This will be a sign for you:

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,794
4,473
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
True but He sure will FIGHT for Israel!

Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
Do you not care if your interpretation of OT prophecies agrees with what is taught in the NT?

2 Thess 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

This passage says Jesus will fight for us! For Christians! For Spiritual Israel! Let the NT authors interpret the OT for you. It's much easier that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
6,393
2,728
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
True but He sure will FIGHT for Israel!

Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
He won't fight for antichrist.

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you not care if your interpretation of OT prophecies agrees with what is taught in the NT?

2 Thess 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

This passage says Jesus will fight for us! For Christians! For Spiritual Israel! Let the NT authors interpret the OT for you. It's much easier that way.
It doesn't say Spiritual Israel. It says ISRAEL! You ain't Israel. Why aren't you in Israel, the Land of the Bible?
He won't fight for antichrist.
True, He will fight for Israel.
1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Irony?
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
6,393
2,728
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Romans 11:26-27
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

Amen Jesus!
Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
Luke 1:68
68 "Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people,
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
6,393
2,728
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Why do you HATE Israel like the Devil?
Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Who did Jesus hate?
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Who did Jesus hate?
He wasn't referring to all of Israel by any stretch of your imagination. Why do you HATE Israel?
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,794
4,473
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Romans 11:26-27
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

Amen Jesus!
Your dispensational blindness is preventing you from seeing that the new covenant, the only covenant by which sins can be taken away, was already put into affect long ago!

Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Has the Deliverer not already come out of Zion to turn away ungodliness from Jacob? He sure did!

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

In Romans 11:26-27, Paul was not giving a new prophecy, he was referencing an OT prophecy from Isaiah 59:20-21. In Acts 3:24-26, Peter indicated that "all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days" which were the days when Jesus died for their sins (and the sins of the Gentiles as well) and rose again from the dead. So, those prophets include Isaiah. Peter said that Samuel and the prophets who came after him, like Isaiah, foretold the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that would result in the Deliverer/Redeemer coming to turn away ungodliness from Jacob and that is exactly what He did, according to Peter! What more does He need to do for them than what He has already done? Nothing! He said "It is finished."!

So, with all this in mind, Paul had to be speaking of Spiritual Israel and not national Israel when he indicated that all Israel would be saved in the manner prophesied in Isaiah 59:20-21. It can only be said of Spiritual Israel that all who are part of it are saved, not national Israel. If you understood Romans 9:6-8 properly then you would likely understand Romans 11:26-27 properly as well.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,794
4,473
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
He wasn't referring to all of Israel by any stretch of your imagination. Why do you HATE Israel?
Where did he say that? Nowhere. Are you paranoid? You are seeing things that aren't being said. What he quoted obviously only referred to unbelieving Israelites and not believers.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your dispensational blindness is preventing you from seeing that the new covenant, the only covenant by which sins can be taken away, was already put into affect long ago!

Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Has the Deliverer not already come out of Zion to turn away ungodliness from Jacob? He sure did!

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

In Romans 11:26-27, Paul was not giving a new prophecy, he was referencing an OT prophecy from Isaiah 59:20-21. In Acts 3:24-26, Peter indicated that "all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days" which were the days when Jesus died for their sins (and the sins of the Gentiles as well) and rose again from the dead. So, those prophets include Isaiah. Peter said that Samuel and the prophets who came after him, like Isaiah, foretold the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that would result in the Deliverer/Redeemer coming to turn away ungodliness from Jacob and that is exactly what He did, according to Peter! What more does He need to do for them than what He has already done? Nothing! He said "It is finished."!

So, with all this in mind, Paul had to be speaking of Spiritual Israel and not national Israel when he indicated that all Israel would be saved in the manner prophesied in Isaiah 59:20-21. It can only be said of Spiritual Israel that all who are part of it are saved, not national Israel. If you understood Romans 9:6-8 properly then you would likely understand Romans 11:26-27 properly as well.
Why aren't you in Israel where Jesus will return to FIGHT for Israel?
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where did he say that? Nowhere. Are you paranoid? You are seeing things that aren't being said. What he quoted obviously only referred to unbelieving Israelites and not believers.
Many Jews believed in Jesus. Read the NT. Why do YOU hate Israel?
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,794
4,473
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It doesn't say Spiritual Israel. It says ISRAEL! You ain't Israel. Why aren't you in Israel, the Land of the Bible?
Are you afraid to address what I showed you from 2 Thess 1:6-10? Who is Jesus fighting for there? You are not willing to be honest about ALL scripture. You have cherry picked the scripturess that you THINK support your view while ignoring many other scriptures.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,794
4,473
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many Jews believed in Jesus. Read the NT. Why do YOU hate Israel?
Did I say otherwise? No, I absolutely did not. You are coming across as very paranoid here. Are you actually reading what we're saying? Talk to us instead of your straw man.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you afraid to address what I showed you from 2 Thess 1:6-10? Who is Jesus fighting for there? You are not willing to be honest about ALL scripture. You have cherry picked the scripturess that you THINK support your view while ignoring many other scriptures.
Such irony. Why aren't you in the Land of the Bible? It's called Israel. They're Home to stay and all the wannabees in the world can't move them out!