the woman and the flood

[tailgator]

I don't see the Beirut bombing and the US/Iraq wars as ancient history, but I do see Dan 11 as ancient history, as do many scholars. Not being argumentative about it--I just agree with the scholars that I have read in their commentaries.

The "end" does not always refer to the end of the present age. Sometimes it refers to the end of a reign or to the end of a particular stage in history--it depends on the context. Many futurists interpret "the time of the end" to refer to the end of the age. I just don't share their view. Again, many scholars say otherwise in their commentaries. It is, I believe, an arguable point.

This may refer to the end of this particular period of trouble.

Daniel 12:6-7
And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


A time,times and a half is 3.5 years in the word of God.42 months.
That is how long it is from.the time the king of the north gives israel.his armed forces in Daniel 11:31 to the resurrection in Daniel 12:2.

The same amount of time in revelation 13 concerning the persecution of the saints by the beast.42 months from.the time the second beast arrives to aid the first beast to the time of the end.


Daniel 11:33-35 is talking about the same persecution as revelation 13 and Daniel 7.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No,it won't

Herod ,king of Judea,was a Jew,
The one who will go after the woman will be king of Judea,a Jew.

No, it will not be,

He is the prince of the people who destroyed the temple in 70 AD. The final gentile ruler of the age of the gentiles.

It is not a Judean king.

Romes christians are not going to invade Israel .Not only do the christians in Rome have no thirst for blood,they don't care for war at all.

I never said roman christians would do anything, STOP with your nonsense, or I will put you on ignore.

The roman gentile KING who comes from the sea (gentiles) who will set himself up as God and blaspheme him and will rule the world will go after the woman,, God protect the woman, so he goes after christian in the other nations.. (her offspring)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then read the Bible for goodness sake.
The christians in Israel being persecuted from city to city in Israel are not beingb be persecuted by a Roman .

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



There will be no Romans persecuting the christians in Israel.

No.

they will be persecuting christians throughout the whole world.

Try studying Daniel. And other OT prophets. And revelations

I do not know who taught you. But they were wrong

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then stop saying it will be a Roman who persecutes the christians in Israel because it's not.
Rome does not govern Israel.

I NEVER SAID THIS, YOU KEEP SAYING IT.

Rev 12: So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Also proving when satan is cast out. He HAS A SHORT TIME

17. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

He goes after gentile Christians, and he is allowed for a time

rev 13: 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having [b]seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority

Here is the roman king, the final king of the revived Roman Empire who is in power when Christ returns, He has the power of the first three kings (the lion - babylon, the bear - Media-Persia and the leopard - Greece)

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The world. NOT ISREAL! And the saints NOT THE WOMAN

14. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The world. NOT ISREAL.

study my friend, Please study

 

[tailgator]

No, it will not be,

He is the prince of the people who destroyed the temple in 70 AD. The final gentile ruler of the age of the gentiles.

It is not a Judean king.

I never said roman christians would do anything, STOP with your nonsense, or I will put you on ignore.

The roman gentile KING who comes from the sea (gentiles) who will set himself up as God and blaspheme him and will rule the world will go after the woman,, God protect the woman, so he goes after christian in the other nations.. (her offspring)

The beast can not go after the woman in the wilderness.Like Herod couldn't go after Jesus in Egypt.
The woman is out of Herods reach in the wilderness.
Where the woman goes,Herod can not follow.

Revelation 12:14
The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

 

[tailgator]

No.

they will be persecuting christians throughout the whole world.

Try studying Daniel. And other OT prophets. And revelations

I do not know who taught you. But they were wrong

Not according to Jesus.
Jesus said the Jews will be persecuting christians in Israel.

The cities of Israel are not in China.

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


Can you name one city of Israel that is in South Africa?

 

[tailgator]

I NEVER SAID THIS, YOU KEEP SAYING IT.

Rev 12: So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Also proving when satan is cast out. He HAS A SHORT TIME

17. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

He goes after gentile Christians, and he is allowed for a time

rev 13: 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having [b]seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority

Here is the roman king, the final king of the revived Roman Empire who is in power when Christ returns, He has the power of the first three kings (the lion - babylon, the bear - Media-Persia and the leopard - Greece)

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The world. NOT ISREAL! And the saints NOT THE WOMAN

14. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The world. NOT ISREAL.

study my friend, Please study

That's right.
Israel is not the world

The christians die n Israel .

