in pain and labour to bring forth fruit of the womb. So many wonderful lessons of scripture.

 

[Johann]

@Johann wrote: Now since you have committed an act of sin, by calling me "dishonest" you need to repent, come back on track, and study to show yourself a woman approved by rightly cutting straight the D'var of YHVH.

I think rather it should be you repenting, as I did not accuse you, I only mentioned that an honest scholar would not pretend that there were not more than his own interpretation from the Greek which is the truth. You identified it as being you

As for the rest, I asked you once not to come bulldozing in on my thread instead of having a discussion and not with reams of words, which I noticed you being asked not to do this by a least one other member.

You are dishonest as I have told @marks this Forum is not for teaching @Hepzibah.
I am even prepared to help you with basic Grammar and have no ill feelings toward you.
As for "the reams" it is Scripture that you are having a problem with with no commentary and do not understand what is presented to you.

You have a blessed day.
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

I think we just should not always take things of scripture too literally.....they were written for the heart/spirit, our inner man, to convey spiritual truths in a picture, not for the logical literal mind of the natural man.