The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Spiritual Israelite]

They cannot talk straight because to do so would expose what they have been taught.

Right. They never carefully exegete scripture because they know if they do, it will expose their false assumptions and wild theories that they make about it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I recognize the Bible is a joke to you. But it is not to Amillennialist.

How can the end of the seals witness the end of the world and then the same thing happens at the end of the seven trumpets? The same thing happens at the end of the seven vials. That is because we are looking at repeats. Until you see that you will never understand the book of Revelation. One needs to have eyes to see and the ears to hear to comprehend it.

Exactly.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This clearly says regarding "the wrath of the Lamb" Jesus Christ that "the great day of his wrath" has come at this point. The great day of his wrath is the day of His return and the day of the Lord that Jesus referenced in Luke 21:33-36, Paul referenced in 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 and that Peter referenced in 2 Peer 3:10-13. Just like those passages ,the description of the sixth seal describes complete destruction. And it indicates that it's at hand as of the sixth seal. But, pretribs try to say that the geat day of his wrath doesn't actually occur for another year or more afer that, which makes no sense and contradicts what Revelation 6:17 says which is that it has come at that point, not that it's still coming a year or more from then.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your statements are empty cups in the desert. Do the work. Try to explain why a statement is nonsensical.

La di da.

You also divert from the subject matter at hand.

Your criteria for evaluation is flawed.

Your claim that a parable wouldn't mention five brothers is ridiculous because a fictional story can have whatever details are necessary to tell the story.

There is no reason to think that a parable can not mention a fictional place.

There is no reason to think that a parable can not mention a fictional person.

There is no reason to think that a parable can not mention fictional places or people. If Jesus had named the poor man "Fred" it wouldn't have changed the meaning of the parable.

I see a person resisting the truth.

I don't see that as a problem. And you have no reason to doubt it.

All you can do is mockery and speak empty words.

Thanks.

What an utter waste of time it is to talk to you. You are completely lacking in spiritual discernment and no one should listen to you. I'm done reading your garbage.

 

[Keraz]

The great day of his wrath is the day of His return

This shows the confusion and error of the AMill theory.
There is a lot Prophesied to happen between Rev 6:12 to Rev 19:10.

I suggest that AMill believer keep their ideas to themselves, instead of promoting that unreal idea that we are in the Millennium now.

pretribs try to say that the geat day of his wrath doesn't actually occur for another year or more afer that, which makes no sense and contradicts what Revelation 6:17 says which is that it has come at that point, not that it's still coming a year or more from then.

I have no belief in a rapture, but I know from many Bible Prophesies, that the Lords terrible Day of wrath will be the event which commences the end times, leading up to the 6th and 7th Bowl; Armageddon and the glorious Return of King Jesus, to reign for the next thousand years.
Of at least 10 to 15 years.

You often say: 'it makes no sense'.
It is believing that the world is now under the beneficent rule of King Jesus, that violates the senses and departs from reality.

 

[Keraz]

What an utter waste of time it is to talk to you. You are completely lacking in spiritual discernment and no one should listen to you. I'm done reading your garbage.

Any dispassionate observer here can easily see who makes clear and Biblically accurate posts and who uses denigration and ridicule to push their theories. AMill and a rapture to heaven, are both false beliefs from the father of lies.

 

[honeycomb]

Exactly.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This clearly says regarding "the wrath of the Lamb" Jesus Christ that "the great day of his wrath" has come at this point. The great day of his wrath is the day of His return and the day of the Lord that Jesus referenced in Luke 21:33-36, Paul referenced in 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 and that Peter referenced in 2 Peer 3:10-13. Just like those passages ,the description of the sixth seal describes complete destruction. And it indicates that it's at hand as of the sixth seal. But, pretribs try to say that the geat day of his wrath doesn't actually occur for another year or more afer that, which makes no sense and contradicts what Revelation 6:17 says which is that it has come at that point, not that it's still coming a year or more from then.

Pretrib supporters think that the great tribulation of the Antichrist is the same as the wrath of God.

Rev. 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Revelation 16 describes the pouring out of the "wrath of God“ at the 7th trump which, as stated in verse 2, will be upon only those who are deceived, those who worship the AC (Satan).

 

[WPM]

Pretrib supporters think that the great tribulation of the Antichrist is the same as the wrath of God.


Revelation 16 describes the pouring out of the "wrath of God“ at the 7th trump which, as stated in verse 2, will be upon only those who are deceived, those who worship the AC (Satan).

