A God of Hate

[Riven]

Would you?

The Apostles lived the story and wrote letters to others. They died for what they new was a real historical event, not a fiction story they created in their minds. Some of the earliest Christians saw exactly what the Apostles themselves saw, and willing died for the truth. Others didn’t see what the Apostles saw but believed what they read and followed their example.

Would you die for a work of fiction that you believed to true? (At best, fiction is a mix of truth and fantasy.) Would you die for a work of fiction which you knew to be false? Would you die for something that you lived, experienced and knew without a doubt was true?

If I believed it in my heart it to be the truth, then yes, I would die for it. I would not knowingly die for something I didn't believe to be the truth. That being said, people martyr themselves fairly often in the Islamic community. What they believe in is false, but they don't see it that way. So, it is entirely possible to give up your life for an idea, or set of ideas, that isn't true.

Yes. Words are spirit. He speaks to me in spirit. Normally, that’s when I’m reading what he says in scripture.

What does that mean, exactly?

It’s not just me talking.

If we put a camera in the room and observed you praying, it would appear as if you're talking to someone who's not there.

 

[Matthias]

If I believed it in my heart it to be the truth, then yes, I would die for it. I would not knowingly die for something I didn't believe to be the truth.

The same is true of Jesus, the Apostles and other disciples in the early Church.

That being said, people martyr themselves fairly often in the Islamic community.

Jesus, the Apostles and the earliest of his disciples are in the Jewish community.

What they believe in is false, but they don't see it that way. So, it is entirely possible to give up your life for an idea, or set of ideas, that isn't true.

Yes.

What does that mean, exactly?

How do you know that I’m talking to you? Is it not from reading my written words?

There is a close connection in scripture between mind and spirit. My words convey to you my mind, my spirit.

Jesus said that his words are spirit and life. His words are the expression of the mind of God and they are life-giving if heard, understood, believed and obeyed.

When I read what God has said in scripture I’m reading the expressed mind / spirit of God.

If we put a camera in the room and observed you praying, it would appear as if you're talking to someone who's not there.

Yes. God is in heaven. I’m on earth. The camera would capture me but not God.

You‘ve given me the good impression that you’ve read the Bible, in whole or in part. You may recall that the Father isn’t visible. Moses saw him from behind, but no mortal human being can see his face and love. I pray to my God, the Father, who is invisible to me.

 

[Riven]

Jesus, the Apostles and the earliest of his disciples are in the Jewish community.

I know. I was just using it as an example.

How do you know that I’m talking to you? Is it not from reading my written words?

There is a close connection in scripture between mind and spirit. My words convey to you my mind, my spirit.

Jesus said that his words are spirit and life. His words are the expression of the mind of God and they are life-giving if heard, understood, believed and obeyed.

When I read what God has said in scripture I’m reading the expressed mind / spirit of God.

I see. Thank you for explaining.

Yes. God is in heaven. I’m on earth. The camera would capture me but not God.

You‘ve given me the good impression that you’ve read the Bible, in whole or in part. You may recall that the Father isn’t visible. Moses saw him from behind, but no mortal human being can see his face and love. I pray to my God, the Father, who is invisible to me.

Given that he is invisible to you, and doesn't speak to you directly, how do you know that your prayers are not in vain?

 

[Matthias]

Given that he is invisible to you, and doesn't speak to you directly …

I would say that he does speak to me directly. Even when I’m not reading the Bible, his words often come into my mind in normal, everyday, situations.

I’m filled with his mind -> I’m filled with his spirit -> I’m filled with him.

…. how do you know that your prayers are not in vain?

They’re answered.

All human beings are created in the image of God. When you see a fellow human being, you’re seeing an image of God. That image is tarnished, but it is there. It’s harder to see in some than it is to see in others.

 

[Matthias]

Men and women were either created accidentally or on purpose.

I see purpose.

 

[Riven]

Men and women were either created accidentally or on purpose.

I see purpose.

Do you think humans evolved over time into what we are today? Or do you think we were always as we are now?

 

[Matthias]

Do you think humans evolved over time into what we are today? Or do you think we were always as we are now?

I think man was purposely created by God as man; that man did not evolve from something that wasn’t man.

 

[Riven]

I think man was purposely created by God as man; that man did not evolve from something that wasn’t man.

What of those in the scientific community that believe otherwise? Do you believe all of them are wrong?

 

[Matthias]

What of those in the scientific community that believe otherwise? Do you believe all of them are wrong?

Yes.

 

[Jesusfollower]

There are many passages in the Bible that explicitly say that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is merciful and loving. Here’s an example:



But that’s far from the whole story. The Book of Joshua describes the conquest of the lands promised to the Israelites. Chapter 12 lists 31 kingdoms that were conquered under the leadership of Joshua. But those kingdoms weren’t just conquered. Every one of the kings of those kingdoms was killed. And not only that, but every one of the cities and towns over which those kings ruled was destroyed. And not only that, but all of the men, women, and children who lived in those cities and towns were killed:



God himself actively participated in this slaughter:



Furthermore, God ordered this slaughter:



Exactly why did God plan to slaughter all of those people? The answer is provided elsewhere in Deuteronomy:



So God didn’t want the Israelites to intermarry with the people of that region. But if God were actually merciful and loving, was there no other way to prevent the Israelites from intermarrying the indigenous people of the promised lands, or was slaughter the only possible option?

