Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Your author is misguided. Man is an enslaved immoral agent, not a free moral agent.
Born again - Before, or After, the Call?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Man chooses that which appeals to him or her.
Jesus said....."if you being EVIL can give GOOD Gifts to your Children"..
So, even an EVIL can do a GOOD....... unless Jesus is Lying, and Calvinist's and Tulip-Heads seem to think He must be One of those.
So, when we speak about "spiritual" or "religion" or "divine".. then that is exactly what a Satanist or a Pagan, is following.
Witches, Warlocks, and similar............ who practice paganism, are very spiritual, and are pursuing this, as their spirituality.., as their FAITH.
What is that? Its misplaced Faith.. that God can't accept.
So, its not a question of.... "will someone pursue" the Divine.......and its not about someone being able to pursue it.. by Faith.
That is not the problem, so Calvinism has not correctly defined the issue... as John the Devil Calvin, didnt understand that the issue isn't a FAITH issue, or a "depravity issue"..... nor is it a lack of the ability to pursue spirituality... by FAITH.
He was a good writer of theology, that is some of the best that The Devil has ever produced, and once it evolves into Hyper-Calvinsim,....then its Sold Gold Satanism.
Reader,
The issue is, that the person who has faith, (as all have faith..).. if they decided to choose to become spiritual, ... they can't find the Truth to pursue that leads to CORRECT RIGHTEOUSNESS Spirituality, because : """the god of this world has blinded their minds, as otherwise the Light of the Gospel of Jesus The Christ would Shine into them".
So, UNBELIEVERS, dont have a faith issue, they have a blinded mind issue... and what Preaching the Gospel does, *The Preaching of THE CROSS">.... is.. it allows the Holy Spirit to illuminate the Truth for them to choose., and before this they could not see the Truth, to believe in it.
Reader the Literal TRUTH< regarding Who Jesus is and Why Jesus died on THE Cross, is a REVELATION that is given by the Holy Spirit, only.
The Holy Spirit causes an unbeliever, to SEE "Jesus" Truth... = who is Jesus, and they see this as.. ."im a sinner, i need to be saved, and Jesus is the only SAVIOR". Which leads them to take their FAITH and give it to GOD = as Faith IN Christ.
God takes that every time, = instantly and FOREVER.
See that Gospel?
Unbelievers can't SEE IT, unless the Holy Spirit reveals it... and once He does, then Paul teaches that they have "come to the knowledge OF.... THE... Truth"....who is Jesus... John 14:6.
And now that they have SEEN THE TRUTH....., will they take THEIR Faith, that all have.....and place it in Christ or NOT... ??
And if NOT< then they die a willing Christ Rejector...which is the "unpardonable sin".... and if they DO place THEIR Faith in Jesus, then..
= THEIR.... "faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness"..
Was the Word who became the "son of man", a human being, an enslaved immoral agent like the rest of us?
LOL
That's a good play on words, but...
In general, we make choices for right or wrong every day.
And I agree, not to say that someone may instead choose the wrong, all day, ever day, until...
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"Born again" is a mistranslation of genethe anothen" because everywhere else it means "born from above" which fits the themes and context of John's Gospel much better than anything else.
Erasmus and Tyndale got it wrong....they just didn't know any better. But translators continue this as a means to honor those two guys.
So....
Let's try again with some other term.
Erasmus and Tyndale got it wrong....they just didn't know any better. But translators continue this as a means to honor those two guys.
So....
Let's try again with some other term.
Maybe the same term that Peter used?
1Pe 1:23 since you have been born again (ἀναγεννάω [anagennaō]), not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
From Strong's
G313
ἀναγεννάω
anagennaō
an-ag-en-nah'-o
From G303 and G1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again): - beget, (bear) X again
Nope....
Jesus did Not use the same words Peter used.
Just saying....
The classification of "Born from Above" was one used to classify certain heroes of Israel's history. (Caste based social structure....go figure eh?)
These were people who were prophesied about before they were even born....the list includes such heroes as Isaac, Jacob, Sampson, and Samuel to name a few.
These people were to have lives that helped the nation of Israel by their service to God.
