Satan Demons Angels and Spiritual Warfare

[Christian Soldier]

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Correct not a fallen angel

Again the human nature is responsible and not a fallen angel

Quote please - God was the one who afflicted Job

. 42:11 So they came to him, all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and they dined with him in his house. They comforted him and consoled him for all the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring
Job 42:10–11.

We have established you don't read the Word of God you just force your lies upon it!

It shows you also don't understand the account of Job and the lessons therein!


It's ridiculous how poor your understand of God's Word is Christian

F2F

There's no point in quoting every scripture, which you requested. I would quote them if you actually believed that the Bible is Gods Word, but I know that every time I quote a scripture you go and twist it beyond recognition and you make it say something completely different.

Only God chosen (elect) understand what He is saying, His Word is foolishness to everyone else. "My Sheep hear my voice"

You forgot that it was Satan who caused man's fall, so yes man is responsible for the evil he commits but lets not forget why he does only evil continuously. Don't forget man is born into bondage to Satan, so man does serve Satan, to do His will. So Satan is equally responsible, for killing and persecution Christians. I'm not going to allow you to get Him off the hook, I know you have sympathy for the Devil, but I have none.

You are dead wrong about God afflicting Job, this shows your ignorance of Gods Word. God never had anything to do with Job, He never spoke to him nor did He do anything to hurt him in any way.

If you go back and read Job, you would find that Satan was the one who afflicted Job and not God. You just love to accuse God of evil, don't you.
You always make Him ot to be a ruthless monster.

 

[face2face]

There's no point in quoting every scripture,

You don't have them

which you requested. I would quote them if you actually believed that the Bible is Gods Word, but I know that every time I quote a scripture you go and twist it beyond recognition and you make it say something completely different.

So transparent is your position

Only God chosen (elect) understand what He is saying, His Word is foolishness to everyone else. "My Sheep hear my voice"

Self deception again

You forgot that it was Satan who caused man's fall,

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so yes man is responsible for the evil he commits but lets not forget why he does only evil continuously. Don't forget man is born into bondage to Satan,

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so man does serve Satan, to do His will. So Satan is equally responsible, for killing and persecution Christians.

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I'm not going to allow you to get Him off the hook, I know you have sympathy for the Devil, but I have none.

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You are dead wrong about God afflicting Job, this shows your ignorance of Gods Word.

You can't read?

God never had anything to do with Job, He never spoke to him nor did He do anything to hurt him in any way.

Because you do not understand the nature of the Adversary of the fact that God brought the Evil upon Job shows how dark your understanding is.

Here it is again in case you want to ignore it again

. 42:11 So they came to him, all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and they dined with him in his house. They comforted him and consoled him for all the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring Job 42:10–11.

The writer knows something you don't!

If you go back and read Job, you would find that Satan was the one who afflicted Job and not God. You just love to accuse God of evil, don't you. You always make Him to to be a ruthless monster.

If you want to look at Job critically to gain a deeper understanding happy to show you the way though you seem to resist at every corner lol.

What's important to note is the testing of Job was God's work alone and none other.

F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

You don't have them

So transparent is your position

Self deception again

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You can't read?

Because you do not understand the nature of the Adversary of the fact that God brought the Evil upon Job shows how dark your understanding is.

Here it is again in case you want to ignore it again

. 42:11 So they came to him, all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and they dined with him in his house. They comforted him and consoled him for all the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring Job 42:10–11.

The writer knows something you don't!



If you want to look at Job critically to gain a deeper understanding happy to show you the way though you seem to resist at every corner lol.

What's important to note is the testing of Job was God's work alone and none other.

F2F

No self deception on my part, I know I'm saved. I already poses eternal life, I will never experience the second death. I know this because God made that promise to me, so I have no doubt whatsoever.
You always resort to making false accusations and false assumptions.

You obviously missed the elephant in Job's dining room. Hs brothers and sisters and those who knew him were just as deluded as you are. Like you they thought that God was punishing Job for his secret sin, but little did they and you know that God didn't punish Job at all. Satan is the One who got permission for God to afflict him.

