the woman and the flood

[tailgator]

Oh, gotcha now. You're talking about the church in Israel, and not the entire international Church? I suppose that's a possible interpretation.

As for 2 periods of 3.5 years, I don't interpret Daniel's 70th Week that way. I feel that was fulfilled at the death of Christ. But I realize there are other respectable views.

I only see one time of persecution in Israeli lasting 3.5 years at the time of the end.
It's when the mark of the beast is given to everyone except Israel's watchmen who are imprisoned and killed for their testimony.I believe the Arab Christians and Greek church and such will flee into the wilderness.

It begins after the armed forces of the north arrive in Israel ,42 months before the time of the end.

Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come

 

[tailgator]

Actually Israel will flee to the wilderness.. She is the woman,.

The church (gentile believers) are the offspring. and will be persecuted greatly during this time, and God will allow it

Not sure I understand what your saying here. who is persecuting who?

Israel is never overcome, at the end, Israel repents and is restored.

The Israeli government will be doing the persecuting.The watchmen of Israel will be persecuted in all the streets of Israel.They are hated and despised by the Jews who reject Jesus.

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



Israel watchmen will be betrayed to death by their own family members.They will.be hated by everyone in Israel and will be persecuted throughout all the cities of Israel till Christ is come just as Jesus said they will.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I only see one time of persecution in Israeli lasting 3.5 years at the time of the end.
It's when the mark of the beast is given to everyone except Israel's watchmen who are imprisoned and killed for their testimony.I believe the Arab Christians and Greek church and such will flee into the wilderness.

I'm not clear if you're seeing that Revelation is speaking of a global persecution of Christians or only an Israeli persecution of Christians? At times it does seem that it is primarily a global persecution of Christians. But at some point it looks like it's speaking of something going on in Israel. Not really sure...

It begins after the armed forces of the north arrive in Israel ,42 months before the time of the end.

Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come

The problem I have with this is see Dan 11 as a reference to ancient history, with Antiochus 4 battling orthodox Jews, among others. He may, however, typify some of what Antichrist will do, as I see it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Israeli government will be doing the persecuting.The watchmen of Israel will be persecuted in all the streets of Israel.They are hated and despised by the Jews who reject Jesus.

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



Israel watchmen will be betrayed to death by their own family members.They will.be hated by everyone in Israel and will be persecuted throughout all the cities of Israel till Christ is come just as Jesus said they will.

If they obey Jesus they will run. Most will.

th persecution will come from the antichrist. Who is a roman, not a jew

 

[tailgator]

I'm not clear if you're seeing that Revelation is speaking of a global persecution of Christians or only an Israeli persecution of Christians? At times it does seem that it is primarily a global persecution of Christians. But at some point it looks like it's speaking of something going on in Israel. Not really sure...

The problem I have with this is see Dan 11 as a reference to ancient history, with Antiochus 4 battling orthodox Jews, among others. He may, however, typify some of what Antichrist will do, as I see it.

Daniel 11 is not ancient history.
Unless you see events such as the Beirut bombings,Both us/Iraq wars as ancient history.

The verses I quoted for you says this persecution lasts till the time of the end.Its talking about the final 3.5 years before the coming of Christ.


Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come


Did I miss the time of the end in ancient history ?

 

[tailgator]

If they obey Jesus they will run. Most will.

th persecution will come from the antichrist. Who is a roman, not a jew

So you believe the Romes christians will.persecute Jesus disciples in synagogues in Israel?

Does that make sense to you somehow?

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Mathew 10
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

Mark 13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you believe the Romes christians will.persecute Jesus disciples in synagogues in Israel?

please tell me where i said this/

can you read?

Does that make sense to you somehow?

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Mathew 10
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

Mark 13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them

Rev 12. And the least will go after the woman.

who is the beast? The final gentile leader who comes from rome.. who will be defeated by Christ when he returns

 

[tailgator]

please tell me where i said this/

can you read?

Rev 12. And the least will go after the woman.

who is the beast? The final gentile leader who comes from rome.. who will be defeated by Christ when he returns

As I stated before.
It was Herod ,king of Judea(a Jew) who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born.

Revelation12

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Do you ignore scripture on purpose?
There was no gentile who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As I stated before.
It was Herod ,king of Judea(a Jew) who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born.

Revelation12

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Do you ignore scripture on purpose?
There was no gentile who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born.

And who do you think convinced Herod to do this?

do I ignore scripture?

Lets see

who is the dragon? Is it satan, or is it Herod

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


So who is really ignoring what the passage says? The one who said it is Herod. Or the one who said it is satan (who decieved or convinced Herod?

yes, i thought so

 

[tailgator]

And who do you think convinced Herod to do this?

do I ignore scripture?

