The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[The Light]

You can keep making these statements but you are totally unable to actually prove it in the text. Where is "the great tribulation" mentioned after the rapture here?

The rapture happens before the seals are opened. The 5th seal is the great tribulation.

This is called exegesis, something you do not seem to know anything about.

You seem to have trouble proving anything. Always wrong. Always.

This is what happens when you incorrectly conclude that he 144,000 is the Church. The 144,000 is exactly what the Word says they are.

 

[WPM]

Hello…. Here’s my understanding concerning The “Day of the Lord.” It is a time yet future. It begins on the first day of the millennium, which is the the Day Jesus returns at the 7th trump. This is when, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed into our spiritual bodies:

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

The Day of the Lord is one long day; it lasts 1,000 years.



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Where does it say "the Day of the Lord is one long day; it lasts 1,000 years"?

 

[WPM]

The rapture happens before the seals are opened. The 5th seal is the great tribulation.


You seem to have trouble proving anything. Always wrong. Always.

This is what happens when you incorrectly conclude that he 144,000 is the Church. The 144,000 is exactly what the Word says they are.

Yea right. Zero Scripture. Typical!

 

[WPM]

The reason Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 38 is near at hand is because when a person breaks down the verses in Ezekiel 39, also about the Gog/Magog event, the 7 years that follow (Ezekiel 39:9) end with the Armageddon event in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Simply compare that text, verses 17-20, with Revelation 19:17-18.

And verses 21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

There is 0% chance of Amil being correct. I am not being harsh or name calling. Just go read through Ezekiel 39.

Not so. John references the Old Testament 500 times and lends names, events and ceremonies from the Old Testament to illustrate New Testament truths. That does not mean he is talking about the actual event being future.

 

[The Light]

Hello…. Here’s my understanding concerning The “Day of the Lord.” It is a time yet future.

Yes it is.

It begins on the first day of the millennium,

This would not be correct. The Day of the Lord is the wrath of God. It is the one-year day of vengeance that begins when the 7th seal is opened.

which is the the Day Jesus returns at the 7th trump

Jesus returns for His Church before the seals are opened. See Revelation 4 and 5.

. This is when, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed into our spiritual bodies:

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

This occurs at the 6th seal which is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. He remains in the clouds for the harvest, seen here
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

The Day of the Lord is one long day; it lasts 1,000 years.

The Day of the Lord lasts one year. It is the day of vengeance and the year of recompenses.

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[The Light]

Yea right. Zero Scripture. Typical!

How many times do I need to post the scriptures of Rev 4, 5 and 6.

 

[honeycomb]

Where does it say "the Day of the Lord is one long day; it lasts 1,000 years"?

The "Lord's Day" is one day as God measures days but it is really 1000 years as we measure days.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

It will last 1000 years - "The Millennium"

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The transport is ancient – “horses” (Ezekiel 38:4) and “chariots” (Ezekiel 39:20).
The weapons are ancient – “bows and the arrows” (Ezekiel 39:9).
The protection is ancient "bucklers and shields" (Ezekiel 38:4 & 39:9).
The spoil is ancient – “cattle and goods” (Ezekiel 38:13).

Like the pretribs, Doug has no problem manipulating scripture to make it say what he wants it to say.

In the Douggg Translation, it says "trucks" and "trailers" instead of horses and chariots. It says "sniper guns and missiles" instead of "bows and arrows". It says "fortified bunkers and tanks" instead of "bucklers and shields". It says "prime rib and 75 inch TVs" instead of "cattle and goods".

 

[WPM]

The "Lord's Day" is one day as God measures days but it is really 1000 years as we measure days.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

It will last 1000 years - "The Millennium"

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3

It does not say what you say it does. It does not say "the day of the Lord" is 1,000 years or "the Lord's Day" is 1,000 years. That is a Premil invention. It is talking about brevity of time with God.

 

[WPM]

How many times do I need to post the scriptures of Rev 4, 5 and 6.

