DEAD??
First of all – those in Heaven in the presence of the eternal almighty God are MORE alive than YOU are. I guess you never hear of the Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah conversed with the Lord (Matt. 17:1–8, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36).
Secondly – ANY ability or power that the saints in Heaven have is through CHRIST.
Heb. 12:1 assures us that they are witnesses and that we should behave accordingly. A “witness” by definition is someone who SEES and HEARS thing.
Finally – why would someone need to be “omnipresent” to hear multiple prayers? “Omnipresent” means “EVERYWHERE”. If they are hearing a finite number of petitions, WHY would they need to be omnipresent?? Their ability to hear multiple petitions is THROUGH CHRIAST.
THIS is why we read about the Elders in Heaven interceding on our behalf by taking our petitions to GOD as bowls of incense (Rev. 8:5).
Your lack of faith is appalling . . .
DEAD??
First of all – those in Heaven in the presence of the eternal almighty God are MORE alive than YOU are. I guess you never hear of the Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah conversed with the Lord (Matt. 17:1–8, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36).
Secondly – ANY ability or power that the saints in Heaven have is through CHRIST.
Heb. 12:1 assures us that they are witnesses and that we should behave accordingly. A “witness” by definition is someone who SEES and HEARS thing.
Finally – why would someone need to be “omnipresent” to hear multiple prayers? “Omnipresent” means “EVERYWHERE”. If they are hearing a finite number of petitions, WHY would they need to be omnipresent?? Their ability to hear multiple petitions is THROUGH CHRIAST.
THIS is why we read about the Elders in Heaven interceding on our behalf by taking our petitions to GOD as bowls of incense (Rev. 8:5).
Your lack of faith is appalling . . .
DEAD??
First of all – those in Heaven in the presence of the eternal almighty God are MORE alive than YOU are. I guess you never hear of the Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah conversed with the Lord (Matt. 17:1–8, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36).
Oh for goodness sake Bread.
When a person DIES....they are DEAD.
Do you still see your DEAD relatives?
I don't think so.
Did I say I believe in soul sleep?
NO.
Only a liar like you could accuse persons of saying something they never did.
And dishonest too.
You know very well what I meant by DEAD.
Or do you think YOU are the only person on this thread familiar with scripture.
I mean Moses and Elijah......really.
Secondly – ANY ability or power that the saints in Heaven have is through CHRIST.
Nice. You mean that Christ also gave the SAINTS the ability to be OMNIPRESENT and hear everyone's prayers?
Where in the bible is this stated?
Could you provide some verses please?
Thanks.
Heb. 12:1 assures us that they are witnesses and that we should behave accordingly. A “witness” by definition is someone who SEES and HEARS thing.
Well, here are some facts.
1. ONE verse does not a doctrine make.
2. Witness can have different meanings.
3. The CC loves to take verses out of context.
Example: 1 Corinthians 13:9-13 is supposed to prove purgatory. Try reading it again without your CC lenses on.
It's speaking about the work of ministers - about building on the foundation which is Christ. NO PURGATORY to be seen.
And, I hate to "go to the Greek", but in this case it's necessary due to the meaning of the word WITNESS being used not only in the Greek language, but also taking into consideration the culture ... maybe you forgot about this in hermeneutics.
WITNESS Hebrews 12:1
b. in an historical sense: Acts 10:41; 1 Timothy 6:12; (2 Timothy 2:2); one who is a spectator of anything, e. g. of a contest, Hebrews 12:1; with a genitive of the object, Luke 24:48; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:32; Acts 3:15; Acts 5:32 G L T Tr WH; Acts 10:39; Acts 26:16; 1 Peter 5:1; with a genitive of the possessor 'one who testifies for one', Acts 1:8 L T Tr WH; ; with a genitive of the possessor and of the object, Acts 5:32 Rec.; μάρτυρα εἶναι τίνι, to be a witness for one, serve him by testimony, Acts 1:8 R G; ; (Luke 11:48 T Tr WH). He is said to be a witness, to whose attestation appeal is made; hence, the formulas μάρτυς μου ἐστιν ὁ Θεός, Romans 1:9; Philippians 1:8; Θεός μάρτυς, 1 Thessalonians 2:5: μάρτυρα τόν Θεόν ἐπικαλοῦμαι, 2 Corinthians 1:23; ὑμεῖς μάρτυρες καί ὁ Θεός, 1 Thessalonians 2:10; the faithful interpreters of God's counsels are called God's witnesses: Revelation 11:3; Christ is reckoned among them, Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14.
c. in an ethical sense those are called μάρτυρες Ἰησοῦ, who after his example have proved the strength and genuineness of their faith in Christ by undergoing a violent death (cf B. D. American edition and Dict. of Chris. Antiq. under the word ): Acts 22:20; Revelation 2:13; Revelation 17:6.
source: Strong's Greek: 3144. μάρτυς (martus) -- a witness
Finally – why would someone need to be “omnipresent” to hear multiple prayers? “Omnipresent” means “EVERYWHERE”. If they are hearing a finite number of petitions, WHY would they need to be omnipresent?? Their ability to hear multiple petitions is THROUGH CHRIAST.
Correct.
OMNIPRESENT
In order to hear the prayers of EVERYONE ON EARTH....
OMNIPRESENCE becomes necessary.
I thought only God had the OMNI's....
OMNIPRESENT
OMNISCIENT
OMNIPOTENT
THIS is why we read about the Elders in Heaven interceding on our behalf by taking our petitions to GOD as bowls of incense (Rev. 8:5).
Your lack of faith is appalling . . .
Revelation again.
Is this the best you can do?
Jesus said we are to pray LIKE THIS.
Matthew 6:9
OUR FATHER, Who art in heaven.....
OUR FATHER
Not Padre Pio
Saint Anthonly
Saint Joseph
etc.
They are DEAD PERSONS who are trying to enjoy their life IN HEAVEN....
not there to worry about those left on earth.
HOW could that possibly bring any JOY??
You'll have to do better than Hebrews 12:1 to convince any normal person that we should be praying
to DEAD PERSONS.
