Spiritual Warfare
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Are you OK with the ECF? [Early church fathers?] This is a new one to me! I was going to interject on your other comments to @Hepzibah but would rather forbear.
Philippians 3:12-14 (Greek Text and English Translation)
Greek Text:
12. οὐχ ὅτι ἤδη ἔλαβον ἢ ἤδη τετελείωμαι, διώκω δὲ εἰ καὶ καταλάβω, ἐφ’ ᾧ καὶ κατελήμφθην ὑπὸ Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ.
13. ἀδελφοί, ἐγὼ ἐμαυτὸν οὐ λογίζομαι κατειληφέναι· ἓν δέ, τὰ μὲν ὀπίσω ἐπιλανθανόμενος τοῖς δὲ ἔμπροσθεν ἐπεκτεινόμενος,
14. κατὰ σκοπὸν διώκω εἰς τὸ βραβεῖον τῆς ἄνω κλήσεως τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ.
English Translation:
12. "Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own."
13. "Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,"
14. "I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
Dissection of Key Greek Words and Morphology
Verse 12
οὐχ (ouch) - "Not"
This is a negation particle used to negate the statement that follows.
ὅτι (hoti) - "that"
Conjunction used to introduce a reason or explanation.
ἤδη (ēdē) - "already"
Adverb indicating a completed action at the present time.
ἔλαβον (elabon)
Verb, Aorist, Active, Indicative, 1st Person Singular of λαμβάνω (lambanō) - "I received" or "I have obtained"
Indicates a past action without reference to its duration.
ἢ (ē) - "or"
Coordinating conjunction.
ἤδη (ēdē) - "already" (repeated for emphasis)
Adverb indicating a completed action at the present time.
τετελείωμαι (teteleiwmai)
Verb, Perfect, Passive, Indicative, 1st Person Singular of τελειόω (teleioō) - "I am perfected" or "I have been made perfect"
The perfect tense indicates a completed action with ongoing results. The passive voice indicates that the subject is the recipient of the action.
διώκω (diōkō)
Verb, Present, Active, Indicative, 1st Person Singular - "I press on" or "I pursue"
The present tense indicates continuous or habitual action.
εἰ καὶ (ei kai)
"if also" or "if indeed"
Conditional particle combined with conjunction.
καταλάβω (katalabō)
Verb, Aorist, Active, Subjunctive, 1st Person Singular of καταλαμβάνω (katalambanō) - "I may lay hold of" or "I may apprehend"
The aorist subjunctive indicates a potential action that is contingent on certain conditions.
ἐφ’ ᾧ (eph' hō)
"because" or "for which reason"
Preposition with relative pronoun indicating purpose or reason.
καὶ (kai)
"also" or "even"
Conjunction.
κατελήμφθην (katelēmphthēn)
Verb, Aorist, Passive, Indicative, 1st Person Singular of καταλαμβάνω (katalambanō) - "I was apprehended" or "I was laid hold of"
Indicates a past action done to the subject.
ὑπὸ (hypo)
"by"
Preposition used with the genitive case to indicate agency.
Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ (Christou Iēsou)
"Christ Jesus"
The genitive case indicating possession or agency.
Verse 13
ἀδελφοί (adelphoi)
"Brothers"
Nominative, plural, vocative case indicating direct address.
ἐγὼ (egō)
"I"
Pronoun, nominative, first person singular.
ἐμαυτὸν (emauton)
"myself"
Pronoun, accusative, first person singular reflexive.
οὐ (ou)
"not"
Negation particle.
λογίζομαι (logizomai)
Verb, Present, Middle/Passive, Indicative, 1st Person Singular - "I consider" or "I reckon"
The present tense indicates continuous or habitual action. The middle voice indicates the subject acting with respect to itself.
κατειληφέναι (kateilēphenai)
Verb, Perfect, Active, Infinitive of καταλαμβάνω (katalambanō) - "to have laid hold of" or "to have apprehended"
Indicates a completed action with ongoing results.
