The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[MA2444]

Crowns simply represent power and authority. They can also represent honor or reward.

They can also represent real Crowns!

 

[WPM]

I guess you could say I never graduated yet and sort of been a scholar my entire life. K-12 and when I got big enough to think for myself, I quit that school and eduated my self. Oh I went and got their GED certificate. I walked right in there and smoked that test. No prep classes or anything. Plus I had some technical training in Law Enforcement (I was alllmoosst a cop. No College and I used to regret that but have come to appeciate that in that I have not been conformed to this world but I have been transformed by the renewing of my mind, like the good book says. I never really stopped reading that off and on at least for most of my life. I graduated that law Enforcement training 3rd overall in a class of 30 or so.
I graduated with flying colors and they told me all I have to do now is to go down and get sworn in...but before I could do that, I accidently discovered that I had mechanical skills too and I knew there was lots more money in that than being a cop, or even a Detective. So (THANK GOD!) I went into Business for myself and learned what I didnt know about Business, the hard way....Do it. If you do good work, the money takes care of itself...and it worked out good. I was making 6 figures for quite a few years.

I learn something new every day.

Now that you know all about my Education, let's hear about yours? Judging from the hours you keep, you're retired, right?

It is time to actually bring some Scripture to the table that actually proves your doctrine. That is of more interest.

 

[MA2444]

LOL. You love to talk about yourself and boast of your IQ and achievements. I couldn't care less about all that. You seem to struggle with pride. It is time to actually bring some Scripture to the table that actually proves your doctrine. That is of more interest.

But you're having a bad day again. Maybe some (more!) will be posted later today or tomorrow?

 

[WPM]

But you're having a bad day again. Maybe some (more!) will be posted later today or tomorrow?

How about actually addressing Scripture. Is that too much to ask you?

 

[Douggg]

It is possible to ignore videos, links and charts. I skip over them. I look for biblical arguments. I used to completely ignore your posts. I am now trying to engage with you to see if you have Scripture. At least give us some credit. I believe you hide behind your charts when you have no Bible response.

What do you mean "hide behind" ? On this last chart I posted, for example, I showed the pertinent bible verses for...

the start of the 7 years - Daniel 9:27.
the tribulation of those days - Matthew 24:29
the 1290 days - Daniel 12:11
what the AoD is - Revelation 13:14-15

 

[WPM]

What do you mean "hide behind" ? On this last chart I posted, for example, I showed the pertinent bible verses for...

the start of the 7 years - Daniel 9:27.
the tribulation of those days - Matthew 24:29
the 1290 days - Daniel 12:11
what the AoD is - Revelation 13:14-15

View attachment 47887

I ignore your charts. Like SJ says, i think it is pride to admire and promote your charts and criticize the rest of us for not doing the same.

 

[WPM]

What do you mean "hide behind" ? On this last chart I posted, for example, I showed the pertinent bible verses for...

the start of the 7 years - Daniel 9:27.
the tribulation of those days - Matthew 24:29
the 1290 days - Daniel 12:11
what the AoD is - Revelation 13:14-15

View attachment 47887

I have showed you several times that the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24:21 was fulfilled in AD70. But you had no rebuttal. The argument still stands. You have obviously no response apart from your faulty charts.

 

[Douggg]

I have showed you several times that the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24:29 was fulfilled in AD70. But you had no rebuttal. The argument still stands. You have obviously no response apart from your faulty charts.

How could Matthew 24:29-30 have possibly been in 70 AD ? Does history record that all the tribes of the earth saw Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven in power and great glory?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Keraz]

What we all must take note of is scriptures like 1 Corinthians 3:18-20.....the wise must become a fool to become truly wise......
And in Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, [with false theories and doctrines] then you will stay confused... For the Lord has poured on you a Spirit of deep stupor and the Prophesies become like a sealed Book to you.
Also in Matthew 11:25, Jesus said; The Prophesies will be hidden from those who consider themselves to have sussed what God has planned for our future.

Therefore is sensible for us to not be too positive and forceful of our beliefs, either taught to us or discerned from our studies.
Obviously; there will be some who will find out, to their chagrin; how wrong they were. Most likely, all of us!

I can't resist from saying; it will be those whose beliefs necessitate a change of policy for God, who will be found in error and their 'works' burned up.
I the Lord do not change - Malachi 3:7 Numbers 23:10, Hebrews 13:6
God allowed His faithful Christian people to be martyred and as Revelation 20:4 plainly says: that policy continues until Jesus Returns.

