Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Disavow what they all say ... and since we aren't scholars and just laymen, it is likely you won't value what any of us say either?
Heck, you don't even receive and accept that Paul said he was on Patmos ...
Did John really write Revelation while on Patmos? Maybe not.
- Thread starter DJT_47
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Heck, you don't even receive and accept that Paul said he was on Patmos ...
Exactly! I could care less what you or anyone says! I have eyes, understanding, and my own intellect which I rely upon when reading and studying God's word.
whitemorning
Member
That's an interesting observation. The use of "was" in past tense suggests that John wrote this after his time on Patmos had ended. This aligns with Revelation 10:11, where he is told he must prophesy again, indicating he was no longer in exile when he wrote the account.
Last edited:
John did not write the book of Revelation. Jesus did. Not only that, John was taken to the future—to the Lord’s Day.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
- Revelation 1:1-3,10-11 (KJV)
Then how do you interpret all of the the first-person passages? Is every "I" and "Me" a reference to Jesus, or to John?
The 2nd paragraph clearly infers that it was John who was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, heard the voice, and was told to write in a book what he saw, and the Lord's day is Sunday, the first day of the week when all disciples gather together to break bread in remembrance of the Lord, no different than we do, or should do, today.
At Patmos, John was taken spiritually to the Lord’s Day by God. It is John who is bearing witness to all that he saw, but It is our Lord and Savior, JESUS CHRIST who has written and given this unsealed book as an awesome gift to His servants.
Petra
Last edited:
Revelation 1:8
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Revelation 2:8
8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
Revelation 2:18
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:
Jesus is God!
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Revelation 2:8
8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
Revelation 2:18
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:
Jesus is God!
Last edited:
I see this as a flat out contradiction. If John is "bearing witness" he is the author of the book, and it is not Christ "who had written and given" the book (as opposed to revealing the content that John wrote down)..
No. It is Jesus Christ who is the author of the book of Revelation—and of the whole Bible, which is the Word of God. John is writing down what he witnessed (saw). You might want to look up the word witness; it might help you out.
Petra
Last edited:
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Have you considered that it might be both?
Revelation has multiple things going on. There are short epistles, a record of several visions, and then there are explanations of the visions. The different parts may not have been written by the same person, or at the same time.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
The thing about John and even Paul and his alleged prison Epistles is, they were both imprisoned to stop them from ministering the Gospel.
John suffered the extreme in being banished to the Island of Patmos. It doesn't comport therefore that he would be granted writing materials to draft more teaching ngs related to the Gospel. Much less have those writings collected,preserved,and dispersed for public consumption.
The same with Paul. Especially so.
Had his guards been found to have allowed him writing materials,and to pass those to people who would disperse his letters in the service of Christ when he's been imprisoned so to stop that,his guards would have been tortured for disobeying orders and executed.
John suffered the extreme in being banished to the Island of Patmos. It doesn't comport therefore that he would be granted writing materials to draft more teaching ngs related to the Gospel. Much less have those writings collected,preserved,and dispersed for public consumption.
The same with Paul. Especially so.
Had his guards been found to have allowed him writing materials,and to pass those to people who would disperse his letters in the service of Christ when he's been imprisoned so to stop that,his guards would have been tortured for disobeying orders and executed.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
That's all logical, but it doesn't square with what we know of Roman history.
Paul was a Roman citizen and the Romans endowed their citizens a number of rights, even in custody. His "imprisonment" was more of a "house arrest" if you put it in modern terms.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
No, he was allowed to rent a private dwelling:
Act 28:16 And when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard: but Paul was suffered to dwell by himself with a soldier that kept him.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Bible Gem 1885 - Paul Under House Arrest (Acts 28:16-31) - Berean Insights
Paul in Rome When we arrived in Rome, Paul was permitted to have his own private lodging, though he was guarded by a soldier. Three days after Paul’s arrival, he called together the local Jewish leaders. He said to them, “Brothers, I was arrested in …
www.bereaninsights.org
Similar threads