ἓν (hen)
"one thing"
Neuter, singular, nominative case.
δέ (de)
"but"
Conjunction indicating contrast.
τὰ (ta)
"the things"
Neuter, plural, accusative case, definite article.
μὲν (men)
"indeed"
Particle often used to emphasize what follows.
ὀπίσω (opisō)
"behind"
Adverb indicating direction.
ἐπιλανθανόμενος (epilanthanomai)
Verb, Present, Middle/Passive, Participle, Nominative, Masculine, Singular of ἐπιλανθάνομαι (epilanthanomai) - "forgetting"
Indicates continuous action and is used to describe the subject.
τοῖς (tois)
"the things"
Neuter, plural, dative case, definite article.
δὲ (de)
"but"
Conjunction indicating contrast.
ἔμπροσθεν (emprosthen)
"ahead"
Adverb indicating direction.
ἐπεκτεινόμενος (epekteinomenos)
Verb, Present, Middle/Passive, Participle, Nominative, Masculine, Singular of ἐπεκτείνομαι (epekteinomai) - "straining forward"
Indicates continuous action and is used to describe the subject.
Verse 14
κατὰ σκοπὸν (kata skopon)
"toward the goal"
Preposition with accusative noun indicating direction or purpose.
διώκω (diōkō)
Verb, Present, Active, Indicative, 1st Person Singular - "I press on" or "I pursue"
The present tense indicates continuous or habitual action.
εἰς τὸ βραβεῖον (eis to brabeion)
"for the prize"
Preposition with accusative article and noun indicating purpose or direction.
τῆς ἄνω κλήσεως (tēs anō klēseōs)
"of the upward call"
Genitive article and noun indicating possession or source.
τοῦ Θεοῦ (tou Theou)
"of God"
Genitive case indicating possession or source.
ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ (en Christō Iēsou)
"in Christ Jesus"
Preposition with dative article and noun indicating location or instrumentality.
Summary:
Paul’s Humility and Aspiration: Paul emphasizes that he has not yet attained perfection or fully comprehended his spiritual goal. He uses the aorist and perfect tenses to indicate actions that he has not completed, emphasizing his ongoing pursuit of Christ-like maturity.
Continuous Effort: The present tense verbs (διώκω, λογίζομαι, ἐπιλανθανόμενος, ἐπεκτεινόμενος) highlight Paul’s continuous and active effort in his spiritual journey.
I'll catch up with you giants having these wonderful extraordinary experiences but for now I'll go by what Paul wrote not boasting in any of these but in Christ Jesus and the crucified and risen Messiah.
Shalom, have a blessed day-I need to stay off this thread.
J.
Paul is speaking here of what he knew was ahead - his martyrdom. The early church longed for this as the high calling. This is the perfection Paul speaks of. He goes on to say that those who are perfect - indeed it is true - should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well. 16Nevertheless, we must live up to what we have already attained. can go through this scripture with you if you like but you said you will stay away.
You are taking these texts out of context.
Context of Philippians 3:12-14
Historical Context:
Authorship: The Apostle Paul is traditionally understood to be the author of the Epistle to the Philippians. The letter was likely written during his imprisonment, possibly in Rome, around A.D. 60-62.
Audience: The letter is addressed to the Christian community in Philippi, a Roman colony in Macedonia. This community was among the first European converts to Christianity, and Paul had a deep affection for them, as reflected in the warm and personal tone of the letter.
Literary Context:
Chapter Overview: Philippians 3 deals with several themes, including Paul’s warnings against false teachers (often identified as Judaizers), his reflections on his own past as a zealous Pharisee, and his current focus on knowing Christ and gaining the resurrection from the dead.
Verses Leading Up to 3:12-14: In the preceding verses (Philippians 3:1-11), Paul contrasts his previous confidence in the flesh (his Jewish credentials and accomplishments) with his new identity in Christ. He considers his former gains as loss compared to the surpassing worth of knowing Christ and attaining the resurrection.