You fail to comprehend the difference between God allowing Satan to afflict him and God actually afflicting him, Himself. God did not lay a finger on Job, it was Satan alone who hurt Job and He would have killed Job if God allowed Him to.

Back in Jobs day, the people didn't know that God allows the Devil to buffet His children. They didn't know that it causes them to become better versions of themselves. They understood Gods chastisement as punishment for secret sin, and you still believe that nonsense even though you have a bible and they didn't.

A Roman Catholic Priest friend, told me that the worst thing the Vatican ever did, was to release the bible to the public. He said the result was mass confusion and 45,000 Christian sects and cults sprung up and gave the Church a dirty name which still stands today. I couldn't disagree with him because what he said was true, the evidence is all around us.

The Vatican used to burn heretics at the stake, now the heretics are celebrated and held in the highest esteem. And they have millions of followers and supporters.

Yes, Job rebuked his wife for going along with the crowd. I think God allowed Satan to kill her because God had a better wife waiting for him. So I wouldn't take what Jobs unfaithful friends said about God as thew truth about God. Jobs wife said curse God and die, and you love that kind of talk.

 

[Fred J]

Revelation 12 is speaking about a future time,

In my spirit i believe after Christ's death and resurrection, when He defeated satan (Gen. 3:15), sin and death (1Cor. 15:55-57). Satan and his angels were cast down to earth and not in chains and bottomless pit. If he was in chains, how verse 7 read, he fought and his angels fought Michael and his angels?

when God will release the Devil from the chains he has been in for 2000 years now.

He will be bound for 1,000 years and not 2,000, where will take place after the great abomination. When the beast anti-Christ takes his place as god in GOD's Temple in Jerusalem. As we know the anti-Christ is possessed by the devil himself.

The sate of the world has been very good for the past 2000 years, since the enemy has been restrained. The Lord has been building His Church on the earth with no opposition from Satan and His Demons. They can do nothing to stop Gods chosen people from being saved.

i disagree, for the world have been deceived by unseen satan and his angels until now. Even deceived with many false doctrine and phenomenon until today. And from Christ, the church too underwent persecution by violent men beguiled by satan and his angels.

With no opposition from satan and his angels ??

Ephesians 6:
11. Put on the whole armor of GOD, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

James 3:
1. My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

 

[Jericho]

The lament in Ezek 28 has absolutely nothing to do with the symbol of Lucifer in Isaiah 14

It's pretty clear that Ezekiel 28:11–19 is talking about Lucifier. It specifically says "you were the annointed Cherub" and "you were in Eden, the garden of God." The King of Tyre was never in Eden, nor was he ever a Cherub.

If Satan is a rebel angel, why is he called "the man"? in verse 16?

I'm glad you asked. The Hebrew word used here for "man" is not "'āḏām", which is the word used to refer to man or mankind, but "'îš".
The Hebrew word "'îš" the same word for the three men (who clearly were angels) that met with Abraham in Gen 18:2 and Gen 19:1. So, the fact that our English Bibles use the word "man" here is missleading.

What land has Satan possessed, the destruction of which merits him a dishonorable burial?

This could be the kingdoms under his authority, which is referenced in Luke 4. There is another speculative possibility. Some people believe that Satan, before he fell, ruled over earth prior to Adam. However, that is a whole other discussion.

Also, Is your Satan to be covered by worms in the grave?

Isaiah 66:24 (NIV): "And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die; the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Mark 9:48 (NIV): "where 'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.'"

The scriptures suggest there are worms in hell, and possibly the lake of fire, too.

Or is he not rather to be cast into the lake of fire? (Rev. 20:10).

Eventually, he will be cast into the lake of fire, but he will be bound for a thousand years first (Rev 20:2).

 

[Christian Soldier]

In my spirit i believe after Christ's death and resurrection, when He defeated satan (Gen. 3:15), sin and death (1Cor. 15:55-57). Satan and his angels were cast down to earth and not in chains and bottomless pit. If he was in chains, how verse 7 read, he fought and his angels fought Michael and his angels?

