The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[CadyandZoe]

This doesn't make Amil a crock it confirms it! Because Amil doesn't have some in-between age of one thousand more years when Christ returns when the enemies of Christ are made His footstool (under the earth, consumed by the fire of God), while those who have been saved are changed from mortal & corruptible flesh to immortal & incorruptible flesh to live with Christ throughout eternity on the new earth.

The fact that amill doesn't have an age of a thousand years is why it is incorrect.

 

[rwb]

The fact that amill doesn't have an age of a thousand years is why it is incorrect.

Prove what you allege! Just because you say Amil is incorrect means nothing! Unless you can prove what you allege why should anyone pay attention to your opinions?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Thanks. I asked the question to see whether everyone in this discussion shared a similar view of the tribulation. If not, this might explain why there seems to be wide disagreement.

I agree that the horsemen kicked it off. But I think the horsemen came during the Jewish wars of 68 - 70AD. IOW, the GT began immediately when the temple was destroyed and continues even today. So far, the GT has included the Inquisition, the Holocaust, and the pogroms, among other things. Since the tribulation hasn't ended yet, Jesus' return marks the end of the GT.

In your view, are the trumpets and the bowls included in the GT?
Maybe the Trumpets are included but not the bowls?
What do you think?

The AC rules and REQUIRES the mark ...which is worship.
No buying/ selling with out the mark.
So, the GT is future.

 

[WPM]

The fact that amill doesn't have an age of a thousand years is why it is incorrect.

Really? Are you talking about a literal time period?

 

[MA2444]

Elaborate.

Four verses are too elaborate for you? Wow.

 

[MA2444]

Really? Are you talking about a literal time period?

Yes it is a literal 1000 year period. That's when Israel will receive it's borders like it was laid out in the Promise. It's when the meek inherit the earth.

Every time I was wrong about scripture and I was able to work out the truth ad see it...it always involved reading the text literally.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If only you and others were capable of seeing the truths of Prophecy. But wrong beliefs have trapped you and understanding is far from you.

We do see it. You clearly are not presenting truth with your weak arguments.

I'll try again.
How can Jesus have meant only a family generation? As we do understand it.

Why not? He referred to "THIS generation", not THAT generation. He was referring to a generation that existed at that time. Preterists recognize that, but falsely interpret it as a period of time as you do, so they falsely conclude that Jesus came in 70 AD.

But in the context of His Prophecy, that understanding doesn't fit, it just makes a confusion.

Yet, you can't explain why that is the case. You just make claims and can't back them up, as always.

What does make sense, is how Jesus is referring to all the population alive when the fig tree [and all the trees] become prosperous and fruitful. Excepting Judah, who bears no fruit. [of the holy Spirit]
This fits our situation today.

Whatever you're saying might make sense to you, but you are unable to explain it in a way that makes sense to anyone else.

 

[WPM]

Yes it is a literal 1000 year period. That's when Israel will receive it's borders like it was laid out in the Promise. It's when the meek inherit the earth.

Every time I was wrong about scripture and I was able to work out the truth ad see it...it always involved reading the text literally.

But Revelation is a highly symbolic book. If you are adamant in interpreting a thousand years hyper-literally, how long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

The meek will inherit your millennial earth? Really? Where does it say that? Why then is it overrun with billions of satanists as the sand of the sea at the end?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Prove what you allege! Just because you say Amil is incorrect means nothing! Unless you can prove what you allege why should anyone pay attention to your opinions?

Do you want to hear proof? I'm not sure your challenge is genuine.

 

[WPM]

Do you want to hear proof? I'm not sure your challenge is genuine.

Lol. Have you now become heart-reader and a mind-reader?

 

[CadyandZoe]

The AC rules and REQUIRES the mark ...which is worship.
No buying/ selling with out the mark.
So, the GT is future.

Are you saying that the GT hasn't begun yet?
In your view, will the mark of the beast be enforced worldwide or strictly in Israel? I ask because I am curious about the fact that one beast comes from the sea and another beast comes from the land.

I'm supposing that the sea represents the gentiles and the land represents the Jews living in Israel. Do you agree? What do you think?

 

[MA2444]

But Revelation is a highly symbolic book. If you are adamant in interpreting a thousand years hyper-literally, how long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

The meek will inherit your millennial earth? Really? Where does it say that? Why then is it overrun with billions of satanists as the sand of the sea at the end?

You can read about the Millenium in a few other books of the bible which shines more light on it than Revelation does alone.

The Millenium doesnt even start until after evil is put down and satan is bound for 1000 years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm dealing with the facts. In the days of Noah, Noah is shut in the ark 6 days before the flood. In the days of Lot, the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. Two raptures. One like the days of Noah and one like the days of Lot.

No, you're dealing with your very active imagination which contradicts the facts. Let's look at the text again.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

You say this refers to two raptures. I see only one reference here to "the day when the Son of man is revealed", not two, and it's in verse 30. You are acting as if it says that both at the end of verse 27 and after verse 29, but it only says that once in verse 30. That means He was comparing the ONE "day when the Son of man is revealed" to BOTH "the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all" AND "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all". In no way, shape or form are two raptures referenced in that passage. You have that belief all to yourself for good reason. Because it isn't true and is clearly not taught in that passage.

 

[MA2444]

Lol. Have you now become heart-reader and a mind-reader?

I hear ya! You guys just dont want to have to clarify anything, lol.

And you call yourself a teacher.

 

[Douggg]

But Revelation is a highly symbolic book. If you are adamant in interpreting a thousand years hyper-literally, how long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

The difference between the 1000 years and the one hour is that the text of Revelation 19:7 says after the thousand years are expired.... i.e. putting a cap of on the literal expression.

The one hour, on the other hand, does not have a verse that says after the one hour has expired. Which, the one hour is therefore figurative, not literal. And represents the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Really? Are you talking about a literal time period?

John is talking about a time when Jesus will rule on the earth from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem. The number 1.000 might be literal or it might represent a longer period.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You can read about the Millenium in a few other books of the bible which shines more light on it than Revelation does alone.

The Millenium doesnt even start until after evil is put down and satan is bound for 1000 years.

Right. Satan isn't bound yet.

 

[WPM]

You can read about the Millenium in a few other books of the bible which shines more light on it than Revelation does alone.

The Millenium doesnt even start until after evil is put down and satan is bound for 1000 years.

Your millennium is just a rerun of today. It is full of sin, death, decay, rebellion and wickedness.

 

[WPM]

Right. Satan isn't bound yet.

You have been shown many times that this is a lie.

• Satan is a spiritual being.
• Spiritual chains restraint spiritual beings in Scripture.
• Revelation is saturated in figurative language.
• There is NO other Scripture that corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroyed.
• Scripture teaches that Satan has already fell from heaven and now present in the Abyss (John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9-13). Peter 2:4, Jude v 6 and Revelation 9:1-11 shows the demonic world in a current spiritually bound condition in the abyss.
• Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The difference between the 1000 years and the one hour is that the text of Revelation 19:7 says after the thousand years are expired.... i.e. putting a cap of on the literal expression.

The one hour, on the other hand, does not have a verse that says after the one hour has expired. Which, the one hour is therefore figurative, not literal. And represents the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.

What kind of logic is this? You are arguing that the thousand years has to be literal because it will expire. You say the "one hour" in Rev 17:10 "represents the 42 months of the beast-king's rule". Do you think that the one hour/42 months never expires? I'm pretty sure you don't think that, so why do you not use the same logic that leads you to believe that the thousand years is literal to the "one hour" as well?