Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?

[face2face]

@Beebster

“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation Jn 5:28–29.

Can you see what the Lord is teaching?

Mortal to everlasting life
Mortal to everlasting death

What is Anastasis?

A rising up, a standing up (from the root ANISTEMI, to stand up, to cause to rise) is used 42 times in the N.T. and is translated 39 times ‘resurrection’, once ‘rising again’, once ‘raised to life again’, and once ‘that should rise’.

Resurrection is therefore the standing up of dead ones. The resurrection will be a virtual recreation of former beings into exactly the same mental, moral and physical state that they possessed prior to their death –

So then let those who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls (lives) to a faithful Creator, as they do good. 1 Pe 4:19.

It is the lives of those believers who are entrusted with God.

F2F

 

[Beebster]

“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation Jn 5:28–29.

Can you see what the Lord is teaching?

Well, I can see what you're teaching, which is just not true.
Why would you take that literally?
I think you would do well to understand that that when Jesus spoke, it was very rare that his words had literal meaning.
And that holds true for Jn 5:28-29

Mortal to everlasting life
Mortal to everlasting death

No. Christ and his elect will reign for an age (not everlasting).
Interestingly enough the very same chapter you insist that I don't understand tells us this:

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (1Co 15:24-25)

What Christ has and what the Elect will have is immortality. If you wish to call that "everlasting life" knock yourself out, but just know it is improper and when you do that you bypass the age where judgment takes place. That is a very special age, it holds a purpose that is taught throughout scripture.

And the term "everlasting death" makes no sense at all. Especially in light of, oddly enough in the same chapter:

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (1Co 15:54)

Those you condemn, by your teaching, would include most of God's church whether they be Jew or gentile and the rest of humanity.

What you're missing is the scriptural fact that it is the Elect that bring the rest of humanity to SALVATION.

What is Anastasis?

A rising up, a standing up (from the root ANISTEMI, to stand up, to cause to rise) is used 42 times in the N.T. and is translated 39 times ‘resurrection’, once ‘rising again’, once ‘raised to life again’, and once ‘that should rise’.

You don't need legs to stand. People stand up for their rights, people stand up for other people, people stand up for the Word of God etc..etc..

I suppose you take this literally as well:

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Rev 20:12)

Resurrection is therefore the standing up of dead ones. The resurrection will be a virtual recreation of former beings into exactly the same mental, moral and physical state that they possessed prior to their death –

Well, your half right.
They will have their mental and moral state revived, then judgment, then salvation,

So then let those who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls (lives) to a faithful Creator, as they do good. 1 Pe 4:19.

Bingo! Your soul is your life, not your physical body. Your physical body does not sin, YOU DO.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Eze 18:4)

 

[face2face]

Well, I can see what you're teaching, which is just not true.
Why would you take that literally?
I think you would do well to understand that that when Jesus spoke, it was very rare that his words had literal meaning.
And that holds true for Jn 5:28-29

You can't do that, you know?

Take the Lord's very specific words on the subject, explain it away without dealing with it, and then move on to what you think is true.

Let's test your theory shall we?

“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation Jn 5:28–29.

Provide your interpratation within the context of the passage.

The earth shook and the rocks were split apart. 27:52 And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Mt 27:51–52.

The evidence is with me Beebster.

I didn't read the rest of your post and will only do so when the Lord's teaching is given due respect.

F2F

 

[Beebster]

You can't do that, you know?

Take the Lord's very specific words on the subject, explain it away without dealing with it, and then move on to what you think is true.

How do you know I "explain[ed] it away without dealing with it, and then move[d] on to what think is true" when you say:

I didn't read the rest of your post and will only do so when the Lord's teaching is given due respect.

I don't think you're being honest.

 

[face2face]

How do you know I "explain[ed] it away without dealing with it, and then move[d] on to what think is true" when you say:

I don't think you're being honest.

Go back and look at how you treated that text.

You said "its not literal"...then you moved on as though that text held no interest to you at all - and I'm not being honest?

“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation Jn 5:28–29.

Provide your interpratation within the context of the passage.

The earth shook and the rocks were split apart. 27:52 And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Mt 27:51–52.

Not only have I given you two passages:

1. The Lords teachings on the subject
2. An actual event which is clear as day!

Both verses are in harmony with each other - not spiritualised as you would have it.

Take your time and have a look for yourself and don't be so quick to explain it away and not give an explanation in the process.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (1Co 15:24-25)

What Christ has and what the Elect will have is immortality. If you wish to call that "everlasting life" knock yourself out, but just know it is improper and when you do that you bypass the age where judgment takes place. That is a very special age, it holds a purpose that is taught throughout scripture.

No problem with this Beebster!