He will be bound for 1,000 years and not 2,000, where will take place after the great abomination. When the beast anti-Christ takes his place as god in GOD's Temple in Jerusalem. As we know the anti-Christ is possessed by the devil himself.

i disagree, for the world have been deceived by unseen satan and his angels until now. Even deceived with many false doctrine and phenomenon until today. And from Christ, the church too underwent persecution by violent men beguiled by satan and his angels.

With no opposition from satan and his angels ??

Ephesians 6:
11. Put on the whole armor of GOD, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

James 3:
1. My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Satan and those Angels who rebelled against God, wee all cast down to the earth before Adam sinned. Then when the second Adam came (Christ) He defeated Satan and His Demons and bound them so they could no longer deceive the nations.
The 1000 years mentioned in the book of revelation, doesn't refer to a literal 1000 years. The book of revelation uses a lot of symbolic language so we need to consider it in that context. Most respected Bible Scholars and Theologians agree the 1000 years refers to a long time and not a specific period in that context.

Satan and His Demons will be released for a short time, when they will torment the men who don't have the seal of God on their foreheads. The seal is symbolic, just as the mark of the Beast is. The Antichrist and the Beast System will be defeated in the final battle on planet earth, then they will be cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever.

The opposition you refer to is a spiritual opposition and Ephesians 6 also refers to a spiritual battle. These are not wars fought with spears or guns, Jesus is concerned with your spiritual battle and not our desire to conquer more land for our earthly empire. People focus on the temporal earthly things, but Jesus didn't come to conquer the world for America. He came to set His people free from bondage to sin and Satan. He accomplished that mission 2000 years ago.

There's absolutely nothing the Devil can do to stop Gods elect from being saved. All the trouble in the world is bought about by sinful men, they don't need any help from he Devil. Nobody will get away with any sin by saying "the Devil made me do it". Adam did the exact same thing as the Devil, He rebelled against God and became a fallen creature separated from God.

Putting on the whole armor of God, equips us to battle against our three enemies. Our first enemy is ourself, second is the world and third is Satan. The war we fight doesn't end until we die, then we will receive our glorified perfect immortal sinless bodies.

 

[face2face]

No self deception on my part, I know I'm saved.

That's nice for you Christian

I already poses eternal life, I will never experience the second death.

Ha this saying alone shows you know nothing of what that second death means - why is it that everything you say is contrary to the teaching of Scripture? This should concern you more than it does.

I know this because God made that promise to me, so I have no doubt whatsoever.
You always resort to making false accusations and false assumptions.

The so called assumptions I make are supported by the Word whereas yours only have support by the teachings of men (your early church fathers) - You know no other way Christian - you need to be taught all over!

You obviously missed the elephant in Job's dining room. Hs brothers and sisters and those who knew him were just as deluded as you are. Like you they thought that God was punishing Job for his secret sin, but little did they and you know that God didn't punish Job at all. Satan is the One who got permission for God to afflict him.

Where did I say God was punishing him? You make unfounded leaps of logic without any thought of the Word of God at all.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

You see C. you think God needs to punish someone to discipline them! What does it say about God's Son?

Although he (Jesus) was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. Hebrews 5:8

You have a lot to learn about Job and Jesus it appears

You fail to comprehend the difference between God allowing Satan to afflict him and God actually afflicting him, Himself. God did not lay a finger on Job, it was Satan alone who hurt Job and He would have killed Job if God allowed Him to.

Can you show me from the book of Job the Adversary after chapter 4 of Job?

Back in Jobs day, the people didn't know that God allows the Devil to buffet His children. They didn't know that it causes them to become better versions of themselves. They understood Gods chastisement as punishment for secret sin, and you still believe that nonsense even though you have a bible and they didn't.

Show me the adversary saytoward the end of the book?

