This will be a sign for you:
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You say Jesus is coming to fight for Israel and Paul said He is coming to fight for Christians (2 Thess 1:6-10). Who should I believe, you or Paul? I will pick Paul every time. Paul had a far better understanding of OT prophecies than you did. We should accept his understanding of them.
Perhaps Judaism is more appealing to you than Christianity? Do you own a New Testament? Who are Jesus's people?
I don't hate anyone. I'm a Christian.
It's called Christianity. Guess Who said this:
Luke 6:27
Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.
And all the Israel wannabees in the world won't remove them!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That is talking about Spiritual Israel, but you obviously think it's talking about national Israel. I asked you who are Jesus's people? So, your answer is national Israel then? Is that what Paul taught? Do you even care what Paul taught? You did quote him once, but you don't even agree with what he taught.
Since you are confused about who are Jesus's people, let me show you:
Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Luke 6:27
Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
Why are you full of HATE?
They're Christ's enemies. They hate Him.
You'd better exhume and lecture Paul. He didn't share your adoration.
1 Thessalonians 2
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
That does not say Paul hates Israel. Try again. There is no excuse for your hatred!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I already have and you ignored it. Romans 9:6-8, which is a passage that you would clearly rather not give any careful thought about.
Here is another passage that refers to Spiritual Israel as "the Israel of God".
Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
What Paul indicated here is that physical things are not what matters. Whether someone is a Jew who has been circumcised or a Gentile who has not means nothing, as he also said in other verses. Then he said "what counts is the new creation." which refers to us as Christians being made new creations by way of God's Holy Spirit cleansing us and washing away our sins and leading us towards righteousness. And then Paul says "Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.". All who follow what rule? The rule that says what matters is being spiritually made a new creation rather than anything physical like circumcision or what nationality you are. And then he indicates those who follow that rule are "the Israel of God". In verse 16 it should be understood as him saying "Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, that is, the Israel of God.".
And then there is this as well:
Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Were Gentiles brought near to the nation of Israel and made citizens of the nation of Israel by the blood of Christ? Is that what Paul is saying here? Clearly not! No, what he was saying here is that the blood of Christ brought Gentiles who were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise" resulting in them being "without hope and without God in the world" near to Israel, no longer foreigners to the covenants of the promise, no longer without hope and no longer without God in the world.
So, which Israel did Gentile believers become citizens of after formerly not being citizens of it? Spiritual Israel, of course. Obviously not national Israel. That's why Paul later said this:
Ephesians 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
Paul clearly taught there in Ephesians 2 that Gentiles were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel" but now "you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people". Gentile believers are not fellow citizens of national Israel, so what other Israel did the blood of Christ make us part of except for Spiritual Israel (the Israel of God)?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me here? I showed you a different Israel from national Israel and it is spiritual in nature. Is that not enough for you? I don't care what you call it. Paul called it "the Israel of God", so let's go with that. I showed you that. So, please read my post #52, stop being a coward, and address what I said there, please. You should not fight it when you are being shown things that you probably have never thought about before. Are you teachable?
I'd rather be accused of loving the wrong people than your HATE filled life. Why aren't you in Israel? Why won't you answer?
IOW, you can't quote "Spiritual Israel" in the Bible but you're obsessed with it.
I think you already are "in the land of antichrist". Your own HATE filled life.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Wow, you are being very dishonest and cowardly here. Again, I don't care what anyone calls it. You don't like the term "Spiritual Israel". Fine. I'm saying that scripture teaches about a spiritual "Israel of God" that is a different entity than national Israel. I quoted Galatians 6:16 and I showed where it is talked about in Romans 9:6-8 and Ephesians 2:11-22 as well. So, can you stop dodging my points and address what I said in post #52, please?
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