An omniscient God would have known that this problem would arise, and he could have planned for it at the time when he created the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, the galaxies, and the earth itself. An omnipotent God could have created a force field around the entire region to prevent anyone else from entering. Then, when the Israelites arrived, he could have disabled the force field to let the Israelites enter a region that would have been fertile, lush, and unpopulated.

Or alternatively an omnipotent God could have left the promised lands at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea. Then when the Israelites arrived he could have lifted up the promised lands from the sea floor and the Israelites could have entered a region that would have been pristine, new, and uninhabited.

Or a truly omnipotent God could have lifted up all of the 31 kingdoms to carry them out of the way. If God had done that the inhabitants of that region would have been immensely grateful-- and he would thereby have gotten thousands of new followers as a result. Instead the only new followers he got were Rahab of Jericho and the other members of her whorehouse.

Slaughtering people simply for their beliefs is genocide. Yahweh certainly had plenty of time and opportunity to choose another path. Why didn’t Yahweh choose any of the options listed above? There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.

In the Old Testament of the Bible, particularly in the books of Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and Joshua, we find accounts of the Israelites engaging in military conflicts with various peoples as they journeyed to and settled in the land of Canaan, which God had promised to them.

The commands to fight and sometimes to utterly destroy certain peoples are typically justified within the biblical narrative through several key reasons:

Judgment for Wickedness: God sometimes commanded the destruction of certain nations because of their profound moral corruption and wickedness. For example, in Genesis 15:16, it is said that the sin of the Amorites had not yet reached its full measure, indicating that God's judgment was based on the extreme moral degradation of these societies.
Purposes of Judgment and Conquest: The conquest of Canaan was not only about fulfilling God's promise to Israel but also about executing divine judgment on nations that had strayed far from God's ways. The Israelites were seen as instruments of God's justice in this context.
Prevention of Idolatry and Corruption: The Canaanite religions and practices included child sacrifice, temple prostitution, and various forms of idolatry that were anathema to the monotheistic worship of Yahweh, the God of Israel. The destruction of these nations was intended to prevent Israel from being influenced and corrupted by such practices (Deuteronomy 20:17-18).
Divine Purposes and Sovereignty: Ultimately, the biblical narrative portrays God as sovereign over all nations. His commands were seen as a part of his larger plan for the redemption of humanity, culminating in the coming of Jesus Christ.

It's important to interpret these passages within their historical and theological context, understanding that they reflect ancient Near Eastern warfare and legal norms, as well as theological concepts of God's justice and sovereignty as understood by the ancient Israelites. These passages have been subject to varying interpretations throughout history, ranging from literal to allegorical understandings depending on theological perspectives and historical context.

Do you start to get it? God has a plan and he will do as he pleases, he is just and Good but He has not allowed you to see this, you are not part of His current or future plans.

Did The Canaanites Really Sacrifice Their Children?

Were the Canaanites merciless child killers or gentle nature worshippers? Warning: Subject matter may disturb Historical revisionist theories regularly receive more traction among Bible critics tha…

biblereadingarcheology.com

 

[Riven]

Yes.

So, the entire scientific community is wrong? This is the same kind of argument that flat eathers make.

 

[Matthias]

So, the entire scientific community is wrong?

No. Just the scientific community that “believes otherwise”.

This is the same kind of argument that flat eathers make.

It’s not my argument, and I’m not a flat earther.

 

[Riven]

It’s not my argument, and I’m not a flat earther.

Why don't you believe that the earth is flat? If the scientists are wrong about evolution and biology, why do you believe they're correct about the shape of the earth?

 

[Matthias]

Why don't you believe that the earth is flat?

I’ve been around the world.

If the scientists are wrong about evolution and biology….

Not all scientists buy into evolutionary theory.

… why do you believe they're correct about the shape of the earth?

How many scientists do you know of - evolutionists or creationists - who believe the earth is flat?

Do you believe the earth is flat? Why or why not?

 

[Matthias]

My Twitter / X feed just moments ago:

“If someone ever asks you, ‘Is the Bible reliable?’, send them this”

x.com

x.com

But scientists.

 

[Riven]

I’ve been around the world.

I haven't. But that evidence for a spherical earth is overwhelming. I wouldn't just take anyone's word for it.

Not all scientists buy into evolutionary theory.

The vast majority do. The idea that they're all wrong seems improbable to me.

How many scientists do you know of - evolutionists or creationists - who believe the earth is flat?

Do you believe the earth is flat? Why or why not?

I know of no scientists that believe the earth is flat. I know several Christians personally that either believe it's flat or are on the fence. It's troubling to see Christians that are otherwise intelligent, engaging in such nonsense.

 

[Matthias]

The vast majority do. The idea that they're all wrong seems improbable to me.

What is preventing you from being persuaded by the majority?

 

[Riven]

What is preventing you from being persuaded by the majority?

I am persuaded by the majority of scientists that believe in evolution.

 

[Matthias]

I am persuaded by the majority of scientists that believe in evolution.

So you’re an agnostic evolutionist then.

You mentioned earlier that, like me, you’re not persuaded by theistic arguments for evolution. Why are you agnostic rather than atheist?

 

[Riven]

So you’re an agnostic evolutionist then.

I guess you could say that.

You mentioned earlier that, like me, you’re not persuaded by theistic arguments for evolution. Why are you agnostic rather than atheist?

Because I can't be certain that there is no God. There's still no satisfying scientific explanation for why we're all here. I think Christians that try to squeeze evolution into Genesis are just desperate to try to reconcile their faith with science.