A Roman Catholic Priest friend, told me that the worst thing the Vatican ever did, was to release the bible to the public. He said the result was mass confusion and 45,000 Christian sects and cults sprung up and gave the Church a dirty name which still stands today. I couldn't disagree with him because what he said was true, the evidence is all around us.

You have so many crazy thoughts running around in your brain that nothing you say makes sense

Yes, Job rebuked his wife for going along with the crowd. I think God allowed Satan to kill her because God had a better wife waiting for him. So I wouldn't take what Jobs unfaithful friends said about God as thew truth about God. Jobs wife said curse God and die, and you love that kind of talk.

I highlight your problem in red

You see, your instruction has led you to believe what you think is truth, all the notions of spirits and fallen angels none of which you can prove which is why when asked to support your claims with Scripture you fail to do so.

F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

That's nice for you Christian

Ha this saying alone shows you know nothing of what that second death means - why is it that everything you say is contrary to the teaching of Scripture? This should concern you more than it does.

The so called assumptions I make are supported by the Word whereas yours only have support by the teachings of men (your early church fathers) - You know no other way Christian - you need to be taught all over!

Where did I say God was punishing him? You make unfounded leaps of logic without any thought of the Word of God at all.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

You see C. you think God needs to punish someone to discipline them! What does it say about God's Son?

Although he (Jesus) was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. Hebrews 5:8

You have a lot to learn about Job and Jesus it appears


Can you show me from the book of Job the Adversary after chapter 4 of Job?

Show me the adversary saytoward the end of the book?

You have so many crazy thoughts running around in your brain that nothing you say makes sense

I highlight your problem in red

You see, your instruction has led you to believe what you think is truth, all the notions of spirits and fallen angels none of which you can prove which is why when asked to support your claims with Scripture you fail to do so.

F2F

There's nothing mystical or complicated about the second death. The problem is with your false theology.

The fact is man died once already, when Adam sinned. But God saved a remnant for Himself, so we won't die the second death, as those who God leaves in their sin do. It can't be more simple but your twisted theology repels the truth and you only embrace the Unbiblical Doctrine of Demons.

Your assumptions and accusations are only supported by your private opinion. The Word of God exposes all of your lies and false assumptions and false interpretations.

You always say things and then deny saying them when I call you out on them. There's no point in debating our different interpretations of the book of Job. You're fixed in your views and your not willing to learn or consider the possibility that you are deceived. Your theology is held together by sticky tape and it quickly comes undone when it is put to the test.

 

[face2face]

There's nothing mystical or complicated about the second death. The problem is with your false theology.

The fact is man died once already, when Adam sinned. But God saved a remnant for Himself, so we won't die the second death, as those who God leaves in their sin do. It can't be more simple but your twisted theology repels the truth and you only embrace the Unbiblical Doctrine of Demons.

Your assumptions and accusations are only supported by your private opinion. The Word of God exposes all of your lies and false assumptions and false interpretations.

You always say things and then deny saying them when I call you out on them. There's no point in debating our different interpretations of the book of Job. You're fixed in your views and your not willing to learn or consider the possibility that you are deceived. Your theology is held together by sticky tape and it quickly comes undone when it is put to the test.

You have proven from your own words your inability to understand spiritual things. You are most comfortable with the works of the early church fathers who mused upon the philosophers of their times. Your beliefs are more pagan than Christian sadly.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Christian Soldier

I want to prove to you your understanding is false through a series of questions concerning your supernatural evil being.

Can you show me in all the Psalms where this being is spoken about in the struggles of David or any other writer?

I'll wait for your Scriptural references

F2F

 

[ReChoired]

Show me the adversary saytoward the end of the book?

Hi face2face.

I have not entirely read through this thread, but skimmed over a bit and looked at a few things here and there.

Would you be able to briefly clarify something for me?

Are you asking where the mention of satan is in the book of Job after chapter 4?

 

[face2face]

Hi face2face.

I have not entirely read through this thread, but skimmed over a bit and looked at a few things here and there.

Would you be able to briefly clarify something for me?

