Q for JW- KIEW?

[Zao is life]

Jesus was never called savior in the OT, only Jehovah was. If Jesus had failed the ransom sacrifice he wouldn't be savior. He had free will as we all do. He could have chosen to rebel. Its why satan tried to get him to rebel in the wilderness. And satan offered him-every kingdom( govt, armies supporters) on earth for an act of worship( sin)--because satan controls all of them. As the world will find out at Rev 16 when every kingdom on earth gets mislead to stand in opposition to Gods king at Armageddon.

If Jesus was a created being He would have had sin like all the sons of Adam and His sacrifice would not be counted.

 

[Zao is life]

There is only one God=Jehovah the Father. Jesus is Gods son=not God. All sons are created by their Fathers.

Nope. All sons are begotten of their fathers. The seed was in Adam. Not created by man but by God. The human genes. No man creates his son. Your arguments are ridiculous.

 

[Zao is life]

Jws will not clink on links from Christians. They are not allowed. They teach that Christians are antichrists.

They need prayer. It's useless showing them the truth in the Bible, because they printed their own bible with all necessary changes to align with the doctrines of their cult. They are not born again of the Spirit of God, and so do not have the Spirit of Truth in them to help them to understand the scriptures. Their understanding is produced by human reason, and it shows in almost every statement that gets posted by @Keiw .

 

[PS95]

They need prayer. It's useless showing them the truth in the Bible, because they printed their own bible with all necessary changes to align with the doctrines of their cult. They are not born again of the Spirit of God, and so do not have the Spirit of Truth in them to help them to understand the scriptures. Their understanding is produced by human reason, and it shows in almost every statement that gets posted by @Keiw .

I agree. I have asked for prayer a few times for them on here. It's the spirit of antichrist.
Just as John taught us.
Jesus also warned us time and time again about false teachers, prophets, etc
Paul warned us about a different gospel. --and a different Jesus.

Human reasoning is a key for them quite often and, they will admit by using scripture to justify reasoning.
This human reasoning is so important to them that it justifies adding and taking away words in scripture to suit that very reasoning.

"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity of life. His life-force was not to be extinguished but would be transferred to the ovum of the virgin girl, Mary." WT 2-15-82 p. 7

WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT???
It doesn't of course but that's a-ok with them.
I was thinking about that. Does it not make Michael the father of Jesus? the union of Mary's ovum (egg) with the impersonal life force of an angel (Michael) = Mother, Mary, Father, Michael?
lol?

I think that this nutshells why they teach such things-

Dont belong to Jesus Christ.

When a JW (Jehovahs witness) comes to your door many are left confused and frustrated unable to pinpoint what the problem was exactly. Here is a list of some things Jws happily lack (and believe that you can not possibly have either). They will try to convert you to their other hope, the...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Keiw]

Keiw, Luke 14, ever read it? You have had invitations to come to Christ. You have rejected Him every time and have chosen man. That's what man does. The road is few.

14:15-23
15 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”

16 Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’

18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’

19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’

20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’

21 “The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’

22 “‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’

23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’”

​

Rom 6:7--Acquitted of all sin at death.
Facts= God has already judged sin-The wages of sin = death. Thus those cannot be rejudged on past sin in the resurrection having paid in full the wages of sin-Apostate darkness says the resurrected will be judged on past sins during the resurrection.
Proof=Daniel 12:2:3- talking of the resurrection, The ones having insight( great crowd brought through Armageddon)will shine like the brightness of the expanse and those who are bringing the many to righteousness--- see some resurrected will be brought to righteousness-means when resurrected were not righteous ones but wicked ones in Gods view--Its exactly as the JW,s teach-All will get an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will in the resurrection,( what an outstanding love God has) some will still fall when their faith gets tested when satan is loosed for a little while. Since the ones brought through Armageddon had their faith tested and passed and the righteous resurrected ones had their faith tested and passed. There would be no sense letting satan back out if the wicked were all destroyed on past sins now would there except to test the faith of those who were wicked but given an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will then get tested to see if they will stand. There as well would be 0 sense bringing wicked dead back to life to tell them they are going back to death. Crushing their loved ones hearts who see them alive again.
Now you being proven wrong and the darkness being proven wrong, you can be like the prodigal son and repent and turn around and give yourself back to Jehovah who would welcome you with open arms, bringing joy not only to your family and the brothers in Christ but all of heaven as well.
A domestic-NEVER knows truth over Jesus' appointed teachers on earth. Only haughty wicked hearts of darkness believe they do.

 

[Keiw]

KJV Philippians 2:9
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The name of Jesus, Yeshua, Saviour, was a gift. The name spoken of in Hebrews was His by right, by inheritance, due Him by consequence of birthright. The same name as His Father. YHWH.

