The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Taken]

Hey! No one is going to take any lectures from you or your Pretrib assailants. Look at some of the wicked, venomous and vulgar rhetoric that you are hurling towards…

Look…
People have different beliefs.
Each should know WHY they believe what they believe.

Name calling is nothing new…everyone does it, even you, get over it.
Do your own research…God Himself and Jesus both called human men…specific and in general … unflattering names!

It is OLD, Boring, to begin a discussion on a SPECIFIC TOPIC….and have it evolve to whining ABOUT name calling.

It is OLD, Boring and laughable…for one to carry on, and on, and on, with desperation trying to MAKE the TOPIC ABOUT…
An Attacker and “THEY” A Victim … LOL

Fact is no one cares IF words bother you.
Fact is no one cares IF words bother me.
Facts is the tit for tat name calling simple deflects from the TOPIC at hand.

So WHAT is the Purpose for men IN Christ to be bodily present upon the face of the Earth WHEN God sends tribulations and wraths DOWN from Heaven upon the face of the earth and it’s inhabitants?








































































Here are those attackers:

@MA2444
@Taken
@rebuilder 454
@The Light

And guess what? Not one single apology from one of you! Shame on you Pretribbers!

 

[Taken]

Until you understand apocalyptic language you will never understand Revelation. That is your main problem. Pretribbers literalize what is symbolic and symbolize what is literal.

Since YOU SAY…Pretribber’s liberalize what is symbolic and symbolize what is literal…

Does that mean…YOU believe Scripture teaches symbolism and literalism?

IF your answer is YES…

THEN how DO YOU determine what IN Scripture IS symbolism and What IS literal ?

 

[WPM]

Since YOU SAY…Pretribber’s liberalize what is symbolic and symbolize what is literal…

Does that mean…YOU believe Scripture teaches symbolism and literalism?

IF your answer is YES…

THEN how DO YOU determine what IN Scripture IS symbolism and What IS literal ?

Most Christians are aware of the crucial mandate of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”

If one is to only look at one verse in a section of Scripture in isolation, without considering the actual context of that passage, and without contemplating the consistent teaching of the rest of Scripture on the same topic, you could totally misrepresent its intent.

When someone takes one Scripture and makes it contradicts numerous other Scripture you know that their understanding of that text is wrong.

Multiple related and relevant Scriptures exist to aid and determine the appropriate and accurate determination of any given truth and the establishment of context in regards to most major doctrines or pivotal prophetic events. Without their existence, exegesis becomes eisegesis, and accurate scriptural interpretation becomes bias private interpretation or wild speculation.

 

[WPM]

Since YOU SAY…Pretribber’s liberalize what is symbolic and symbolize what is literal…

Does that mean…YOU believe Scripture teaches symbolism and literalism?

IF your answer is YES…

THEN how DO YOU determine what IN Scripture IS symbolism and What IS literal ?

You need to sort out your quotes in previous post.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hey! No one is going to take any lectures from you or your Pretrib assailants. Look at some of the wicked, venomous and vulgar rhetoric that you are hurling towards Posttribbers on these threads. You seem in capable of talking in Christian manner.





































































Here are those attackers:

@MA2444
@Taken
@rebuilder 454
@The Light

And guess what? Not one single apology from one of you! Shame on you Pretribbers!

Exactly! And they say we start the insults? A majority of their posts contain almost nothing but insults. None of them contain any exegesis of scripture. But, they complain about us? The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your offensive behavior directed at me is of no effect on me.

The feeling is mutual. The lack of self awareness of your own offensive behavior is hilarious.

Your false claims is a detriment toward those in the process of learning about the Lord God.

The FACT IS…
Scriptural teaching reveals …
…another (since the First Great tribulation FLOOD) GREAT tribulation From Heaven shall occur upon the face of the Earth and all its inhabitants.