Are you asking where the mention of satan is in the book of Job after chapter 4?

Hi ReChoired

Christians like @Christian Soldier are guilty of making rash uniformed comments about the Word of God about things they know nothing about, hence the OP. But yes, the adversary (whoever it was) is not mentioned after chapter 3 of Job and is not central to its theme.

The question is this - who could the adversary be?

Was he a mortal member of the community, who harbored envious thoughts of Job’s prosperity and happiness, not unlike similar situations today?

Whoever he was, he was outwardly religious, but he came to the general assembly with his own form of worship, exactly like Cain, whose envy of Abel led to hatred and murder. He was a personal adversary to Job, who despised and rejected his humility and craven submission to God, and was bent on exposing His presumed hypocrisy, and bringing him (Job) to ruin. God Himself was willing to test his servant loyalty and honour in the wake of these opposing thoughts.

Because the OT is silent on an evil angelic being who stands in opposition of God's soveriegnty, as this adversary is totally powerless, believers like Christian and others don't have any text to support their believes, so they run off to the end of the Book to prove their creatures existences having twisted and misrepresent the Word there.

If you want to discuss my findings in Job, happpy to do so anytime

F2F

 

[ReChoired]

Hi ReChoired

Christians like @Christian Soldier are guilty of making rash uniformed comments about the Word of God about things they know nothing about, hence the OP. But yes, the adversary (whoever it was) is not mentioned after chapter 3 of Job and is not central to its theme.

The question is this - who could the adversary be?

Was he a mortal member of the community, who harbored envious thoughts of Job’s prosperity and happiness, not unlike similar situations today?

Whoever he was, he was outwardly religious, but he came to the general assembly with his own form of worship, exactly like Cain, whose envy of Abel led to hatred and murder. He was a personal adversary to Job, who despised and rejected his humility and craven submission to God, and was bent on exposing His presumed hypocrisy, and bringing him (Job) to ruin. God Himself was willing to test his servant loyalty and honour in the wake of these opposing thoughts.

Because the OT is silent on an evil angelic being who stands in opposition of God's soveriegnty, as this adversary is totally powerless, believers like Christian and others don't have any text to support their believes, so they run off to the end of the Book to prove their creatures existences having twisted and misrepresent the Word there.

If you want to discuss my findings in Job, happpy to do so anytime

F2F

Ok, I have heard something like this before in the Island where I was before.

Just for clarification, please, are you saying that in the OT (at least) there is no singular being that is identified as 'satan', a leader of a rebellion originating in the 3rd Heaven?

 

[face2face]

Ok, I have heard something like this before in the Island where I was before.

Just for clarification, please, are you saying that in the OT (at least) there is no singular being that is identified as 'satan', a leader of a rebellion originating in the 3rd Heaven?

Your understand of what 3rd heaven is, is wrong. It would take me some time and a seperate thread to show you its meaning.

Correct, its almost conclusive that Scholars today openly state the mythological being Christians call Satan is not presented at all in the OT.

Why would this be a problem for NT fallen angel believers?

F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

You have proven from your own words your inability to understand spiritual things. You are most comfortable with the works of the early church fathers who mused upon the philosophers of their times. Your beliefs are more pagan than Christian sadly.

F2F

Thanks for that flogging, now allow me to defend my respect for the early Church Fathers who were the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not sure what your problem is with Jesus and His Church but I rebuke you for falsely accusing the Apostles musing upon the philosophies of their times.

May I remind you that that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church which Christ established. You can have your new age Church with it's demonic doctrine, I'll stick with the original and the best.

 

[ReChoired]

Your understand of what 3rd heaven is, is wrong. It would take me some time and a seperate thread to show you its meaning.

Correct, its almost conclusive that Scholars today openly state the mythological being Christians call Satan is not presented at all in the OT.

Why would this be a problem for NT fallen angel believers?

F2F

Yeah, that's ok, I do not need the meaning (3rd Heaven) as you might share it. Thank you for the offer though.