 

[Douggg]

I ignore your charts. Like SJ says, i think it is pride to admire and promote your charts and criticize the rest of us for not doing the same.

I have not said anything prideful about my charts.

 

[Keraz]

I have showed you several times that the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24:29 was fulfilled in AD70

What happened in the first Century, bears no resemblance to what is Prophesied for the time before Jesus Returns.
A categorical statement like this is foolishness, as there is still time for the graphically Prophesied end time things of Revelation and throughout the Bible to take place.

 

[Keraz]

I have not said anything prideful about my charts.

But you repeatedly post them, despite being asked not to in my threads and in every opportunity.
Just the shuffling and mis-placement of the Sixth Seal, is enough to rubbish your entire paradigm.

 

[MA2444]

I ignore your charts. Like SJ says, i think it is pride to admire and promote your charts and criticize the rest of us for not doing the same.

You just ignored his scripture too! I thought that's what you were asking for? Stick to scripture. You wouldnt even pick it up?

He posted it for you pastor sir. Will you address the scripture or not, wait two posts then say he has no scripture? That aint no Pastor! You dont sound like a pastor. Engage the scripture will you?

Maybe I'll join in. Me and him dont agree on all things he writes but we do agree on some things. You cant ethically as a pastor ignore his scriptures!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 24:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Context is important, Doug. The context there is of great tribulation in Judea and Jerusalem as the parallel passage here makes even more clear:

Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

There is simply no indication here of wrath against all people on the face of the whole earth, as Luke 21:34-36 talks about. So, Matthew 24:15-22 (Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24a) have to do with local tribulation that occurred in Judea and Jerusalem in 70 AD and Luke 21:34-36 has to do with the global wrath that will come down upon all unbelievers on the earth when Jesus returns, just as scripture also teaches in passages like 1 Thess 4:13-5:11, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Revelation 19:17-18.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-24-22/

How do you know that there is a chart in my post, if you don't see it ?

LOL. Can I not recognize that a chart is there without looking closely at it? Of course I can. You are funny, Doug.

Do you suddenly put a hand over your eyes ?

Am I somehow required to look at it closely? LOL. Come on, Doug.

I am not going to stop posting my charts, just because you "say" you don't look at my charts. You don't have charts, nor include the end times time frames in your posts, because you cannot fit those together.

Yes, I am well aware that you will continue posting your useless charts whether anyone wants you to or not.

Please stop with the inflaming remarks. I have not said anything prideful about my charts.

Who are you trying to kid, Doug? Do you really need to post them as often as you do? Surely not. You know you are prideful about them, but won't admit it. It's very obvious.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You obviously have something to hide. So, I will keep asking.



You are all over the place. You seem to be making it up as you go. Quote your evidence and then exegete. This referencing without explaining it seems to be a smokescreen to conceal.

It's like we're trying to talk to kids who are on recess and have no interest in doing anything but playing games. These children are so incredibly immature, that it truly boggles my mind. Some of them have been Christians for a long time now and they are still only "babes in Christ" who can only sip on milk and are not near ready for solid food. It's very sad to see.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How could Matthew 24:29-30 have possibly been in 70 AD ? Does history record that all the tribes of the earth saw Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven in power and great glory?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I know that is not what he believes, so he must have put Matthew 24:29 by mistake instead of Matthew 24:21. Have you really never seen him give his understanding of Matthew 24:29-31? You know he is post-trib, right? That passage is one reason why. So, I know he must have meant Matthew 24:21.

 

[The Light]

Is he a flat earther?! I didnt know that! I can blow flat earth theory out of the water even without scripture!

(It does take common sense.) But a 10 year old could understand it.

Well he keeps telling me to prove a 7 year tribulation. I don't believe in a 7 year tribulation. So when he does that I ask him to prove his flat earth theory. I keep thinking that he will get the message but I'm pretty sure his nickname is Christmas as he is slow as Christmas

 

[The Light]

Crowns simply represent power and authority. They can also represent honor or reward.

When do we get those crowns?

 

[Douggg]

But you repeatedly post them, despite being asked not to in my threads and in every opportunity.
Just the shuffling and mis-placement of the Sixth Seal, is enough to rubbish your entire paradigm.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, from Matthew 24:30a near the very end of the Great Tribulaton.

 

[Douggg]

Who are you trying to kid, Doug? Do you really need to post them as often as you do? Surely not. You know you are prideful about them, but won't admit it. It's very obvious.

I have said nothing prideful about my charts. You are making false accusations. Please stop with the inflammatory rhetoric.

There is nothing in the forum rules preventing you (or anyone else) from creating timeline charts and inserting them into posts.