The wine of God's wrath in the cup of His indignation

[Spiritual Israelite]

And that is the problem. You cannot SEE it as a future prophecy because of the leaven of the false doctrine you follow.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

But, you are too scared to address my points, so how can I take this seriously? If what you're saying is true, then prove it! Your words mean nothing if you can't back them up with scripture. Stop being afraid to address my points directly! The new covenant that takes away sins was put into effect long ago! That is clearly taught in scripture (Hebrews 8:6-7). But, you say that it doesn't apply to Jacob/Israel until the future which is complete nonsense! If that was the case then no Jews would have been saved under the new covenant in the past almost 2,000 years, but a good number of them have! You won't address this but you still act as if you've proven something. That's weak! It's evidence that you teach a false doctrine when you just say it's true and think your word means something, which it does not apart from scriptural evidence to back it up.

Anyone can claim to have the truth, but you need to back it up with scripture which you are not doing! Instead, you're just foolishly judging me without proving anything. Your arguments are weak and ignore that the Jews have been saved at the same time as Gentiles for the past almost 2,000 year under the new covenant that takes away the sins of anyone who believes, whether they are Jew or Gentile.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Yes you did.

Nope. Has heaven and earth passed away?

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

But, you are too scared to address my points, so how can I take this seriously? If what you're saying is true, then prove it! Your words mean nothing if you can't back them up with scripture.

I already backed it up with scripture but you will not receive the Truth because you are blinded by that false doctrine. I’m not going to waste my time on those who reject the words of God. Good day.

 

[tailgator]

The AOD is fulfilled.

And you believe the resurection took place in 70 AD at that time,Currect?

 

[tailgator]

Nope. Has heaven and earth passed away?

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Then you answered falsely..
It has not been fulfilled.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


Do you believe the day of the Lord was in 70 AD as well,?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I already backed it up with scripture but you will not receive the Truth because you are blinded by that false doctrine. I’m not going to waste my time on those who reject the words of God. Good day.

You're not worth my time. I like to talk to people who don't run away with their tails between their legs while refusing to address the holes in their doctrine that are pointed out. You acknowledge that the new covenant was established by Christ long ago, but then ridiculously claim that it doesn't apply to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in even though a number of Israelites have been saved under the new covenant for the past almost 2,000 years. Will you address this weakness in your doctrine? Of course not because you're too prideful and unteachable.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

And you believe the resurection took place in 70 AD at that time,Currect?

Nope

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Then you answered falsely..

Nope, you understood falsely

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You acknowledge that the new covenant was established by Christ long ago, but then ridiculously claim that it doesn't apply to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in .

There you go again trying to misrepresent what both I and Paul have said about ungodliness being removed from Jacob AFTER the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

That Amil doctrine just will not allow you to believe the words of God. You reject the Truth in order to cling to a lie. But you have been warned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There you go again trying to misrepresent what both I and Paul have said about ungodliness being removed from Jacob AFTER the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

I am not "trying" to misrepresent anything. Show me where it says that ungodliness is removed from Jacob AFTER the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I don't see that. I see ungodliness being removed from the people of Jacob who accept Christ under the new covenant for the past almost 2,000 years and that will continue to be the case UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Do you claim that no one from Jacob has had ungodliness removed yet under the new covenant?

That Amil doctrine just will not allow you to believe the words of God. You reject the Truth in order to cling to a lie. But you have been warned.

I'm warning you that you are risking going to hell by condemning me because you will be judged by the same measure that you're judging me (Matt 7:1-2). YOU have been warned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nope, you understood falsely

Oh, he just understood you falsely by mistake, but when I misunderstand you it's on purpose. Interesting.

 

[tailgator]

Nope

Ok you say you don't believe the resurrection took.place in 70 AD.

Well you believe the tribulation took place in 70 ad,.
Such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time?


This verse.

Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be



You believe there was
Such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time in 70 AD?

 

[tailgator]

Nope, you understood falsely

Ok you say you don't believe the resurrection took.place in 70 AD.

Well you believe the tribulation took place in 70 ad,.
Such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time?


This verse.

Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be



You believe there was
Such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time in 70 AD?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Ok you say you don't believe the resurrection took.place in 70 AD.

Well you believe the tribulation took place in 70 ad,.
Such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time?


This verse.

Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be



You believe there was
Such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time in 70 AD?

