Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much in every way!
This will be a sign for you:
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1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much in every way!
Do you believe that Jews can sin as much as they want and they'll still be saved?
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Given that the term "Jew" means anyone of the twelve tribes colloquially, your point is moot.
The true Israel of God is all saved from each of the 12 tribes. Period. You have no authority or right to redefine the terms of Scripture and tamper with the prophecies God made to the nation of Israel alone.
Do you believe in the reality of the Trinity?
"Trinity" is never mentioned in the Bible.
Why would you believe it?
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Who is the nation of Israel to whom God makes a promise in Jeremiah 31? Jesus gives us a very clear indication in the parable of the landowner:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
We do not have to look too far to discover which nation, people group that is: it is the church, the church of Jesus Christ, made up of believing Jews and Gentiles, who are the seed of Abraham, the children of God, the real Israelites of the New Testament.
I Peter 2:9-10 writes to the church in these words: But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people ... which in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God.
Holy nation is the name given to Israel in Exodus 19:5-6. Peter now applies it to the church! The church is the holy nation, and since the church will never be destroyed, it is in her and not in the modern Jewish State of Israel, that the new Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is to be fulfilled. Titus 2:14 is also instructive: to the churches in Crete Paul attributes the title "peculiar people," a name taken from Exodus 19:5.
One more thing must be noticed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 The promise of the new Covenant is made to the house of Judah and the house of Israel. In this covenant with the house of Israel God will: put His law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be His people ... Moreover, God promises to the same house of Israel: I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more. How is this new covenant promise fulfilled, and to whom? The answer is found in Hebrews 8:6-13. This Covenant cannot be with the House of Israel as a separate entity from the Christian Church. The church of Christ, which enjoys the knowledge of God and forgiveness of sins, is the house of Israel.
Are there, then, no promises to the political entity of the Jewish State of Israel? The answer is an unequivocal NO. Excepting for the ones about their Judgment.
Will Israel as a political entity ever rebuild her temple and worship God as she did in the Old Testament? That is impossible under today’s conditions, but even if they did build a temple in Jerusalem and institute a priesthood, offer sacrifices and celebrate the feasts, it will be just another sign of Jewish apostasy from God. If the sacrifices of the wicked were abominable to God in the Old Testament, Proverbs 15:8, 21:27, how much more abominable would the recommencing of animal sacrifices by apostate Jewish Israel be in the future?
All the promises of God are in Christ. 2 Cor. 1:20 All the promises of God were made to Christ, as the Seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:14-16 Therefore, there can be no promise of any kind for any unbeliever outside of Jesus Christ.
The calling of the Jew, as the calling of the Gentile, is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ and join the church of Jew and Gentile, male and female, bond and free, where there is no difference, and as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy!" For they are the [Christian] Israel of God! Galatians 3:26-29
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You are being foolish. No one here has said they hate Israel. Not even close. How does someone pointing out that God judged them and punished them in the past mean that the person pointing that out hates them?
We are commanded to even love our enemies and so I do. I love everyone and I don't base it on one's nationality since God doesn't, either. God is not a respecter of persons and we shouldn't be, either. So, your claim that people with beliefs like me are filled with hatred for Israel is SLANDER and a flat out LIE.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Are Gentile believers not His people, also?
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
You are reading that into the chapter that time is not relative to God. You made the point that 1,000 years is never addressed in the NT outside of Revelation 20. Peter told you not to be ignorant that the Day of the Lord is as a thousand years.
In fact, if you go with that point, another thousand years on earth with Jesus in charge should not matter to you, because God's longsuffering allows for an additional millennium that you deny will happen.
You are just as guilty having doctrinal bias in your interpretation, reading ideas into the text. The bias that states God will not restore Israel, and that the Redeemer will not rule over Israel, no matter the length.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not. I'm basing that on knowing who God is. Do you know who God is? Do you know that He created space and time and therefore exists outside of time? To think that one day is exactly equivalent to 1,000 years to Him would suggest that He is confined within the realm of time but just in a different way than we are. That is not true. He exists outside of time. Therefore, one day is as one thousand years is as five thousand years to Him. No amount of time makes any difference to the God who created time and exists eternally outside of it. So, 2 Peter 3:8-9 has absolutely no relation to Revelation 20 whatsoever as you falsely believe since it does not have the same context as Revelation 20.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
I never said one day is equal to a thousand years. Why do you make stuff up?
The Day of the Lord is a figurative phrase pointing to a period of 1,000 years on the earth.
Where does Peter state the Day of the Lord is a literal 24 hour day?
The thousand years in Revelation 20 is the Day of the Lord. Context is about the Second Coming, and the return of Jesus to the earth as the Prince to come, or King of the earth.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You contradicted your first statement with your second one. How do you determine that the day of the Lord is 1,000 years if you don't believe one day is equal to a thousand years? You're not making any sense, as usual.
How long do you suppose it will take to burn up the heavens and the earth? More than 24 hours?
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Where does Revelation 20 say anything about Jesus coming to the earth?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The majority of the book is about what happens at the Second Coming, including before and after.
Peter is comparing our time on earth with God's time. The Day of the Lord was first mentioned in Genesis 2.
The baptism of fire may be over in a twinkling of an eye. All the works of man instantly consumed by God's consuming fire. Much shorter than any destruction humans can think of. How long did it take to bomb two cities in Japan?
Peter says the thousand years comes as a thief in the night, not that it would take the thief a thousand years to arrive.
In the same instant the church is raptured, the earth will be baptized by fire. But the restoration will not be until the final harvest is over. Satan may even get 42 months, so the baptism removes life as we know it, and then Satan has to heal this devastation to look like a lifesaver. But the restoration of Jesus will not start until the 7th Trumpet stops sounding.
Revelation 20 gives us the literal length of the Day of the Lord. The coming happens at the 6th Seal.
I'll ask you the question that covenantee won't answer. Are you Jew or Gentile?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What is this based on? Why was the book addressed to seven first century churches in the ancient Roman province of Asia if most of what is written in it supposedly only pertains to things that happen at or near the second coming and after it?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Did you bother finding out the context of what he was saying instead of just making assumptions? He wasn't saying God hated their souls. He is saying God hated their actions and took out His wrath on them.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Gentile. Why do you ask? I love all people, including all Jews, all Gentiles and even all of my enemies. I, like God, want everyone to repent and to be saved (Acts 17:30, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4-6). There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ's church. We are all one in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:26-29).
Genetically, I and you and everyone on the planet are both Jew and Gentile, because after thousands of years of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, Jewish DNA is ubiquitous throughout humanity, and Gentile DNA is ubiquitous throughout humanity.
But it matters not to God, because God is not a racist. Acts 10:34,35
He cannot be contorted into one, so you might as well stop trying.
Corroborated empirically by the Jewish community itself (identified today by culture and religion, not by genetics).
Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage
Demonstrated mathematically.
Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:
Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty
BY CARL ZIMMER
Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.
Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.
The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.
In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.
As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”
In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.
The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.
Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.
Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.
Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.
You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.
This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).
Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.
Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!
If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.
Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.
How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?
It matters not one whit.
Because God has only two covenant criteria.
Two spiritual genes.
Faith and obedience.
Abraham's Spiritual DNA.
And nothing else.
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