Remember I am proving to you the dead are raised as precisely the same people, flesh & blood, thoughts memories, everything UNTIL they are judged and changed

And the term "everlasting death" makes no sense at all. Especially in light of, oddly enough in the same chapter:

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (1Co 15:54)

Many (not all) of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake— some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence Da 12:2.

Maybe the verses I am showing you are new to you? I don't know how well studied you are???

Those not raised remain in the earth, however those raised to judgement will receive either eternal life / everlasting life or everlasting death / shame etc.

In the end the memory of them will be forgotten.

The swallowing up of death is to occur when Christ makes his final judgement at the end of his reign and the end of this age / epoch takes place death will be no more! Yes, there will be death during the reign of Christ but once God is All and in All death is completely gone.

Those you condemn, by your teaching, would include most of God's church whether they be Jew or gentile and the rest of humanity.

What you're missing is the scriptural fact that it is the Elect that bring the rest of humanity to SALVATION.


You don't need legs to stand. People stand up for their rights, people stand up for other people, people stand up for the Word of God etc..etc..

I suppose you take this literally as well:

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Rev 20:12)

You seem to struggle with interpreting what is literal and what is symbolic?

What does the sea represent in the Apocolypse?

20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each one was judged according to his deeds. Re 20:13.

I still find it odd you are constantly providing passages which prove what is true, yet you are not speaking consistantly with it?

Odd.

Well, your half right.
They will have their mental and moral state revived, then judgment, then salvation,

Another study....soul just means the life of a person, can mean body...i.e a soul can die, eat, laugh etc etc.

Bingo! Your soul is your life, not your physical body.

If you want me to go through all the uses of Soul in the Bible I can but I think you have enough already on your plate.

Your physical body does not sin, YOU DO.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Eze 18:4)

Yes, the whole of the person shall die.

Whatsoever thy soul lusteth after. Deut. 14:26. (of the flesh = body)

Every man (Marg. ref., soul) must eat. Exo. 12:16. (of the flesh = body)
Our soul is dried away, there is nothing at all besides this manna. Num. 11:5, 6. (physical food for the body)
Because thy soul longeth to eat flesh. Deut. 12:20, 15, 21. (obvious)
Our soul loatheth this light bread. Num. 21:5.
His soul is empty … and his soul hath appetite Isa. 29:8.
For meat to relieve the soul

If you want more references let me know

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Beebster The Bible presents the Soul in the following way:

A soul can be born
A soul can live
A soul can eat and drink
A soul can die
A soul can be saved from the grave

There is no teaching in the Bible of person being in possession of an immortal soul

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no teaching in the Bible of person being in possession of an immortal soul

What do you make of this?

Revelation 20:4 NIV
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[

 

[face2face]

What do you make of this?

Revelation 20:4 NIV
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[

Good quote.

This is referring to the "souls" last seen "under the (Christ) altar" in Rev 6:9.

Now when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls (lives) of those who had been violently killed because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had given Re 6:9.

It's vision language isn't it? It's what Christ had witnessed from Heaven like those of Stephen etc.

Those persecuted to the death are now revealed in glory, resurrected and ruling on thrones provided for them! (still unfulfilled!)

Their "souls" represent their "lives" which previously were given over to death. In Rev. 6:9-11, they are represented as pleading for vengeance. The judgment now meted out to the nations by the saints is payment in kind for that which they suffered previously. They sacrificed their lives to serve Christ.

"life" and "soul" are both given as translations for nephesh, and the statement is made that: blood represents life or soul. John saw the blood of the slain which was representative of their lives, or souls, poured out on the Christ-altar. The figure is obviously drawn from Leviticus 17.

Hope that helps...if you need to make more of a connection between those lives and blood shed and the link to the blood on the alter let me know.

Also, don't forget the Revelation is highly symbolic langauge so interpreting the symbol is important.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@St. SteVen if you want further reading on this the law of the altar is given in Exod. 20:24-25; Deut. 27:5.

As the altar, he (Jesus) was Deity in sacrificial manifestation (not God, but God revealed through Christ) (Heb. 13:10).

We have an altar that those who serve in the tabernacle have no right to eat from. Heb 13:10.

The altar was first cleansed, and then it made holy those who touched it (Exod. 29:37).

We touch the Christ altar when we are "brought near" by baptism. We are then "in Christ' or the Altar. Those who die "in Christ" are "under the altar," "sleeping in Jesus," dwelling in the dust.

Those in your quote (Rev 20:4) have been killed for their faith and like the blood of Abel, their blood pleads for vengence!

Maybe you didn't realise this when you quoted it but what John saw in vision was blood poured-out in sacrifice, and splashed upon the Christ altar.