Philippians 3:12-14 (ESV):
"Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own."
"Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,"
"I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
Exegetical Breakdown:
Verse 12:
"Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect"
οὐχ ὅτι ἤδη ἔλαβον ἢ ἤδη τετελείωμαι: Paul acknowledges that he has not yet fully achieved his spiritual goal or reached perfection. The Greek verbs "ἔλαβον" (elabon) and "τετελείωμαι" (teteleiwmai) indicate actions not yet completed. The perfect tense of "τετελείωμαι" (perfect passive indicative) underscores that perfection is an ongoing process not yet fully realized.
"but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own"
διώκω δὲ εἰ καὶ καταλάβω, ἐφ’ ᾧ καὶ κατελήμφθην ὑπὸ Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ: Paul uses the present tense verb "διώκω" (diōkō), meaning "I press on" or "I pursue," indicating continuous, active effort. The aorist subjunctive "καταλάβω" (katalabō) expresses a contingent action, his goal to grasp what he has not yet fully attained. He presses on because "Christ Jesus has made me his own" (κατελήμφθην, katelēmphthēn), using the aorist passive indicative to show that this was an action completed by Christ in the past.
Verse 13:
"Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own"
ἀδελφοί, ἐγὼ ἐμαυτὸν οὐ λογίζομαι κατειληφέναι: Paul addresses the Philippians affectionately as "brothers" (ἀδελφοί, adelphoi), stressing that he does not consider himself to have fully grasped or apprehended (κατειληφέναι, kateilēphenai, perfect active infinitive) the ultimate goal.
"But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead"
ἓν δέ, τὰ μὲν ὀπίσω ἐπιλανθανόμενος τοῖς δὲ ἔμπροσθεν ἐπεκτεινόμενος: Paul’s singular focus (ἓν, hen) is contrasted with his disregard for the past (τὰ μὲν ὀπίσω, ta men opisō, "the things behind") and his active effort towards the future (τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν, tois emprosthen, "the things ahead"). The present participles "ἐπιλανθανόμενος" (epilanthanomenos, "forgetting") and "ἐπεκτεινόμενος" (epekteinomenos, "straining forward") emphasize ongoing, continuous actions.
Verse 14:
"I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus"
κατὰ σκοπὸν διώκω εἰς τὸ βραβεῖον τῆς ἄνω κλήσεως τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ: Paul repeats the verb "διώκω" (diōkō), highlighting his relentless pursuit "toward the goal" (κατὰ σκοπὸν, kata skopon) for "the prize" (εἰς τὸ βραβεῖον, eis to brabeion). This prize is defined as "the upward call of God in Christ Jesus" (τῆς ἄνω κλήσεως τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ). The use of "ἄνω" (anō) suggests a heavenly or divine calling, emphasizing the spiritual and eternal nature of the goal.
Theological Implications:
1. Sanctification as a Process:
Paul’s language underscores the ongoing nature of sanctification. He acknowledges that he has not yet reached perfection, aligning with the idea that sanctification is both instantaneous (a believer is sanctified in Christ) and progressive (a believer grows in holiness over time).
2. Focus on Christ:
The ultimate goal for Paul is to fully know and be united with Christ. This pursuit shapes his life and ministry, demonstrating a Christ-centered focus that prioritizes eternal rewards over earthly accomplishments.
3. Perseverance:
Paul’s metaphor of pressing on and straining forward conveys the need for perseverance in the Christian life. The Christian journey involves continuous effort and determination, motivated by the hope of the upward call of God.
Practical Application:
1. Humility in the Christian Walk:
Like Paul, believers are encouraged to recognize their ongoing need for growth and avoid complacency. Humility involves acknowledging that we have not yet fully attained the goal of perfect Christ-likeness.
2. Active Pursuit of Holiness:
Believers are called to actively pursue spiritual maturity, continually seeking to grow in their relationship with Christ. This involves leaving behind past failures and successes, focusing on the present journey towards the future prize.