I have heard this teaching before, but it seems very strange to me in regards 'satan' not being a singular being that is adversarial to God.

So clarifying question again.

You are saying that the NT texts do teach such a (singular) being, apart from the OT texts? if so where did he (the being) come from, and where does the NT get such an ideology from if not OT?

 

[Christian Soldier]

@Christian Soldier

I want to prove to you your understanding is false through a series of questions concerning your supernatural evil being.

Can you show me in all the Psalms where this being is spoken about in the struggles of David or any other writer?

I'll wait for your Scriptural references

F2F

My supernatural evil being is spoken of right throughout the entire bible from Genesis to Revelation. He is known by many names and He has many titles, that's where your confusion comes from. You take each of the names and titles as a separate individual.

If you followed the basic rule of scripture interpretation, you would know that everything spoken of is supported by the rest of scripture. So scripture interprets scripture, the scriptures were never given to fallen man, so he can use his fallen mind to interpret them. The scriptures force themselves on you and you hate them because we all hate the truth before we are converted.

No unconverted man will ever love a singe Word of God, we are born hating God and hating His Word. So we will never ever ever accept anything He said, unless He converts us from death to life. You have never accepted a single scripture as it was given. You always twist them and make them say something completely different.

You can't enter into a theological debate, because you can't handle the truth. You set your own terms and then stay within the parameters you set. This is called subjective truth and circular reasoning. Satan is the author of this scam.

 

[face2face]

Yeah, that's ok, I do not need the meaning (3rd Heaven) as you might share it. Thank you for the offer though.

You can see how the error grows to the point the mind has conjured up many notions about Heaven itself and the lies are perpetuated until the original intent and meaning of the Word is no more.

I have heard this teaching before, but it seems very strange to me in regards 'satan' not being a singular being that is adversarial to God.

It's only relatively early in Chrisitan history that such a being has been invented. Scholars are now using their critical thinking and apply this to OT text, and they are finding the being isn’t there.

So clarifying question again.

You are saying that the NT texts do teach such a (singular) being, apart from the OT texts? if so where did he (the being) come from, and where does the NT get such an ideology from if not OT?

Correct, its not in the OT, at all, however the Greek words for Adversary and Fasle Accuser are used more frequently in the NT so making sense of those passages requires a more careful reading of the Word. It's also important to understand how the translators interpreted these words in the NT, which of course is governed by the context.

Example:

1 Timothy 3:11

3:11 Likewise also their wives must be dignified, not slanderous (devils), temperate, faithful in every respect. 1 Ti 3:11.



Why not use the word Devils?

See Titus 2:3 also

What Christians have done is assign notions to a word which simply means slandered, false accuser etc - always a negative word with negative context unlike adversary (satan) which can be used in a good sense.

Enjoy
F2F

 

[face2face]

My supernatural evil being is spoken of right throughout the entire bible from Genesis to Revelation. He is known by many names and He has many titles, that's where your confusion comes from. You take each of the names and titles as a separate individual.

If you followed the basic rule of scripture interpretation, you would know that everything spoken of is supported by the rest of scripture. So scripture interprets scripture, the scriptures were never given to fallen man, so he can use his fallen mind to interpret them. The scriptures force themselves on you and you hate them because we all hate the truth before we are converted.

No unconverted man will ever love a singe Word of God, we are born hating God and hating His Word. So we will never ever ever accept anything He said, unless He converts us from death to life. You have never accepted a single scripture as it was given. You always twist them and make them say something completely different.

You can't enter into a theological debate, because you can't handle the truth. You set your own terms and then stay within the parameters you set. This is called subjective truth and circular reasoning. Satan is the author of this scam.

Not a single inspired text.

 

[ReChoired]

It's only relatively early in Chrisitan history that such a being has been invented.

So, you believe that the NT writers (all of them who speak on the subject of a singular being) invented this adversary? You do not actually believe (at present) that 'the' (definite article) devil/satan/lucifer (heylel) exists? Where did they (NT writers) get the idea from?

For instance:

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.