Mathew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.


The woman's seed is instructed in the gospel to not leave Israel.
It's not Rome who kills the christians in Jerusalem.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The beast can not go after the woman in the wilderness.Like Herod couldn't go after Jesus in Egypt.
The woman is out of Herods reach in the wilderness.
Where the woman goes,Herod can not follow.

Revelation 12:14
The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Yes,

the woman will be protected.

But at that time, not from Herod. But from the future king of the final beast, The feet and toes of Iron and Clay of Dan 2, The ferocious 4th . beast of Dan 7. The prince who is to come of Daniel 9, and the beast out of the sea of Rev 13. which is Rome, or some semblance of the roman empire that was in power when Christ walked this earth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not according to Jesus.
Jesus said the Jews will be persecuting christians in Israel.

The cities of Israel are not in China.

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


Can you name one city of Israel that is in South Africa?

lol.

He is talking to believers who are alive at this time.

It would not matter if they are in Judea (I doubt there will be many believers in jerusalem at the time the man of sin reveals himself)

Not sure what part of the "world" you fail to see. Whoever endures until the end, when CHrist returns, will be saved, and when he returns, he will gather his elect from the four corners of the world.. ie. China, USA, Russia wherever they are.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's right.
Israel is not the world

The christians die n Israel .

This is wrong.

Mathew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.


The woman's seed is instructed in the gospel to not leave Israel.
It's not Rome who kills the christians in Jerusalem.

lol. they are not? Your synagogues. Gentile believers do not have Synagogues, Jews do.

And whoever is in Jerusalem is told to run like man when they see the abomination of desolation. EVERYONE in jersualem (let the reader understand)

Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.


This is a worlwide event, so serious, an Extinction even is most likely going to occure (nuclear war) which Gods puts a stop too when he returns.. why? for the sake of the elect (jew and gentile alike)

 

[tailgator]

Yes,

the woman will be protected.

But at that time, not from Herod. But from the future king of the final beast, The feet and toes of Iron and Clay of Dan 2, The ferocious 4th . beast of Dan 7. The prince who is to come of Daniel 9, and the beast out of the sea of Rev 13. which is Rome, or some semblance of the roman empire that was in power when Christ walked this earth

Herod has no authority outside Judea.

 

[tailgator]

This is wrong.



lol. they are not? Your synagogues. Gentile believers do not have Synagogues, Jews do.

And whoever is in Jerusalem is told to run like man when they see the abomination of desolation. EVERYONE in jersualem (let the reader understand)

Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.


This is a worlwide event, so serious, an Extinction even is most likely going to occure (nuclear war) which Gods puts a stop too when he returns.. why? for the sake of the elect (jew and gentile alike)

Of coarse the occupants of judea when they see the nuke placed in Jerusalem..They will flee without even grabbing a coat .The great earthquake and the fearful sights in the heavens is enough to give someone a heart attack..

But that takes place after the christians have all been beaten in the synagogues in Israel.

 

[tailgator]

lol.

He is talking to believers who are alive at this time.

It would not matter if they are in Judea (I doubt there will be many believers in jerusalem at the time the man of sin reveals himself)

Not sure what part of the "world" you fail to see. Whoever endures until the end, when CHrist returns, will be saved, and when he returns, he will gather his elect from the four corners of the world.. ie. China, USA, Russia wherever they are.

He is talking to believers in Israel .He told them to not leave Israel in that chapter.
So they are persecuted by the apostate Jews through all the cities of Israel.



cities of Israel

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.




These who are persecuted are only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.They are commanded to not go to the gentiles.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Herod has no authority outside Judea.

I literally have no idea why you keep bringing Herod up.

He will not be around when the beast takes power and goes after the woman, Remember these events take place AFTER the child is killed and then taken up to his throne.. Herod is long gone by this time

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of coarse the occupants of judea when they see the nuke placed in Jerusalem..They will flee without even grabbing a coat .The great earthquake and the fearful sights in the heavens is enough to give someone a heart attack..

But that takes place after the christians have all been beaten in the synagogues in Israel.

WHAT???????????