3. Eternal Perspective:
Keeping an eternal perspective helps believers prioritize their goals and efforts. The pursuit of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus motivates Christians to live with eternity in mind, shaping their values and actions.
Summary:
Philippians 3:12-14 reflects Paul’s humble acknowledgment of his need for continuous spiritual growth and his unwavering commitment to pursuing Christ. Through a detailed examination of the Greek text, we see the emphasis on ongoing effort, humility, and a focus on the eternal prize. This passage encourages believers to persevere in their faith journey, actively seeking to grow in holiness and maintain a Christ-centered perspective.
Guess you will disagree on the context.
J.
I've explored their writings enough to know to stick to the Bible as my first source. If someone writes good thoughts that agree with Scripture, all well and good, and we can gain from that, whether that be someone writing on this forum, or on scrolls in the 3rd century.
That's how I read this.
What God has done with me has been remedial, I think. I mean, I really think that strongly. That if I were better He wouldn't have needed to do that.
No need to go anywhere, I remain subject to Scripture, and I appreciate your helping me to know what it says.
Much love!
I don't understand them that way.
"There remains no more sacrifice", this means once you've learned about Jesus, you can't go back to offering sheep, and goats, and bulls, as if Jesus' blood were not better than animal blood.
"No more" here is a key word, the series of sacrifices ends. No more, of a series. Used in the same way a number of other places in the NT.
If you want to look at particular verses, post them for me, and we can look at them.
Much love!
As I recall the daily and yearly sacrifices were to cover the unintentional sins of the people. When they broke the commandments, they were to bring an animal to offer.
I'd love to know more about Job, and his prior relationship with God, what revelation he had. The only information we have is in Job's words at the end, I'd heard of you, but now I see you, I'm going to sit in ashes now!
It was the ongoing daily sacrifice for every Israelite, contrasted to Jesus Who lives forever to intercede on our behalf.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
exactly epi . and what is sin , UNBELIEF IS pard as well as anything contrary to GOD .
the devil be very slick epi . DO you KNOW what his tactic is
GET THEM to BELEIVE that they dont NEED TO BELEIVE something GOD said .
DO ya KNOW ANYONE LIKE THAT epi .
JESUS is GOD . not you , not me , not man .
NOW JESUS SPOKE of the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE
HE SPOKE OF MANY THINGS . i suggest WE TAKE EVERYTHING HE SAID as TRUTH . well CAUSE IT IS TRUTH .
AND I suggest we take his every word as though it were the word of GOD , cause guess what EPI , IT IS .
JESUS SPOKE often and even warned often about what would occur to those who BELEIVED NOT .
but satan likes to say , HAS JESUS , has GOD REALLY said
then twists stuff in order to cause us to BELIEVE HIM and nOT WHAT GOD OR HIS CHRIST SAID .
DO you KNOW anyone like that . CAUSE I SURE DO .
Like i said and say often , TIME TO PREACH and REMIND of the DIRE NEED TO FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
and , and to teach ALL THINGS HE DID teach and say . as well as the apostels
who , i might add , often shook the dust off thier feet against anyone who would not BELEIVE ON JESUS AS THE CHRIST .
You been exposed epi . you can talk all day , BUT TILL YOU understand of the DIRE NEED
to BELIEVE and to teach the lost TO BELEIVE , its all gonna be in vain epi . all of it .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I said ye shall die in your sins for if you BELEIVE NOT that I AM HE , you gonna DIE in your sins .
How come JESUS often spoke of the dire need to beleive
and even warned them who had not yet repented on him to beleive ON THE DIRE damnation that awaited them .
THEN in acts we see the apostels doing the same
THEN in the letters to the churches we see the same thing
and yet today the mantra has become , YE DONT REALLY HAVE TO BELEIVE . rather odd ME THINKS .
