Poll: Do we worship the God of the old covenant?

[St. SteVen]

So the OT is human perception and not inspiration ?

It's both. IMHO
Anyone who has read it should understand this.

What do you mean by "inspiration"?
- Every word?
- The original manuscripts? (which we do not have)
- The English translation? (which one?)
- The Majority Text, the Critical Text, or the Textus Receptus?
- Which canon? (more than one collection of books)

https://www.bereanpatriot.com/majority-text-vs-critical-text-vs-textus-receptus-textual-criticism-101/#Corruption-of-the-Alexandrian-text-type

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[MatthewG]

Yahavah, is the God of Israel in the Old Testament.
Yeshua, worshiped this very same God, and made his name known.
While people may have issues, perhaps with the use of the name of God, and just wanna use God, or LORD, etc... fine.
But those are titles, as the name of God, is YHVH. What you believe that is saying is up to you, I believe it's Yahavah.
This is was the same Father, which brought forth Yeshua, the Word of God, through the flesh of Mary, born of flesh and spirit.
Yahavah is still the God, which Yeshua worshiped.. and prayed to, in spirit and in truth.


However, ya know... it's subjective.
Greek gods, have names... so does the God of Israel, and it is not just LORD in my opinion...

 

[St. SteVen]

“6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. ”
Exodus 34:6-7 KJV

Compare. (... visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation - Exodus 34:7b)

Jeremiah 31:28-30 NIV
Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster,
so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” declares the Lord. 29 “In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.


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[Spyder]

When we read the O.T. our human minds focus on the things that make an interesting story. I think we skip over very important passages like in Isaiah where Yahweh announces His plans for the future and providing a Messiah to the people. Of course we worship Yahweh, our God. We are living now according to His fulfilled prophecy. He has not changed at all.
Yeshua was sent to God's people - the Hebrew remnant - and initiate the "church" and then sent people out to the gentiles. Yahweh said that His people would include the gentiles and it does. It is not a question "which God" we worship - if we do it in spirit and in truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

When we read the O.T. our human minds focus on the things that make an interesting story. I think we skip over very important passages like in Isaiah where Yahweh announces His plans for the future and providing a Messiah to the people. Of course we worship Yahweh, our God. We are living now according to His fulfilled prophecy. He has not changed at all.
Yeshua was sent to God's people - the Hebrew remnant - and initiate the "church" and then sent people out to the gentiles. Yahweh said that His people would include the gentiles and it does. It is not a question "which God" we worship - if we do it in spirit and in truth.

Good post, Thanks.

My point is that the perception of God in the OT is different than the perception of God in the NT.
Not a different God, but a different perception. The Bible is split into two sections, the Old and the New.
Do the Old Testament and New Testament represent different views of God to you?

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[Lambano]

It's both. IMHO
Anyone who has read it should understand this.

There. Somebody finally said it.

 

[St. SteVen]

There. Somebody finally said it.

Yes, thanks.

Obviously Moses was not present for any of the things he "wrote" about in Genesis.
Where did this information come from?

Moses was educated in the Pharaoh's palace in Egypt and then fled
to tend the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian.
To me, this informs the sources for Moses writing. (if indeed he wrote)

Moses As Author Of The Torah/pentateuch

In my reading of Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" I found his questioning of the authenticity of Moses as the author of the first 5 books of the Bible very convincing and, in my opinion, correct. He begins by disclaiming that the only source he will use to refute the Bible is in fact the...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Carl Emerson]

Not entirely.
The Bible (Scripture) is separated into two parts, The Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant).
What is the reason for this separation into two parts?

Hebrews 8:6 NIV
But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one,
since the new covenant is established on better promises.

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Testament and Covenant are two different animals...

Record and Agreement might be equivalents...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, of course. But to whom was his ministry directed?

Matthew 15:24 NIV
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

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That does not mean the audience was only Jewish and the Israel He referred to may have been the Spiritual Israel which is the Elect of all Nations.


Again a theology from one verse when we know He spoke the message of life to non-Jews.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Where did this information come from?

Where did the information come from that gave Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, John an others accurate predictions.

 

[Spyder]

Good post, Thanks.

My point is that the perception of God in the OT is different than the perception of God in the NT.
Not a different God, but a different perception. The Bible is split into two sections, the Old and the New.
Do the Old Testament and New Testament represent different views of God to you?

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No, Yahweh is still Yahweh. From what I've seen, it is the practice of using the name Lord that confuses the whole issue. Now, when people see that, their reference is muddied. At least, in an O.T. interlinear, we can see who we are reading about. The One True God is the same, and He has not changed.

 

[St. SteVen]

Testament and Covenant are two different animals...

Record and Agreement might be equivalents...

How could Record and Agreement be equivalents?

What is the reason for this separation into two parts?

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[St. SteVen]

Again a theology from one verse when we know He spoke the message of life to non-Jews.

Agree, but interesting, considering the claimed focus of his ministry.

Matthew 15:24 NIV
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

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[St. SteVen]

Where did the information come from that gave Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, John an others accurate predictions.

Why would you compare the Genesis "account" to the Prophets?
The Prophets wrote first-hand about what they were experiencing. Moses did not. (in the Genesis account)
Even the beginning of Exodus was not from experience. Did he remember being placed in the Nile, or being rescued by Pharaoh's daughter?
He was only with his mother long enough to be weaned.

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[St. SteVen]

No, Yahweh is still Yahweh. From what I've seen, it is the practice of using the name Lord that confuses the whole issue. Now, when people see that, their reference is muddied. At least, in an O.T. interlinear, we can see who we are reading about. The One True God is the same, and He has not changed.

No offense intended, but I have never seen that distinction as an issue.
Learning that God's name is Yahweh did not clarify much for me.
I already understood that the OT was referring to the "One True God".

God's name is VERY significant information for some, and just information to others.
Unless I am missing something significant here. Please inform, thanks.

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[Carl Emerson]

How could Record and Agreement be equivalents?

What is the reason for this separation into two parts?

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AD and BC

 

[Carl Emerson]

Agree, but interesting, considering the claimed focus of his ministry.

Matthew 15:24 NIV
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

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If this was to be taken literally He would not have shared the Good News with the woman at the well, unless Israel in this case was a reference to the Elect.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Why would you compare the Genesis "account" to the Prophets?
The Prophets wrote first-hand about what they were experiencing. Moses did not. (in the Genesis account)
Even the beginning of Exodus was not from experience. Did he remember being placed in the Nile, or being rescued by Pharaoh's daughter?
He was only with his mother long enough to be weaned.

]

The Prophets spoke of things to come that would otherwise not be known.

Moses spoke of things past that would otherwise not be known.

Both came from the same source - God Himself who is outside of time.

 

[gpresdo]

We are to worship the one God. ...The God of all...including the two covenants.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Agree, but interesting, considering the claimed focus of his ministry.

Matthew 15:24 NIV
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

If this was to be taken literally He would not have shared the Good News with the woman at the well, unless Israel in this case was a reference to the Elect.

How else could it be taken but literally?
I agree that he didn't adhere to it. The Samaritan and the Canaanite women.

Matthew 15:28 NIV
Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.”
And her daughter was healed at that moment.

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