There are 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture, the first is to the Jews, then to the Gentiles.

The first began to the saints/Jews when the AOD was set up. This tribulation would run all the way to the fulness of the Gentiles being marked by the 6th seal. Then begins the Great Tribulation upon the whole world. Meantioned here…

Daniel 12

King James Version

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12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[tailgator]

There are 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture, the first is to the Jews, then to the Gentiles.

The first began to the saints/Jews when the AOD was set up. This tribulation would run all the way to the fulness of the Gentiles being marked by the 6th seal. Then begins the Great Tribulation upon the whole world. Meantioned here…

Daniel 12​

​

King James Version​

​

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12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So you believe Jesus is wrong when he said the great tribulation would take place when the abomination of desolation is set up.


Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


All of these verses is speaking about "then"meaning the same time period.These people who are fleeing from.their fields in Judea are fleeing the sight of the abomination of desolation which they can see from their rooftops and fields.



What makes you think Jesus is wrong about the great tribulation ,that the abomination of desolation causes "then' at that time.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

So you believe Jesus is wrong when he said the great tribulation would take place when the abomination of desolation is set up.


Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


All of these verses is speaking about "then"meaning the same time period.These people who are fleeing from.their fields in Judea are fleeing the sight of the abomination of desolation which they can see from their rooftops and fields.



What makes you think Jesus is wrong about the great tribulation ,that the abomination of desolation causes "then' at that time.

Jesus is correct, it is your understanding that is incorrect. The first tribulation to the Jews ends here….

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those daysshall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(6th seal signs)

Mark 13:24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,(6th seal signs)

Luke 21:24-25​

​

King James Version​

​

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24 And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;(6th seal signs)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you believe Jesus is wrong when he said the great tribulation would take place when the abomination of desolation is set up.


Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


All of these verses is speaking about "then"meaning the same time period.These people who are fleeing from.their fields in Judea are fleeing the sight of the abomination of desolation which they can see from their rooftops and fields.



What makes you think Jesus is wrong about the great tribulation ,that the abomination of desolation causes "then' at that time.

Do you deny that great tribulation occurred in Judea in 70 AD? If Jesus's answer to the disciples' first question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed isn't found in Matthew 24:15-21, then where else can His answer to that question be found in Matthew 24?

 

[tailgator]

Jesus is correct, it is your understanding that is incorrect. The first tribulation to the Jews ends here….

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those daysshall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(6th seal signs)

Mark 13:24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,(6th seal signs)

Luke 21:24-25​

​

King James Version​

​

​

24 And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;(6th seal signs)

According to Daniel and revelation ,the tribulation of the Christian Jews is 42 months .A time,times and a half.

Daniel
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.



You said the tribulation of the Jewish Christians lasts for thousands of years but scripture says it only lasts 42 months. As time,times and a half.


There is only a time,times and a half from the time the persecution of the Jewish Christians starts in Daniel 11:33 to the great tribulation in Daniel 12.1.

Daniel 12;6-7
One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”




Where do you get that these things take thousands of years to be fulfilled when the verse above says they are fulfilled in a time,times and a half which is 3.5 years?

 

[tailgator]

Jesus is correct, it is your understanding that is incorrect. The first tribulation to the Jews ends here….

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those daysshall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(6th seal signs)

Mark 13:24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,(6th seal signs)

Luke 21:24-25​

​

King James Version​

​

​

24 And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;(6th seal signs)

My understandinh of the scripture is fine .
But I don't understand how you believe 3.5 years is thousands of years.

Daniel 12 says these things are fulfilled in a time,times and a half which according to scripture is 3.5 years.


You act like Jewish Christians have been imprisoned and killed for thousands of years.The tribulation of the the Jewish Christians is 42 months.That is all the time the beast is given to persecute them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My understandinh of the scripture is fine .
But I don't understand how you believe 3.5 years is thousands of years.

Daniel 12 says these things are fulfilled in a time,times and a half which according to scripture is 3.5 years.


You act like Jewish Christians have been imprisoned and killed for thousands of years.The tribulation of the the Jewish Christians is 42 months.That is all the time the beast is given to persecute them.

So, within the most highly symbolic books in all of scripture, all the references to time periods should be interpreted literally? Do you see Daniel's 70 weeks as referring to 490 literal days, too?