It was a huge honor....one that Nicodemus knew well but did not see himself as one of those elite group. So when Jesus said he was one of these people it hit Nicodemus rather hard.
anothen and anagennao are two distictly different Greek words with two completely separate meanings.
I tend to see anagennao more as "anew" rather than "again"....but completely separate definitions from what Jesus said in John's Gospel.
It's like saying that "cheeseburger" and "bread" are synonyms.
I'm not a fan of Strongs when it comes to this deep of linguistics....Christian Political correctness is their guide....not accuracy.
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Do you even know what it means to be born again or born from above? What is the result of that? Why is it needed? What is the significance of being "born", whether again or from above?
And finally, given that you see such a difference between the words that Jesus used versus the word that Peter used, do you think Peter was confused and meant something different from what Jesus meant?
Yes....
What Peter was discussing and Jesus was discussing are two completely unrelated concepts.
As far as "born anew" I am very familiar with the concept that Peter was discussing....
However, it's become clear to me that most Americans do not understand what Jesus was discussing because they are trapped into modern American ideals and mindset. For whatever reason they simply do not understand the Caste based lifestyle and choose to refuse to understand it.
It's an odd quirk. But then most cultures have some sort of odd quirk that defines them.
And finally as far as the initial cause of these events?
I, nor anyone else, has been given this knowledge with definitive evidence to support their claim. God's providence or man's willful choice is not exactly supportive of furthering the Gospel message or causing people to get out of their echo chamber and seek truth.
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Seriously, what is the difference, specifically, between being born again and being born from above? By what means is anyone born again or the alternative, according to you, born from above. Which, if either, have you experienced?
I have already explained the difference....two completely different subject matters between what Peter discusses as born anew and what Jesus labeled Nicodemus as Born from Above.
If you can't engage in honest discussion by the minimum simple acknowledgement that i have explained myself I guess we are through.
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So you claim that I am not a Christian because I have more advanced hermeneutic skills than you do? That somehow because I know more anthropology, koine Greek, and understand what these things actually mean I cannot be a Christian? There never has been a road constructed to allow traffic between these two thoughts.
You are not the sole arbiter of all scripture knowledge. (This might be a new concept for you) I really suggest you understand that "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble" before its too late.
And where you may believe what you will....but I do indeed know God well....and He knows me even better. That's why I have devoted decades of my life to studying the bottomless truths of scriptures. The Bible is a modern day miracle there for all to witness. And there is too much there for anyone to know all there is to know.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So I guess you do not believe God when He wrote that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God
Wel we don't seem to think that, that is the anti-biblical Armeniasts like yourself who spread these kind of lies about biblical truth that the five points are.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Doing right or wrong when one is lost is irrelavent. As Paul wrote, anything done outside of faith in god is sin. and the lost do all things apart from god. so while the acts may be deemed "good or bad" on human terms, from Divine perspective they count for nothing.
Well I do not believe people consistently choose what is deem evil all day everyday. NOt even Hitler did that! and He was about the worst of the modern era.
I haven't claimed that you are not a Christian. I would not ordinarily do such a thing.
I have no reason to believe that at all.
And neither are you.
Given your assertions of superiority, I am not sure you should be trying to take anyone to task for pride; this last reply doesn't display much humility. But I suppose that is all relative.
So your view is that we inherit a sin nature from our father? I don't think you can get that from Scripture or from biology. Actually, I don't think you can even find a reference to a sin nature in Scripture.
Are you sure His divinity came from God the Father and not God the Holy Spirit? Actually, I think His divinity came from His being the "Word", the second being of the Trinity.
There's a topic. At what point, if at all did Jesus become deity? (note: forum discussion of the tr1n1t1 is not allowed)
Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.
I want to discuss the Logos as what it means before the Logos became flesh. (and dwelt among us) In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. (John 1:1) This tells three things about the Logos. 1) The Logos was from the beginning. 2) The Logos was with...
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Do you mean the human being named Jesus; or do you mean the Word who became, though incarnation, the human being named Jesus?There's a topic. At what point, if at all did Jesus become deity? (note: forum discussion of the tr1n1t1 is not allowed)
Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.
I want to discuss the Logos as what it means before the Logos became flesh. (and dwelt among us) In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. (John 1:1) This tells three things about the Logos. 1) The Logos was from the beginning. 2) The Logos was with...
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