It's a graphic scene one which will not be fully realised until those are raised and glorified for their faithfulness.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Beebster

I will assume you have read my response to St Stephen and to further prove this truth, we are told "For the LIFE (Heb. nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh= LIVES); for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul (nephesh= LIFE)."

Quite possibly one of the most important verses in the Bible and 95% of Christianity do not understand it, or our how it realates to the Lord Jesus Christ.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic alert.

A Word for the church (four actually) concerning worship.

My wife shared a point from her devotional reading this morning. "You praise until the spirit of worship comes, you worship until the glory comes, then you stand in the glory." - Ruth Ward Heflin - Praise - Worship - Glory - Stand What it means to me. Praise is the obedient action that we use...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Beebster]

This is something you said to St.Steven.

Also, don't forget the Revelation is highly symbolic langauge so interpreting the symbol is important.

“[H]ighly sybolic?” If I had to guess I’d say 99% symbolic.

Why is that? Because it is the revealing of Jesus Christ. And that is how Jesus Christ speaks.

And Jesus Christ does not change:

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (for the aion). (Heb_13:8 )

You said:

You seem to struggle with interpreting what is literal and what is symbolic?

No I don’t, the whole bible is symbolic. It is one giant parable.

So when we read this:

“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation Jn 5:28–29.

-It also is symbolic not literal.

If it were literal we’d have to believe everyone was entombed right? Well we know that’s not true.
We’d also have to believe every one would have to have ears. Well, that leaves out those that have had their ears lopped off or perhaps those that weren’t born with ears. And how in the world would deaf people hear. Physically dead people cannot hear anything; they are dead.

Dead people will be raised from their graves:

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Rev 20:13)

These people are STILL DEAD and we all know through experience that physically dead bodies can do NOTHING because they are dead.

You offer this passage:

The earth shook and the rocks were split apart. 27:52 And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Mt 27:51–52.

And then say this:

Not only have I given you two passages:

1. The Lords teachings on the subject
2. An actual event which is clear as day!

So my question to you is: What happened to those saints “who had died were raised.”

Especially in light of what you say here:

Those persecuted to the death are now revealed in glory, resurrected and ruling on thrones provided for them! (still unfulfilled!)

You are right when you say “still unfulfilled!” so again, what became of those saints “who had died were raised.”

Were they truly resurrected?

That, f2f, is a shadow of the reality to come, and it is not physical resurrection.

 

[Beebster]

Christ spoke to everyone in parables and proverbs yet you seem to think he spoke clearly. Even when he explained parables to his disciples he still didn’t speak plainly.


All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: (Mat13:34 )

Is this clear:

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. (Luk 8:11-15)

Maybe to those of us who have the New Testament to help us, this may seem clear, BUT THEY DID NOT!

You keep saying that the soul and the physical body are one in the same. They are not.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,- (Gen 2:7)

There is your lifeless physical body of the ground which it will go back and remain:

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19) (By the way do you see the spritual massage there?)

ALL go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. (Ecc 3:20)

Gen 2:7 cont.
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

That is the spirit of God; without it you can do nothing.

For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)

Gen 2:7 cont.
and man became a living soul.

So the question is: do you need a physical body to become a living soul? And the answer is NO!


And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. (Lev 26:11)


Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. (Jer 32:41)

See, God has a soul but not a physical body.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. (1Ti_1:17 )

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Col 1:16)

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (Joh_6:63)

Get that through your head: "the flesh profiteth nothing"

The flesh does not even profit in death. It is the death of the soul that matters.

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1Co 15:31)

Paul is not speaking of his physical body he’s speaking of his soul, his character, his mental and moral qualities.

If he were speaking of his physical body then we could all say the same, from buddhists, to muslims to Jews, to atheists, to those that never even heard the Word of God.


No, your physical body will rot and become dust as scripture states and your soul (YOU) will be revived to face judgment. And that judgment, unless you are one of God’s Elect, will be through the Lake of Fire (the wrath of God) which is the second death, which is God the Father, Christ and his Elect and you will be purified and saved and God will become All in All.

 

[Beebster]

What do you make of this?

Revelation 20:4 NIV
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[

Listen St.Steven

You have a wonderful truth in your heart and that is that ALL will be saved. Never let that go.

You are the one that is beheaded. Any time that someone (usually "Christians") shut you up to the teaching that Christ will save all, they are beheading you.

Jesus Christ will resurrect EVERYONE!

 

[face2face]

Jesus Christ will resurrect EVERYONE!

All of a sudden I'm left wondering why?

 

[face2face]

This is something you said to St.Steven.

“[H]ighly sybolic?” If I had to guess I’d say 99% symbolic.