Lets see

who is the dragon? Is it satan, or is it Herod

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


So who is really ignoring what the passage says? The one who said it is Herod. Or the one who said it is satan (who decieved or convinced Herod?

yes, i thought so

You said he is a Roman

He was not a Roman.He was a Jew and raised as a Jew.Why you want to bring Romes christians into this is beyond me.

 

[tailgator]

Why do Christians hate christians while loving antichrist?

If a Jew says Jesus is not the Christ,then some Christians say that Jew is God's chosen.They believe he can do no wrong.

But if a gentile says Jesus is the Christ,then some Christians say that Christian is antichrist.

 

[tailgator]

They say yes,all the christians in Rome will kill the christians in Israel.
What a load of crap.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You said he is a Roman

He was not a Roman.He was a Jew and raised as a Jew.Why you want to bring Romes christians into this is beyond me.

No.

I said the future prince who will go after the woman will be a roman.

please try to read what I am saying..

The antichrist, who will be empowered by the beast will be the future leader of the Roman Empire which is the final form of the final beast of Daniel. Who Christ will personally come to defeat.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why do Christians hate christians while loving antichrist?

If a Jew says Jesus is not the Christ,then some Christians say that Jew is God's chosen.They believe he can do no wrong.

But if a gentile says Jesus is the Christ,then some Christians say that Christian is antichrist.

What?

Who believes they can do no wrong

Paul said they were ENEMIES because of the gospel. But BELOVED because of the election

God called them out. And chose them for a purpose. Gods gift is irrevocable.

No christian would call a christian who says jesus is the christ is antichrist, this too is nonsense

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They say yes,all the christians in Rome will kill the christians in Israel.
What a load of crap.

NO ONE SAYS THIS

Good God man, do you know how to read. Or do you just make this stuff up??

 

[tailgator]

No.

I said the future prince who will go after the woman will be a roman.

please try to read what I am saying..

The antichrist, who will be empowered by the beast will be the future leader of the Roman Empire which is the final form of the final beast of Daniel. Who Christ will personally come to defeat.

No,it won't

Herod ,king of Judea,was a Jew,
The one who will go after the woman will be king of Judea,a Jew.

Romes christians are not going to invade Israel .Not only do the christians in Rome have no thirst for blood,they don't care for war at all.

 

[tailgator]

NO ONE SAYS THIS

Good God man, do you know how to read. Or do you just make this stuff up??

Then read the Bible for goodness sake.
The christians in Israel being persecuted from city to city in Israel are not beingb be persecuted by a Roman .

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



There will be no Romans persecuting the christians in Israel.

 

[tailgator]

What?

Who believes they can do no wrong

Paul said they were ENEMIES because of the gospel. But BELOVED because of the election

God called them out. And chose them for a purpose. Gods gift is irrevocable.

No christian would call a christian who says jesus is the christ is antichrist, this too is nonsense

Then stop saying it will be a Roman who persecutes the christians in Israel because it's not.
Rome does not govern Israel.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Daniel 11 is not ancient history.
Unless you see events such as the Beirut bombings,Both us/Iraq wars as ancient history.

I don't see the Beirut bombing and the US/Iraq wars as ancient history, but I do see Dan 11 as ancient history, as do many scholars. Not being argumentative about it--I just agree with the scholars that I have read in their commentaries.

The verses I quoted for you says this persecution lasts till the time of the end.Its talking about the final 3.5 years before the coming of Christ.

The "end" does not always refer to the end of the present age. Sometimes it refers to the end of a reign or to the end of a particular stage in history--it depends on the context. Many futurists interpret "the time of the end" to refer to the end of the age. I just don't share their view. Again, many scholars say otherwise in their commentaries. It is, I believe, an arguable point.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come

This may refer to the end of this particular period of trouble.

 

[tailgator]

I don't see the Beirut bombing and the US/Iraq wars as ancient history, but I do see Dan 11 as ancient history, as do many scholars. Not being argumentative about it--I just agree with the scholars that I have read in their commentaries.

The "end" does not always refer to the end of the present age. Sometimes it refers to the end of a reign or to the end of a particular stage in history--it depends on the context. Many futurists interpret "the time of the end" to refer to the end of the age. I just don't share their view. Again, many scholars say otherwise in their commentaries. It is, I believe, an arguable point.

This may refer to the end of this particular period of trouble.

According to Daniel,the time of the end is when the great tribulation takes place (Daniel 12:1)and the resurrection he wrote about in( Daniel 12:2)
Also the man of sin comes to his end at that time (Daniel 11:45.).Dan 11:45 as also mentions his embassy being moved to Jerusalem.


As for scholars.They would love to see the things I see.All of their commentaries come from the same source.Jason of Cyrene.
I'm glad I was paying attention when I did before I had heard of Jason's interpretation.