I hate myself, and hate being an atheist.

[Cerraco]

If there is no God, then your belief logically excludes the concept of resurrection -> If there is no resurrection, Jesus would still be dead and buried in the tomb.

I'm not gonna sugar coat this, that's a very good point, but these are things that happened 2000 years ago. We don't have pictures, videos, etc. due to how long ago that was. All we have is not only the literature, but we must analyze literary style and use that to help us determine if something really happened or not. Even Wikipedia states that the crucifixion of Jesus is something that happened. Not "according to the Bible, this happened" Wikipedia just says... it happened. But a lot of people got crucified in those times.

If I'm following a monkey-people religion, then am I wrong? How did the world start then?

 

[Matthias]

I'm not gonna sugar coat this, that's a very good point, but these are things that happened 2000 years ago. We don't have pictures, videos, etc. due to how long ago that was.

You‘ve said that you believe Jesus was crucified. Why do you believe it? Do you believe it because Wikipedia says it happened?

If there was a picture or a video of the resurrected Jesus, would you believe it?

All we have is not only the literature, but we must analyze literary style and use that to help us determine if something really happened or not.

There is eye-witness testimony that it happened. (There is also eye-witness testimony that he was made alive again.) What do you suppose is the literary style of the witnesses?

Even Wikipedia states that the crucifixion of Jesus is something that happened. Not "according to the Bible, this happened" Wikipedia just says... it happened. But a lot of people got crucified in those times.

If the Bible isn’t the source of the Wikipedia statement, what is? And why believe it?

If I'm following a monkey-people religion, then am I wrong?

Since you’ve asked me, a retired pastor, for my opinion, I’ll give it to you. Yes, you’re wrong. Your ancestors weren’t apes.

How did the world start then?

A long time ago you read for yourself in the Bible how the world started.

 

[Matthias]

If I'm following a monkey-people religion, then am I wrong?

From my X / Twitter feed this morning.

“Apes are not your ancestors.
You were created in the image of God.”

x.com

x.com

This is along the same lines as my reply to you, but better.

You will have read this long ago in the Bible. I see in all human beings (with one exception, Jesus of Nazareth) - even in you, an “anti-atheist atheist” - a tarnished image of God, the creator.

 

[Cerraco]

Then why does science give an excruciatingly overwhelming amount of evidence proving we are descended from apes?

 

[Matthias]

Then why does science give an excruciatingly overwhelming amount of evidence proving we are descended from apes?

I don’t see any proof that man is descended from apes. Evolution is rightly called a theory. How far back have some scientists - as you know, or should, not all do - thought man descended from apes?

When you see apes do you really think of them, treat them, as your relatives? As you think of and treat your fellow human beings?

 

[Spyder]

If there is "overwhelming evidence," I've never seen it.

I think there are several missing links in that theory.

 

[Cerraco]

I don’t see any proof that man is descended from apes. Evolution is rightly called a theory. How far back have some scientists - as you know, or should, not all do - thought man descended from apes?

When you see apes do you really think of them, treat them, as your relatives? As you think of and treat your fellow human beings?

So countless years of DNA tests and science: not proof.
2000-year-old books that says something: trust me bro, that's proof.

That last question is really confusing me. What does that have to do with anything? Evolution is not perfect, but I can't fathom how anyone can use the bible like a history book - at least the entire bible.

 

[RedFan]

Then why does science give an excruciatingly overwhelming amount of evidence proving we are descended from apes?

Because it's true. The Genesis creation story should not be taken literally. It's value lies in its overarching message of God as creator. Man's evolution from ancient primates is consistent with that overarching message.

 

[Matthias]

So countless years of DNA tests and science: not proof.

I have DNA tests and science: proof that all of my ancestors are human beings.

2000-year-old books that says something: trust me bro, that's proof.

No. That’s faith.

That last question is really confusing me. What does that have to do with anything?

Do you believe your ancestors are apes? Are apes not your relatives?

 

[Spyder]

So countless years of DNA tests and science: not proof.
2000-year-old books that says something: trust me bro, that's proof.

That last question is really confusing me. What does that have to do with anything? Evolution is not perfect, but I can't fathom how anyone can use the bible like a history book - at least the entire bible.

The bible is not a history book. It is a revelation book teaching about God and His people. It is also a book about God's plan for the future of the Earth. While history is revealed in part (and archeology proves it accurate), this purpose is not a history text.

Just was about DNA proves evolution true?

 

[MatthewG]

I hate myself sometimes too dude, and it’s just part of life. I’m not no perfect human or anything. Yahavah even knows when I tell him of my failures and continues to love me, and he loves you too, @Cerraco.

There was times where some of the people in the Old Testament just says “God kill me.”

 

[Matthias]

“Anti-atheist atheist” -> a man at war with himself; a futile war that he can’t win by himself.

What does that do to the mind of that man?

 

[Cerraco]

Yes, I believe my are ancestors in one way or another. Telling me that God created the universe is not the most ridiculous thing I've heard. I could actually get behind theistic evolution, maybe. But telling me the Earth is 6000-10000 years old and that we were created from Adam and Eve is not something that lands.