Why are you so sheepish about this? Why will you not quote it? What are you scared of?

Quote it. Show me your rapture - if you can. You hide behind references. You have to.

 

[The Light]

This is all sheepish talk. Why will you not quote it? What are you scared of?

Quote it. Show me your rapture - if you can. You hide behind references. You have to.

Tell you what. I will be happy to give you the scriptures but first you already asked me for a pretrib scripture. You claimed that you were going to dissect it. I produced the scripture that you requested and you did not dissect it. You do what you claimed you could do and I will repost the other scriptures that you are bantering for.

Here is your quote.
"Bring one Scripture to the table that supports Pretrib and quote it in full and let us dissect it. It is time to put up or shut up. What are you scared of?"

Your turn. What are you scared of?

 

[covenantee]

This is what happens when you incorrectly conclude that he 144,000 is the Church. The 144,000 is exactly what the Word says they are.

Tell us "exactly what the Word says they are." With Scripture verse references.

 

[WPM]

Tell you what. I will be happy to give you the scriptures but first you already asked me for a pretrib scripture. You claimed that you were going to dissect it. I produced the scripture that you requested and you did not dissect it. You do what you claimed you could do and I will repost the other scriptures that you are bantering for.

Here is your quote.
"Bring one Scripture to the table that supports Pretrib and quote it in full and let us dissect it. It is time to put up or shut up. What are you scared of?"

Your turn. What are you scared of?

Which Scripture proves your case? Stop being cryptic.

 

[WPM]

Tell us "exactly what the Word says they are." With Scripture verse references.

Don't hold your breath! He is scared to quote Scripture because to do so would expose his doctrine.

 

[jeffweeder]

Tell us "exactly what the Word says they are." With Scripture verse references.

I will give it a go.

The 144.000 are a percentage of all the tribes of Israel.
That places them into another class of people with Abraham's quality of faith and Abe wasnt an Israelite or a jew.
Just a little bit of Abe in all of them and any other human being who believes in Jesus.
That creates one new man belonging to one fold.


Revelation 14:1

The Lamb and the 144,000 on Mount Zion​

Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.


Only one way to get Gods name on your forehead--through Jesus Christ our Lord, whether Jew or Gentile


The 144,000 becomes a number no-one can count, purchased from the earth.

It is therefore the Church no matter how you might want to dice it.

 

[The Light]

Tell us "exactly what the Word says they are." With Scripture verse references.

As if you didn't know.

Rev 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

And no need to post what you think those tribes mean. I've heard it all before.

 

[The Light]

Don't hold your breath! He is scared to quote Scripture because to do so would expose his doctrine.

Already quoted what you asked many times. And I will be happy to quote it again after you can find the time to do what you said you would do. You know...........the dissection of the scripture I've already posted.

Quit moaning and do what you said. Are you scared? If it's so simple just do it.

 

[The Light]

I will give it a go.

The 144.000 are a percentage of all the tribes of Israel.
That places them into another class of people with Abraham's quality of faith and Abe wasnt an Israelite or a jew.
Just a little bit of Abe in all of them and any other human being who believes in Jesus.
That creates one new man belonging to one fold.

Wow. Who fed you that? I appreciate their expertise in getting you to swallow that.

Revelation 14:1

The Lamb and the 144,000 on Mount Zion​

Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.


Only one way to get Gods name on your forehead--through Jesus Christ our Lord, whether Jew or Gentile

Hey. you got one.

The 144,000 becomes a number no-one can count, purchased from the earth.

It is therefore the Church no matter how you might want to dice it.

Yeah..........BUT...............it's not the Church that is mostly Gentiles of today. That Church will be in heaven already raptured before the 144,00 become Christians.

 

[The Light]

Which Scripture proves your case? Stop being cryptic.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[The Light]

Don't hold your breath! He is scared to quote Scripture because to do so would expose his doctrine.

Yeah. I'm terrified that you might actually understand one. Then what would you do?