The flee when they see an idol placed in the holy place (the abomination of desolation) not a nuke..

where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He is talking to believers in Israel .He told them to not leave Israel in that chapter.
So they are persecuted by the apostate Jews through all the cities of Israel.

He told them to LEAVE JERUSALEM.

Matt 24: 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

He did not tell anyone to stay

cities of Israel

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Flee.. to another city..

Its in black and white

These who are persecuted are only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.They are commanded to not go to the gentiles.

do what?

Ok, I can not continue with this, I am not sure where you are coming up with this, No one I know or ever met says what you are saying You will need to explain more. then you will have to explain why Jesus told everyone in Judea to flea to the montains when the see the event that will occur

Because right now. your not doing very well.

 

[Randy Kluth]

According to Daniel,the time of the end is when the great tribulation takes place (Daniel 12:1)and the resurrection he wrote about in( Daniel 12:2)
Also the man of sin comes to his end at that time (Daniel 11:45.).Dan 11:45 as also mentions his embassy being moved to Jerusalem.


As for scholars.They would love to see the things I see.All of their commentaries come from the same source.Jason of Cyrene.
I'm glad I was paying attention when I did before I had heard of Jason's interpretation.

Many historical facts come from single sources. The question is, are the sources credible? And the question follows: What are your sources?

The "time of the end" in Dan 12.1 may indeed have a "last days" context, and so can refer to the "end" of matters concerned with that. From Dan 11 to Dan 12.1 there is an historical sweep from the time of Antiochus 4 to the Roman era and beyond, leading to the time of the resurrection, which is in the "last days." The "end" of those matters certainly do involve the last days.

But in Dan 8 and 11 the "time of the end" seems to concern the end of historical events involving Antiochus 4. So I think we should distinguish between the "end" of things concerning Antiochus 4 and the "end" of the age, which is concerned with the Antichrist.

Terms do not have a fixed meaning here, and have to be interpreted based on context, and not on some assumed "futurist" version of ancient prophecies. The "end" does not automatically mean "the end of the world." It could be the "end of sacrifices," or the "end of the temple." It could be the "end of Antiochus" or the "end of distress associated with a particular event." In some cases involving futurist prophecies it may be the "end of the age."

 

[Randy Kluth]

Daniel 12:6-7
And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


A time,times and a half is 3.5 years in the word of God.42 months.
That is how long it is from.the time the king of the north gives israel.his armed forces in Daniel 11:31 to the resurrection in Daniel 12:2.

The same amount of time in revelation 13 concerning the persecution of the saints by the beast.42 months from.the time the second beast arrives to aid the first beast to the time of the end.


Daniel 11:33-35 is talking about the same persecution as revelation 13 and Daniel 7.

Yes, the context for the "end" of this particular period of "great tribulation" is indeed the Last Days. 3.5 years here goes back to Dan 7, where that period of time is ascribed to the Antichrist.

Daniel, in ch. 12, is having two major events summarized for him--event that will be significant in Daniel's future. The 1st event mentioned involves the 3.5 years of Antichristian terror. The 2nd event mentioned is the 1290 days of Antiochus 4's reign of terror. This had been described earlier in the book, in chs. 8 and 11.

Both events similarly involve periods of time roughly 3.5 years. But they are two separate events, and the angel does not expect that Daniel will understand all of these details. They were given for the generations in which they would be fulfilled. And they have been indeed major events in the history of Israel. The Antichristian prophecy has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[tailgator]

I literally have no idea why you keep bringing Herod up.

He will not be around when the beast takes power and goes after the woman, Remember these events take place AFTER the child is killed and then taken up to his throne.. Herod is long gone by this time

Because it was Herod who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born
The man who felt he and he alone is king of the Jews.

 

[tailgator]

He told them to LEAVE JERUSALEM.

Matt 24: 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

He did not tell anyone to stay

Flee.. to another city..

Its in black and white

do what?

Ok, I can not continue with this, I am not sure where you are coming up with this, No one I know or ever met says what you are saying You will need to explain more. then you will have to explain why Jesus told everyone in Judea to flea to the montains when the see the event that will occur

Because right now. your not doing very well.

Why would the saints of God need to flee when they are redeemed?

You believe only the saints who can run fast will be saved?


Luke 21

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.