Yes, agree symbolism is everywhere but in the background real events are being foretold and the raising up of the dead is one of those events.

Why is that? Because it is the revealing of Jesus Christ. And that is how Jesus Christ speaks.

And Jesus Christ does not change:

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (for the aion). (Heb_13:8 )

Not now he can't!

You said:

No I don’t, the whole bible is symbolic. It is one giant parable

So when we read this:

-It also is symbolic not literal.

If it were literal we’d have to believe everyone was entombed right? Well we know that’s not true.
We’d also have to believe every one would have to have ears. Well, that leaves out those that have had their ears lopped off or perhaps those that weren’t born with ears. And how in the world would deaf people hear. Physically dead people cannot hear anything; they are dead.

Dead people will be raised from their graves:

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Rev 20:13)

These people are STILL DEAD and we all know through experience that physically dead bodies can do NOTHING because they are dead.

The sea represents the Nations from which the dead shall rise - thats the connection if you didn't see it?

You offer this passage:

And then say this:

So my question to you is: What happened to those saints “who had died were raised.”

Especially in light of what you say here:


You are right when you say “still unfulfilled!” so again, what became of those saints “who had died were raised.”

Were they truly resurrected?

That, f2f, is a shadow of the reality to come, and it is not physical resurrection.

Those who were raised were not raised to immortality but they returned to the grave to await judgement which will happen at the house of God first.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Christ spoke to everyone in parables and proverbs yet you seem to think he spoke clearly. Even when he explained parables to his disciples he still didn’t speak plainly.

Are you still struggling with

“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation Jn 5:28–29.

Provide your interpratation within the context of the passage.

The earth shook and the rocks were split apart. 27:52 And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Mt 27:51–52.

I thought we moved past this truth?

All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: (Mat13:34 )

Is this clear:

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. (Luk 8:11-15)

Maybe to those of us who have the New Testament to help us, this may seem clear, BUT THEY DID NOT!

You keep saying that the soul and the physical body are one in the same. They are not.

Yes, the soul, be it life or character and body are all one! If you are trying to force some ethereal spirit which wafts off to God when a person dies you are wasting your time, I've search hard for that doctrine and it is not there!

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,- (Gen 2:7)

There is your lifeless physical body of the ground which it will go back and remain:

Yes, and God kick started it with a simple breath! nothing more and nothing less than a breath.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19) (By the way do you see the spritual massage there?)

ALL go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. (Ecc 3:20)

Gen 2:7 cont.
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

No different to the animals!

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. Eccl 3:19

My dog and I breath exactly the same way!...no difference - her breath smells more than mine ;)

That is the spirit of God; without it you can do nothing.

For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)

Gen 2:7 cont.
and man became a living soul.

So the question is: do you need a physical body to become a living soul? And the answer is NO!

LOL

And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. (Lev 26:11)

My life...

Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. (Jer 32:41)

My whole life!

See, God has a soul but not a physical body.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. (1Ti_1:17 )

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Col 1:16)

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (Joh_6:63)

Red is the Power! The Spoken Word and dont forget that!

Get that through your head: "the flesh profiteth nothing"

Agree! It must be changed...

The flesh does not even profit in death. It is the death of the soul that matters.

Flesh and soul are one and the same - your argument has been very poorly put together! Soul is just another word for body, life, person etc etc

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1Co 15:31)

Meaning he suffers for Christ daily!

Paul is not speaking of his physical body he’s speaking of his soul, his character, his mental and moral qualities.

Correct...but you have made no point at all only that he suffers daily for Christ - this has nothing to so with God raising people from the grave in their flesh nature and changing them.

No, your physical body will rot and become dust as scripture states and your soul (YOU) will be revived to face judgment. And that judgment, unless you are one of God’s Elect, will be through the Lake of Fire (the wrath of God) which is the second death, which is God the Father, Christ and his Elect and you will be purified and saved and God will become All in All.

Correct dust returns to dust.

Who is powerful enough to reconstruct the whole body, soul, life etc ?

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Listen St.Steven

You have a wonderful truth in your heart and that is that ALL will be saved. Never let that go.

You are the one that is beheaded. Any time that someone (usually "Christians") shut you up to the teaching that Christ will save all, they are beheading you.

Jesus Christ will resurrect EVERYONE!

Wow. Thank you.
What a wonderful post.

Tribalism is a terrible scourge on the church.

Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ​

A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there​

...happen. What they really want is for everyone to JOIN their doctrinal tribe so that UNITY will happen. Basically unity through division. Tribalism. You are in if you agree, and out if you don't. I think it is wrong to label that as unity, as if tribalism is a virtue. I think unity of the...

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[Beebster]

All of a sudden I'm left wondering why?

Why what?