But again what DID JOHN say
HE who denies that JESUS IS THE CHRIST , is anti christ . the devil sure loves
to cause folks to not believe something GOD said . HE DID it at the tree
HE DOING IT STILL today .
HAS JESUS really said , nay nay YE dont have to beleive sayeth the serpent ..............BUT JESUS SAID WE DID .
which one we gonna heed . exactly . JESUS THE CHRIST . that is WHO THE BORN AGAIN HEED and not men who twist crap .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I gots a question that will be followed by a friendly BUT needful reminder to many these days .
You asked are you okay with the early church fathers .
NOT IF ANY OF THEM CONTRADICTS what the FIRST ONES LEFT US .
and watch out cause many of them do . i smells concepts of the R doulbe C on some of them cats .
IN other words , if any man , even in pauls days or later
cometh and writes something or says something that is contrary
to what was left to us in said bible , THIS gringo wont heed them peroid .
and yet many do . they act as though if something is old it must be right .
BUT believe you me , AND I THINK YA DO , even the apostels had false ones amongst them
and they too could write and teach stuff wrong . THUS guess what BOOK i am staying in , THE BEAUTIFUL AND HOLY BIBLE .
as i am sure you do agree with that . EVERYTHING and EVERYONE gonna be tested against that book too .
Even an angel , even a talking donkey
any man or anyone . and if they do come and offer up something contrary to the written truth
You can bet from you bottom to your top dollar , THIS MAN WONT HEED A LICK of what THEY SAY either .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The LORD has this lamb as he do every lamb . ONE GOD , ONE LORD , ONE CHRIST , ONE SPIRIT and one book called the bible .
I made my choice and i pray to GOD that many do become as fully persauded as have i , and that by grace ,
that if any , a tree , a donkey , an angel or anyone cometh
and preaches contrary to what was left to us in the bible , to that CHRIST , THAT GOD , that GOSPEL
guess who i wont be heeding , A SINGLE ONE OF THEM . it is BIBLE TIME in the building my dear dear friends .
TIME we learn that JESUS , that doctrine for ourselves .
cause many sure seem to love to preach another jesus and another gospel , and believe you me it wont be saving squat either .
I made my choice and i pray to GOD that many do become as fully persauded as have i , and that by grace ,
that if any , a tree , a donkey , an angel or anyone cometh
and preaches contrary to what was left to us in the bible , to that CHRIST , THAT GOD , that GOSPEL
guess who i wont be heeding , A SINGLE ONE OF THEM . it is BIBLE TIME in the building my dear dear friends .
TIME we learn that JESUS , that doctrine for ourselves .
cause many sure seem to love to preach another jesus and another gospel , and believe you me it wont be saving squat either .
Correct you are brother--the Bible is our primary book and concur with your powerful post here.
Shalom
Johann.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope you of all here don't doubt me brother--all for God's glory and honor and of our Lord Christ Jesus and sealed with the Holy Spirit UNTIL---?
No room for boasting and pride and intellectual prowess.
Your brother in Christ
J.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Truth is i trust in no man , not even my own self and my own abilities .
But i sure dont think you to be false my friend , nor am i .
And we sure do need to always look out the one for the other .
cause there is truly no man who is infallible . even peter and barnabas , great leaders got caught up in a dissumulation .
The flesh of man cannot be trusted . BUT GOD , HIS CHRIST , HIS SPIRIT , HIS EVERY WORD , what was left to us in the scrips ,
THAT CAN BE FULLY TRUSTED IN MY FRIEND .
OH i dont think you are false at all . not at all . but still we must look out for one the other in all matters .
Well said, yet again dear brother and glad to see you are active again and on fire for the Messiah!
There will be a separation between the fake and the real. So yes, not everyone who calls on Christ will make it. Those who don't want to understand this will go the way of the foolish virgins. Also, the end times deception is so great, that even the elect may be deceived. The passage that says to fight the good fight of faith wasn't said for nothing.
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