Agreed! There is a big difference between the wrath of God against the wicked and the wrath of Satan against God’s people.

 

[WPM]

Any dispassionate observer here can easily see who makes clear and Biblically accurate posts and who uses denigration and ridicule to push their theories. AMill and a rapture to heaven, are both false beliefs from the father of lies.

Yea right! Defend a heretic!

 

[WPM]

This shows the confusion and error of the AMill theory.
There is a lot Prophesied to happen between Rev 6:12 to Rev 19:10.

I suggest that AMill believer keep their ideas to themselves, instead of promoting that unreal idea that we are in the Millennium now.

I have no belief in a rapture, but I know from many Bible Prophesies, that the Lords terrible Day of wrath will be the event which commences the end times, leading up to the 6th and 7th Bowl; Armageddon and the glorious Return of King Jesus, to reign for the next thousand years.
Of at least 10 to 15 years.

You often say: 'it makes no sense'.
It is believing that the world is now under the beneficent rule of King Jesus, that violates the senses and departs from reality.

What makes sense is interpreting Scripture with Scripture. That is something you do not do. You force your own opinions upon the book of Revelation and make your beliefs contradict numerous climatic Scripture.

2 Peter 3:9-15: “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you.”

The delay in the destruction of wicked men in our day is similarly presented in 2 Peter 3 as “the longsuffering of God.” This would suggest that our day is the final day of salvation. Plainly, “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.” But what is the reason for the longsuffering of God in our day? It is the exact same as it was in Noah’s day.

The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Scripture makes clear: now is the day of salvation. A sign of the end is the preaching of the Gospel message in the whole world.

Jesus said in Matthew 28:19-20: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world [age].”

The presence and help of Christ with His people are carefully connected to the spread of the Gospel in this age. That partnership is shown to last until the end of this age. He is here now with his people to use their puny efforts in the great commission for the extension of his kingdom. And He uses their voice and their feet for His glory.

The Bible constantly depicts our age as the last Gospel opportunity. Jesus makes clear (and unambiguously) in Matthew 24:14: "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

The New Testament age is always identified with the period preceding the appearing of the Lord not a period following. The end of the age witnesses the end of the great commission. The nations throughout “all the world” will have received their final opportunity – “then shall the end come.” It will assuredly be the end of the Gospel outreach and therefore salvation. It sees the close of the door of opportunity and of grace to the wicked forever. It is in fact the end of time.

 

[The Light]

Pretrib supporters think that the great tribulation of the Antichrist is the same as the wrath of God.

I don't and yet it appears that you do. You seem to have trouble recognizing that the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for the harvest and then the 1-year wrath of God begins

Revelation 16 describes the pouring out of the "wrath of God“ at the 7th trump which, as stated in verse 2, will be upon only those who are deceived, those who worship the AC (Satan).

All trumpets are the wrath of God, just as all the vial are the wrath of God.

The wrath of God is the 7th seal it it contains the trumpets and vials.

 

[WPM]

I don't and yet it appears that you do. You seem to have trouble recognizing that the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for the harvest and then the 1-year wrath of God begins


All trumpets are the wrath of God, just as all the vial are the wrath of God.

The wrath of God is the 7th seal it it contains the trumpets and vials.

The sixth seal is the end of the world. It sees the change from time to eternity. It totally demolishes the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

• The sun becomes black.
• The moon becomes as blood.
• The stars of heaven fall unto the earth.
• The heaven departs like a scroll.
• Every mountain and island are moved out of their places.

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it – men are either caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives.

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of His coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

How can anyone survive this? They do not!

 

[WPM]

There is no crown for having a erroneous postrib rapture doctrine..( actually pretending the AC does not kill all on the planet refusing the mark)
The baby Jesus, Lot and Noah were all gathered prejudgement.( how evil of Jesus to escape...God would have just protected him)
Is it shame on them for agreeing with heaven?

It is as if you despise the fact that worthiness is the basis of receiving crowns.
You have no idea what crowns are for.

2 Peter 3:3-15 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of His coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

We glean a lot of helpful detail here relating to what happens to the creature and creation when Jesus comes, and what immediately follows. If we are able to divorce ourselves from what we have been taught, we are looking at a very climactic picture.