I love when people say, "I don't believe in evolution." That's like saying "I don't believe in oxygen or the sky." It exists whether you think it does or not. Evolution is still there even if you don't believe we were created that way. Is every science book wrong, then? So the skeletal remains of archaic humans are fake then? Is Wikipedia dead wrong in saying how humans were formed?

 

[RedFan]

Yes, I believe my are ancestors in one way or another. Telling me that God created the universe is not the most ridiculous thing I've heard. I could actually get behind theistic evolution, maybe. But telling me the Earth is 6000-10000 years old and that we were created from Adam and Eve is not something that lands.

I love when people say, "I don't believe in evolution." That's like saying "I don't believe in oxygen or the sky." It exists whether you think it does or not. Evolution is still there even if you don't believe we were created that way. Is every science book wrong, then? So the skeletal remains of archaic humans are fake then? Is Wikipedia dead wrong in saying how humans were formed?

The validity of evolution has been proven to my satisfaction. What I cannot understand is why that would trouble any Bible-believing theist. It certainly wouldn't if they recognized that the Genesis creation stories are allegorical and metaphorical.

 

[Matthias]

Evolutionists -> we’ve been informed in this thread, believe themselves and all of mankind to be descendants of apes.

Adam -> son of God (scripture); son of apes (evolutionists) or didn’t ever literally exist (evolutionists).

Jesus of Nazareth -> Son of God, human ancestors back to Adam (scripture); son of apes (evolutionists) or didn’t ever literally exist (evolutionists).

Wikipedia is more believable than the Bible -> deserving of total destruction in the lake of fire. (Let them either repent or roll their eyes and gnash their teeth.)

Is there anything else about your situation that you would like to discuss with me @Cerraco? If not, I don’t have anything further to add in regard to your plight.

 

[Cerraco]

I could only imagine how many times "lake of fire" is heard and said in Christianity.

A few things I brought up were glossed over and not really answered, but I don't know if that would matter. I can feel myself imploding, and my permanent solutions I have in my head may or may not help me. Discovering Jesus, by extension, might be a solution in a sense, but doesn't quite tackle the more... practical problems? I'm sorry, maybe this wasn't the place to post this thread.

 

[Matthias]

I could only imagine how many times "lake of fire" is heard and said in Christianity.

It‘s a fundamental component of Christianity. For comparison sake, imagine atheism absent the fundamental component of denying the existence of God.

A few things I brought up were glossed over and not really answered, but I don't know if that would matter. I can feel myself imploding, and my permanent solutions I have in my head may or may not help me. Discovering Jesus, by extension, might be a solution in a sense, but doesn't quite tackle the more... practical problems? I'm sorry, maybe this wasn't the place to post this thread.

I’m sorry that I wasn’t able to help you.

An observation. I think you may actually be looking for and hoping to find a satisfactory non-Christian solution to your problem. (You’ve come across to me as an anti-atheist atheist defending atheism tooth and nail, hating it and yourself.) IF that really is the case then I don’t think there is a (more) suitable place on Christianity Board to place your thread.

I wish you well as you continue to grapple with the problem.

 

[Cerraco]

It‘s a fundamental component of Christianity. For comparison sake, imagine atheism absent the fundamental component of denying the existence of God.

General view: "If you're good, you go to heaven. Most likely."
Christian view (for some): "If you're good and follow these very specific Christian things (no other religion, just this one) then you possibly... maybe... might get into heaven."

An observation. I think you may actually be looking for and hoping to find a satisfactory non-Christian solution to your problem. (You’ve come across to me as an anti-atheist atheist defending atheism tooth and nail, hating it and yourself.) IF that really is the case then I don’t think there is a (more) suitable place on Christianity Board to place your thread.

There were some good bits of advice here and there, but some people were leaning toward "go with god and pray and stuff and your problems will vanish". I also asked how the mechanics of God worked when things didn't make sense to me, and a lot of those questions were skipped over. I had an extremely vivid dream about how to "make all this go away" and it was absolutely frightening, possibly one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Being a 36-year-old virgin in the shallow United States of all places (which isn't the only problem I'm facing)... at this point, it's like fighting an uphill battle where the hill gets infinitely steeper until it becomes an actual wall. Not sure what God's "plan" is when some people win and some people don't.

 

[Matthias]

General view: "If you're good, you go to heaven. Most likely."
Christian view (for some): "If you're good and follow these very specific Christian things (no other religion, just this one) then you possibly... maybe... might get into heaven."

There were some good bits of advice here and there, but some people were leaning toward "go with god and pray and stuff and your problems will vanish". I also asked how the mechanics of God worked when things didn't make sense to me, and a lot of those questions were skipped over. I had an extremely vivid dream about how to "make all this go away" and it was absolutely frightening, possibly one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Being a 36-year-old virgin in the shallow United States of all places (which isn't the only problem I'm facing)... at this point, it's like fighting an uphill battle where the hill gets infinitely steeper until it becomes an actual wall. Not sure what God's "plan" is when some people win and some people don't.

Straight talk. God has no plan for you. You’re on your own.

He doesn’t desire your death and takes no pleasure in it.

 

[Cerraco]

Straight talk. God has no plan for you. You’re on your own.

Then why the sweet hell did he create people? Just to worship him and boost his ego?