The FACT IS…
The Lord Jesus PROVIDED the Knowledge OF…who, when, why, how an Individual bodily MAN, CAN ESCAPE being PRESENT “on the face of the Earth”…
During the DAYS…”OF”
(Forty two months, plus 1,260 days =7 years OF 7 seals, 7 trumps, 7 bowls = 21 judgements).

The FACT IS…
Every individual has the opportunity to hear, read, learn, trust, believe Jesus’ teaching…OR NOT.

The FACT IS…
Every individual on the Face of the Earth, (WITHOUT the SEAL of God ON THEIR FOREHEAD) during that 7 years Tribulation SENT from Heaven…
SHALL be negatively Effected with Great SUFFERING

You imply YOUR belief is CONFLICTING…
“IN” Christ…YET “ON” the face of the Earth during the DAYS…of Gods Tribulations, Judgements Wraths…sent down from heaven for 7 years.

WHY…?
Why would God LEAVE men IN Christ ON the.Face of the Earth to SUFFER…Gods own approved 21 Judgements?

WHY…?
Does Scripture compare and parallel the LAST Days Tribulations and Wrath coming down from Heaven…to the First Ancient Days Tribulation and Wrath sent down from Heaven?

DID it ESCAPE your UNDERSTANDING…the comparison and parallel IS ALSO IN REGARD TO; THE PEOPLE?

Regarding the PEOPLE:

First Great Tribulation…
* Few were raised UP above the face of the Earth.
* Those remaining ON the face of the Earth ALL Bodily Died.

Last Great Tribulation…
* Few SHALL BE raised UP above the face of the Earth.
* Those remaining ON the fac of the Earth…
~ SHALL SUFFER the negative effects upon the Earth.
~ SHALL ALL continue mortal and SUBJECT TO succumb to a MORAL BODILY DEATH.

* WHAT IS YOUR Reasoning AND Scriptural Support FOR men WHO HAVE;
~ been forgiven their sin against God
~ been bodily crucified with Christ Jesus
~ been bodily cleansed
~ been soul saved
~ been spirit quickened
~ been sanctified


To REMAIN ON the Face of the EARTH…during the days of Gods Tribulations and Wraths send down from Heaven?

How can anyone even respond to any of this randomness? You don't reference any scripture and don't exegete any scripture. I will not debate in this random, chaotic fashion that you use. If you ever decide to debate scripture while discussing specific scripture and talking about exactly what it means and why, let me know. Until then, this is a waste of time.

 

[WPM]

How can anyone even respond to any of this randomness? You don't reference any scripture and don't exegete any scripture. I will not debate in this random, chaotic fashion that you use.

Welcome to Pretrib exegesis!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Most Christians are aware of the crucial mandate of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”

If one is to only look at one verse in a section of Scripture in isolation, without considering the actual context of that passage, and without contemplating the consistent teaching of the rest of Scripture on the same topic, you could totally misrepresent its intent.

When someone takes one Scripture and makes it contradicts numerous other Scripture you know that their understanding of that text is wrong.

Multiple related and relevant Scriptures exist to aid and determine the appropriate and accurate determination of any given truth and the establishment of context in regards to most major doctrines or pivotal prophetic events. Without their existence, exegesis becomes eisegesis, and accurate scriptural interpretation becomes bias private interpretation or wild speculation.

Right. False doctrine is always formed by cherry picking scripture and interpreting verses in isolation from the rest of scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Welcome to Pretrib exegesis!

Yes. Where chaos and confusion reign supreme!

 

[Taken]

I do not hold that a rational mind or a rational argument based on logic is the product of a carnal mind.

There we differer.

God is Spirit.
A belief IN God, to have validity, MUST BE from a mans “spirit”.
Conversations with God are mans spirit to Gods Spirit.

Men can and do converse, discuss, mind to mind…

In Gods own approved words…
The carnal mind of man IS against God.
(Rom 8:7)


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, he does not and you are doing absolutely nothing to convince me otherwise.

Are you ready to be convinced?