• Unquestionably, the focus of this message is directed to the end-time-cynics who question God.
• These fools question God keeping His “promise.” What promise? It is “the promise of His coming.”
• The scorn and derision of these foolish last days scoffers and mockers are directed specifically towards the reality and occurrence of Christ’s future Advent in glory.
• The time period mentioned (a thousand years) relates to a long period of assumed delay before the coming of Christ, not some supposed time period after it.
• It is not in any way concentrated upon a supposed group of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years later. If this is supposed to be a collection of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years after the second coming, why would they be saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation”? Such a notion is a complete absurdity as Christ’s coming (or parousia) is long past.
• This text shows us that today is the only day of salvation. Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Romans 2:4 reaffirms that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming.
• The actual wrath described by the Holy Spirit comes suddenly and unexpectedly upon these foolish last days scoffers and mockers. There is no escape. They are the recipients of total destruction.
• We also see in this reading that “the day of the Lord will arrive (or heko) as a thief in the night; in the which (en heé)” or literally translated “in which” (the word “the” being absent from the original). The detail described arrives with Jesus.
• What happens to creation when Jesus arrives? 1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise. 2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, 3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. 4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. The Premillennialist claims to be a literalist, so there is no spiritualization that can explain this away. It is water-tight.
• The description of the destruction could not be more comprehensive. It is undoubtedly the end. It involves wholesale and unavoidable annihilation for the wicked. It embraces the full gamut of fallen creation.
• What is this replaced with? A future millennium filled with sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying? No. The Holy Spirit tells us that it the “new heavens and a new earth” that follows Christ’s return.
• The arrival of the “new heavens and a new earth” are here significantly connected to “his promise.”
• The Holy Spirit then assures the last days elect that their lot is not wrath or destruction. They experience the new heavens and new earth at His appearing.

 

[WPM]

I don't and yet it appears that you do. You seem to have trouble recognizing that the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for the harvest and then the 1-year wrath of God begins


All trumpets are the wrath of God, just as all the vial are the wrath of God.

The wrath of God is the 7th seal it it contains the trumpets and vials.

The 6th seal is the end. The 7 trumpets are a new recap.

 

[The Light]

The sixth seal is the end of the world.

The sixth seal is the end of the age.

It sees the change from time to eternity. It totally demolishes the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position.

The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus at the second harvest seen in Rev 14. Jesus remains in the clouds. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. The righteous are seen in heaven as the great multitude and the unrighteous are cast into the one year wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Exactly. Jesus comes. The unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God.

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

• The sun becomes black.
• The moon becomes as blood.
• The stars of heaven fall unto the earth.
• The heaven departs like a scroll.
• Every mountain and island are moved out of their places.

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Jesus returns at the 6th seal. The righteous go to heaven for the marriage supper. The unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it – men are either caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives.

Jesus comes for the dead in Christ. The barley harvest. 1 Thes 4
Jesus returns for the alive that remain. The wheat harvest. 1 Thes 4 Together, this is the grain harvest.
Jesus comes for the 144,000 first fruits of the fruit harvest Rev 14:1-4
Jesus comes for the fruit harvest. 1 Cor 15, Rev 14:14-19
Jesus returns with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. Revelation 19

You claim one coming of Jesus. Do you have to skip half of the Bible to draw this conclusion?

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of His coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

How can anyone survive this? They do not!

What do you do with this?

Zech 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

You need to learn the difference between the great tribulation and the wrath of God.
You need an understanding of the Feasts of God.
You need to use all of the Word not just a few verses to draw a proper conclusion.

 

[The Light]

The 6th seal is the end. The 7 trumpets are a new recap.

You are not understanding what you are reading.

The seven seals occur in order. There is no recap.

The sixth seal is the end of the age. The seventh seal is the Day of the Lord, the wrath of God.

 

[WPM]

The sixth seal is the end of the age.


The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus at the second harvest seen in Rev 14. Jesus remains in the clouds. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. The righteous are seen in heaven as the great multitude and the unrighteous are cast into the one year wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.




Exactly. Jesus comes. The unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God.



Jesus returns at the 6th seal. The righteous go to heaven for the marriage supper. The unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God.

Jesus comes for the dead in Christ. The barley harvest. 1 Thes 4
Jesus returns for the alive that remain. The wheat harvest. 1 Thes 4 Together, this is the grain harvest.
Jesus comes for the 144,000 first fruits of the fruit harvest Rev 14:1-4
Jesus comes for the fruit harvest. 1 Cor 15, Rev 14:14-19
Jesus returns with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. Revelation 19

You claim one coming of Jesus. Do you have to skip half of the Bible to draw this conclusion?


