Jesus talked about hell more than anything else in the Bible. - Seriously?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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I'm just a Bible believer!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Which can only mean Hell Fire, forever and ever.
Beebster
Member
In other words, you have no idea what you're preaching about do you? Typical fundamentalist nonsense.
Why does the Bible upset you so? Jesus clearly warned us of the EVERLASTING FIRE! Your problem is with Him, not me.
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Beebster
Member
No my problem is with your doctrine.Why does the Bible upset you so? Jesus clearly warned us of the EVERLASTING FIRE!
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Your problem is with Him, not me.
aionios (g166) should never be translated "everlasting" or "eternal' or "ever" as in "forever and ever."
The term "forever and ever" is one found in fairy tales like those portrayed in Disney films.
aionios (g166) should be translated to the English word "eonian."
You made this statement in post #42:
Well then, do you believe this:
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)
What about this:
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, BUT to save the world. (John 12:47)
So tell me, is Jesus Christ going to save the world or is he going to fail because men with poor translations say he will fail?
Your doctrine contradicts.
I didn't Author the Bible. lol
You're a Greek expert. All of our Bibles are wrong and your opinions are right?
Of course I believe it. God sent Himself in the flesh as Jesus. He can do that.
Your opinions do not overrule our MANY English Bible translations! What are you credentials? None maybe?
Beebster
Member
You declared all of our Bibles to be wrong. Prove it, but not with your opinions. Jesus CLEARLY warned us of Hell Fire for unbelievers!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Hey, cut the guy some slack. Some folks just prefer their gatherings to be free of people of color. It's not like we have an amendment to our Constitution that prohibits that kind of thing.
What color is a snowflake?
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Will I? Who are you, the gatekeeper? I recall Jesus held the keys to death and hell, and released captives in Hades on his Resurrection. Protestants like yourself with no claim to authority on biblical interpretation nor authority to claim a monopoly on correct doctrine in Glass Houses should not throw stones. If you condemn your brothers, you will be condemned as you've condemned others. Rev 20 does not mention people, as the wicked (the hordes of Gog and Magog) who are already consumed by fire from heaven not thrown in the lake, those thrown in the lake are the three beasts who are not literal beasts or dragons - they are symbolic (apocalyptic) of false systems and institutions of worship. Hades, the land of the dead, is also cast in the lake.
First, all escape the punishments in Hades, even the wicked, when they are resurrect to stand to be judged before God and perhaps punished further. Let us suppose, Revelations, an Aramaic letter poorly translated into Greek, coded in apocalyptic terminology, that the people who worship, and received the mark of the beast, at a future judgement will then drink (to themselves) and be tormented "day and night" for '[ages of ages]', does ages of ages = infinity? Do you recognize how often measurements of time is relative in the Bible?
Jonah was in the belly of the fish 3 days and 3 nights (Jonah 1:17) yet in the earth with her bars was about Jonah forever, so forever = 3 days/3 nights (Jonah 2:6) The master bore his ear through with an aul, he shall serve him forever, so forever = a lifetime? (Ex 21:6) The temple "I have built (God) a house to dwell in forever" (1 Kings 8:13) "I heard thy prayer, I have hollowed this house thou hast built...it shall be there perpetually. (1 Ki 9:3) Solomon's temple only lasted 400 years, 400 years, so perpetually = 400 years? What of the broken everlasting covenant?
Every biblical instance of "everlasting" (olam) means "hidden-time", as in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance it's an amount of time that's "concealed, i.e. The vanishing point" so eternity = "time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; ancient (time), long (time). Thus the "olam" hills in Genesis 49:26; Habakkuk 3:6; Deuteronomy 33:15 is not an infinite range of hills, they had a beginning when they were created. Olam things are finite, as some things in the Bible are from "everlasting to everlasting" presumes two everlastings, one everlasting must have begun where a previous everlasting ended.
Infinity only exists in geometry and pagan Greek neo-platonic philosophy, and most false systems of man-made Protestant Christian institutions that inherited these Greek-infused doctrines unaware.
Beebster
Member
No I never said that; you came to that conclusion, I guess, based on your expertise in English.
Why would I try to prove something I didn’t say?
That is an unscriptural, unprovable opinion.
Jesus did not "CLEARLY [warn] us of Hell Fire for unbelievers!"
Jesus was hardly ever clear on anything he said.
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (Mat 13:11)
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. (Luk 8:10)
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. (Mat 13:36)
You’re welcome to try demonstrating just how “Jesus CLEARLY warned us of Hell Fire for unbelievers!,” because so far you CLEARLY haven’t.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I'm not arguing for the validity of eternal torment, but it is inaccurate to say that Jesus was hardly ever clear in His teaching.
The verses you, yourself quote indicate that Christ taught generally in parables so that the unconverted could not understand, but that He opened His mysteries to a great degree to His followers in heart. The Bible works much the same way today as is evident by the manifold testimony of studious doubters.
Folks need only to expect to have spiritual discernment in direct proportion to their willingness to believe that which they are taught of the Word.
John 7:17 — If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Hebrews 11:6 — But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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it seems you have not run into the effects of affirmative action yet, I have been subjected to this since the 1080's Where there is a winner there has to be a looser.If the win is unfair then the loss is unfair as well, I take it you have not looked at the book of Mormon yet. Now that is racist, not finding a safe space where you can be left in peace
Beebster
Member
Hey, I always wanted to meet Barney Fife; such a hoot!
Interestingly enough, I have a red-headed grandson named Andy. No it’s not quite Opie but his cousin was just born and they were deciding whether to name her Opal or not. My daughter says, “If you name her Opal I can call her ‘Opie’.”
They named her Opal.
Anyway, nice to meet you.
Would he say this if they were:
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 18:1-3)
And Christ always spoke in parables to the masses not “generally”:
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: (Mat 13:34)
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: (Mark 4:11)
Now I’m going to say this and it will probably rile some feathers, but even when Jesus explained his parables to his disciples he still spoke in parables.
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (John 6:73)
Peace, and say hi to Aunt Bea.
Interestingly enough, I have a red-headed grandson named Andy. No it’s not quite Opie but his cousin was just born and they were deciding whether to name her Opal or not. My daughter says, “If you name her Opal I can call her ‘Opie’.”
They named her Opal.
Anyway, nice to meet you.
That’s good to hear.
Okay, it’s obvious we disagree here.
Your premise here indicates that you believe Christ was also speaking to converted people as well. No one he spoke to was converted not even his followers. Christ never converted one person while he ministered here on earth.
Would he say this if they were:
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 18:1-3)
And Christ always spoke in parables to the masses not “generally”:
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: (Mat 13:34)
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: (Mark 4:11)
Now I’m going to say this and it will probably rile some feathers, but even when Jesus explained his parables to his disciples he still spoke in parables.
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (John 6:73)
Who is it that teaches them the Word?
Even that verse is not clear. And though it is true it certainly isn’t clear “as is evident by the manifold testimony of studious doubters.”
True, however where does our faith come from?
Peace, and say hi to Aunt Bea.
JW's TWIST the Hell of nearly every verse in the Bible, even their own NWT! Don't blame me.
So you believe Jesus now?
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
So much so that heLL has to be enlarged to accommodate the large crowds going there
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