You ignore the fact that you read 1 Thessalonians 5 with extreme doctrinal bias.

Was my argument based on doctrine? I don't think so. I was making an argument based on syntax.

It's not there. It's only in your imagination.

Paul's use of the phrase "now as to" indicates to the reader that he wishes to discuss a new subject. This is not a matter of opinion; it's a matter of fact rooted in grammar and syntax. As English speakers, we have no difficulty recognizing transitional statements when they appear. Verse 5:1 is a transitional statement.

It is worth noting that the new idea discussed in Chapter 5 is "times and seasons," which Jesus discussed in Acts.

Acts 1:6-7

So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority . . .​

In this passage, the Lord says he is not going to reveal when he will restore the kingdom to Israel. It is not for the apostles and disciples to know the times or seasons that the Father has fixed. From the Olivet discourse, we learn that although we are not allowed to know the exact time when a particular eschatological event will occur, we can discern when an event is approaching or impending based on recognizable signs. It's similar to how we can tell when summer is near when the leaves of a tree turn green.

So then, based on Jesus' teaching, we are better equipped to understand what Paul is saying. He wishes his readers to know that we can't know when the Day of the Lord will arrive, but we are allowed to know when it is approaching or impending based on recognizable signs.

By contrast, there are no signal events that mark the approach of the Rapture event. Jesus' single but essential piece of advice is "be ready."

What? He did write about the day of the Lord and said it is coming like a thief in the night at which point sudden destruction will come down from which "they shall not escape". What he was saying in verse 1 just has to do with what Jesus said about His coming which is that no one knows the day or hour, so there's no point in trying to predict exact times or seasons that will indicate when the day or hour of His coming will be.

Okay, sorry if I confused you. I inadvertently mischaracterized what Paul said. He meant that he had no reason to write to them about the "times and seasons," which, according to Jesus, we are not allowed to know.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I am asking you to support your own claims. What is unreasonable about that?

All you are proving by your avoidance is that what you believe is not in the Bible.

How don't see how your conclusion follows from what I said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you ready to be convinced?

You have no idea of what I can be convinced about. Do you think I have always been an Amil? No, I have not. Just recently, WPM convinced me that Revelation 10:1-4 is referring to Jesus. I thought before it was referencing some angel like maybe Michael or Gabriel, but he pointed out how the Greek word can mean "messenger" instead of angel and it clicked with me that it is indeed referring to Jesus. So, yes, I can be convinced by convincing arguments. I don't find your to be even slightly convincing. Sorry if that offends you, but I'm just being honest.

Was my argument based on doctrine? I don't think so. I was making an argument based on syntax.

You need to start making arguments based on what scripture teaches as a whole while using spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). Anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus is God is severely lacking in spiritual discernment, so I will be honest with you and say that it's very difficult to take you seriously at all, knowing what you believe.

Paul's use of the phrase "now as to" indicates to the reader that he wishes to discuss a new subject. This is not a matter of opinion; it's a matter of fact rooted in grammar and syntax. As English speakers, we have no difficulty recognizing transitional statements when they appear. Verse 5:1 is a transitional statement.

He was expanding on what he had just been talking about. That is obvious and no amount of nonsense about your supposed English expertise can convince me otherwise. Was scripture written in English? Does scripture ever tell us that we should interpret it based on English grammar rules as CadyandZoe understands them? No. So, your arguments are not convincing to me whatsoever. Period. Accept it.

It is worth noting that the new idea discussed in Chapter 5 is "times and seasons," which Jesus discussed in Acts.

Acts 1:6-7

So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority . . .​

In this passage, the Lord says he is not going to reveal when he will restore the kingdom to Israel. It is not for the apostles and disciples to know the times or seasons that the Father has fixed. From the Olivet discourse, we learn that although we are not allowed to know the exact time when a particular eschatological event will occur, we can discern when an event is approaching or impending based on recognizable signs. It's similar to how we can tell when summer is near when the leaves of a tree turn green.