What do you do with this?

Zech 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

You need to learn the difference between the great tribulation and the wrath of God.
You need an understanding of the Feasts of God.
You need to use all of the Word not just a few verses to draw a proper conclusion.

Compare the color-coding.

Revelation 6 is just one of several depictions of the glorious second coming from various angles with similar detail. This appearance will be final and climactic. It will see the wholesale destruction of all the wicked. Compare the description in Revelation 6:15-17 to that of Revelation 19:18-21 and the objective Bible student must surely acknowledge that this is depicting the same event.

Revelation 6:15-17: “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

After describing the one-and-only future final coming of Christ at the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-17, in which the natural realm is changed, the writer talks about the sudden destruction that envelops the wicked. This passage finishes with a rhetorical question: “who shall be able to stand?” The answer is plain and obvious: no one shall stand! This is total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors! Those left behind become the unfortunate recipients of the destructive wrath of God. This is the end. The Holy Spirit describes those left behind in such a comprehensive way that it is clear none escape.

The same comprehensive climactic destructive detail outlined in Revelation 6:7-9 and the same foolish rebellious characters are found in Revelation 19:18-21 as both describe the one final future coming of Christ.

Revelation 19:18-21: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant [Gr. loipoy or remaining ones or those left behind] were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

When man fell then all creation experienced the consequences and fell with him. When man is glorified, all of creation will be glorified with him. Creation is delivered from the curse by the fiery conflagration that regenerates this current earth and renews it to the state it was before the Fall – free from, sin, wickedness, the wicked, death and wars (the awful plagues that continue to infest the Premil millennium). Amil and Postmil are the only views that fits here. Every vestige of the Fall is removed when Christ returns never to arise again. A new earth will come-forth that is totally renewed and eternally free of corruption.

 

[WPM]

The seven seals occur in order. There is no recap.

The sixth seal is the end of the age. The seventh seal is the Day of the Lord, the wrath of God.

I never said different. I said the 7 vials and 7 trumpets are parallel recaps to the 7 seals. They all conclude at the one and only future coming of Christ.

 

[WPM]

You need to learn the difference between the great tribulation and the wrath of God.

No Pretribbers need "to learn the difference between the great tribulation and the wrath of God." There is a big difference between the wrath of God against the wicked and the wrath of Satan against God’s people.

 

[The Light]

No Pretribbers need "to learn the difference between the great tribulation and the wrath of God." There is a big difference between the wrath of God against the wicked and the wrath of Satan against God’s people.

You can't have it both ways. The great tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal and then the wrath of God begins. They are not the same and they do not happen in the same timeframe.........hence they are not a recap.

 

[The Light]

Compare the color-coding.

Revelation 6 is just one of several depictions of the glorious second coming from various angles with similar detail. This appearance will be final and climactic. It will see the wholesale destruction of all the wicked. Compare the description in Revelation 6:15-17 to that of Revelation 19:18-21 and the objective Bible student must surely acknowledge that this is depicting the same event.

Revelation 6:15-17: “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

After describing the one-and-only future final coming of Christ at the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-17, in which the natural realm is changed, the writer talks about the sudden destruction that envelops the wicked. This passage finishes with a rhetorical question: “who shall be able to stand?” The answer is plain and obvious: no one shall stand! This is total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors! Those left behind become the unfortunate recipients of the destructive wrath of God. This is the end. The Holy Spirit describes those left behind in such a comprehensive way that it is clear none escape.

The same comprehensive climactic destructive detail outlined in Revelation 6:7-9 and the same foolish rebellious characters are found in Revelation 19:18-21 as both describe the one final future coming of Christ.

Revelation 19:18-21: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant [Gr. loipoy or remaining ones or those left behind] were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

When man fell then all creation experienced the consequences and fell with him. When man is glorified, all of creation will be glorified with him. Creation is delivered from the curse by the fiery conflagration that regenerates this current earth and renews it to the state it was before the Fall – free from, sin, wickedness, the wicked, death and wars (the awful plagues that continue to infest the Premil millennium). Amil and Postmil are the only views that fits here. Every vestige of the Fall is removed when Christ returns never to arise again. A new earth will come-forth that is totally renewed and eternally free of corruption.

The 6th seal occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days. It is the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth.
The 7th seal is the day of the Lord and the coming of Jesus with the armies of Heaven is for Armageddon. Two completely separate comings of the Lord.