So then, based on Jesus' teaching, we are better equipped to understand what Paul is saying. He wishes his readers to know that we can't know when the Day of the Lord will arrive, but we are allowed to know when it is approaching or impending based on recognizable signs.

By contrast, there are no signal events that mark the approach of the Rapture event. Jesus' single but essential piece of advice is "be ready."

How covenient for you to leave verse 8 off and only quote Acts 1:6-7. In verse 8 Jesus tells them how they would recognize when He was restoring the kingdom to Israel. It was not going to be in the way they thought He would do it.

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Okay, sorry if I confused you. I inadvertently mischaracterized what Paul said. He meant that he had no reason to write to them about the "times and seasons," which, according to Jesus, we are not allowed to know.

Yes. So, what is the reason you mischaracterized what Paul said then? I think you look at all of this with doctrinal bias and that is just another example of that.

 

[Taken]

Most Christians are aware of the crucial mandate of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”

If one is to only look at one verse in a section of Scripture in isolation, without considering the actual context of that passage, and without contemplating the consistent teaching of the rest of Scripture on the same topic, you could totally misrepresent its intent.

When someone takes one Scripture and makes it contradicts numerous other Scripture you know that their understanding of that text is wrong.

Multiple related and relevant Scriptures exist to aid and determine the appropriate and accurate determination of any given truth and the establishment of context in regards to most major doctrines or pivotal prophetic events. Without their existence, exegesis becomes eisegesis, and accurate scriptural interpretation becomes bias private interpretation or wild speculation.

Most Christians are aware of the crucial mandate of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”

If one is to only look at one verse in a section of Scripture in isolation, without considering the actual context of that passage, and without contemplating the consistent teaching of the rest of Scripture on the same topic, you could totally misrepresent its intent.

When someone takes one Scripture and makes it contradicts numerous other Scripture you know that their understanding of that text is wrong.

Multiple related and relevant Scriptures exist to aid and determine the appropriate and accurate determination of any given truth and the establishment of context in regards to most major doctrines or pivotal prophetic events. Without their existence, exegesis becomes eisegesis, and accurate scriptural interpretation becomes bias private interpretation or wild speculation.

My post to YOU was…

Does that mean…YOU believe Scripture teaches symbolism and literalism?

IF your answer is YES…

You answered nether YES or No.

My post continued “IF” you answered “YES”…

“THEN how DO YOU determine what IN Scripture IS symbolism and What IS literal ?”

I find neither your YES or NO…
Or your answer to how you made a determination regarding my question.

Thus your response was irrelevant.

 

[Taken]

You need to sort out your quotes in previous post.

No, I do not.

 

[WPM]

How don't see how your conclusion follows from what I said.

I am not talking about "refrigerators." I'm asking you to prove what you allege. That is where you are biblically stumped!

 

[WPM]

No, I do not.

LOL. It is included in my quote. I am trying to help you. Look at it!

 

[WPM]

My post to YOU was…

Does that mean…YOU believe Scripture teaches symbolism and literalism?

IF your answer is YES…

You answered nether YES or No.

My post continued “IF” you answered “YES”…

“THEN how DO YOU determine what IN Scripture IS symbolism and What IS literal ?”

I find neither your YES or NO…
Or your answer to how you made a determination regarding my question.

Thus your response was irrelevant.

Yes, I know. Biblical evidence seems to be "irrelevant" to you at the moment.

 

[Taken]

The feeling is mutual. The lack of self awareness of your own offensive behavior is hilarious.


How can anyone even respond to any of this randomness? You don't reference any scripture

That is false.

If you ever decide to debate scripture while discussing specific scripture and talking about exactly what it means and why, let me know. Until then, this is a waste of time.

You waste plenty of others time.

 

[WPM]

That is false.



You waste plenty of others time.

Open your Bible and start presenting biblical arguments instead of your usual insults.