Psalm 110:1 quoted at Matt 22:44= This is the utterance of YHWH to my Lord( Jesus), sit at MY right hand until I make your enemies your footstool= proves Jesus is NOT YHWH. And one CANNOT sit at their own right hand--- Teachers of darkness teach what you posted.

 

[Keiw]

If Jesus was a created being He would have had sin like all the sons of Adam and His sacrifice would not be counted.

No angel beings were born in sin. They do have free will though.
The ransom sacrifice-showing Gods perfect justice = A perfect mortal rebelled and lost perfection for all men afterwards-- A perfect mortal stood and paid in full the wages of sin he did not owe=the ransom sacrifice, thus giving mortals an opportunity to gain life everlasting. Without the ransom sacrifice none could gain that.

 

[PS95]

Rom 6:7--Acquitted of all sin at death.
Facts= God has already judged sin-The wages of sin = death. Thus those cannot be rejudged on past sin in the resurrection having paid in full the wages of sin-Apostate darkness says the resurrected will be judged on past sins during the resurrection.
Proof=Daniel 12:2:3- talking of the resurrection, The ones having insight( great crowd brought through Armageddon)will shine like the brightness of the expanse and those who are bringing the many to righteousness--- see some resurrected will be brought to righteousness-means when resurrected were not righteous ones but wicked ones in Gods view--Its exactly as the JW,s teach-All will get an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will in the resurrection,( what an outstanding love God has) some will still fall when their faith gets tested when satan is loosed for a little while. Since the ones brought through Armageddon had their faith tested and passed and the righteous resurrected ones had their faith tested and passed. There would be no sense letting satan back out if the wicked were all destroyed on past sins now would there except to test the faith of those who were wicked but given an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will then get tested to see if they will stand. There as well would be 0 sense bringing wicked dead back to life to tell them they are going back to death. Crushing their loved ones hearts who see them alive again.
Now you being proven wrong and the darkness being proven wrong, you can be like the prodigal son and repent and turn around and give yourself back to Jehovah who would welcome you with open arms, bringing joy not only to your family and the brothers in Christ but all of heaven as well.
A domestic-NEVER knows truth over Jesus' appointed teachers on earth. Only haughty wicked hearts of darkness believe they do.

Keiw, Please read Romans 6 in context. This is really getting ridiculous. You didnt read Luke 14 either? All that you are revealing on this thread is how you refuse to read your bible in context, and just a parrot cherry picked plucked right out of context verse to try to convince people of unbiblical doctrines. PAUL IS SPEAKING ABOUT DYING TO SIN WHILE WE ARE ALIVE NOW.

 

[Keiw]

They need prayer. It's useless showing them the truth in the Bible, because they printed their own bible with all necessary changes to align with the doctrines of their cult. They are not born again of the Spirit of God, and so do not have the Spirit of Truth in them to help them to understand the scriptures. Their understanding is produced by human reason, and it shows in almost every statement that gets posted by @Keiw .

Words of darkness in your post. I do appreciate that you would pray for us but. lets look at the facts.
God put his name in his bible over 7000 places-Why? Because God wants his name in his bible in every one of those spots= Gods will.
Satan through wicked men removed Gods name and replaced it with titles against Gods will to mislead.=undeniable facts
Thus all religions using the altered versions are standing in opposition to Gods will and giving support to satans will= 100% fact of life.= the darkness= the ones who condemned the only translators to put Gods name back where God wants it.--proving 100% they are MISLEAD by satan transforming into an angel of light( 2 Cor 11:12-15) his teachers follow suit. I will pray for you.

 

[Keiw]

Keiw, Please read Romans 6 in context. This is really getting ridiculous. You didnt read Luke 14 either? All that you are revealing on this thread is how you refuse to read your bible in context, and just a parrot cherry picked plucked right out of context verse to try to convince people of unbiblical doctrines. PAUL IS SPEAKING ABOUT DYING TO SIN WHILE WE ARE ALIVE NOW.

I just showed you the proof. You twisting truth in your darkness-99% of all the religions claiming to be christian have that in common. You read Dan 12: 2-3
Is it not 100% bible fact-The wages of sin = death= Gods judgement passed on sin.

 

[PS95]

I just showed you the proof. You twisting truth in your darkness-99% of all the religions claiming to be christian have that in common. You read Dan 12: 2-3
Is it not 100% bible fact-The wages of sin = death= Gods judgement passed on sin.

Kiew, WHY do you refuse to answer what I ask you? I have SIMPLY asked you to read Romans 6 with me. You have flat out refused for what-- 15 pages now? You would think I had pliers attempting to pull out all of your teeth! its just crazy. There is no explanation for the way you are behaving.
I have pretty much stayed on topic here you must admit. But, I did type out a parable for you, about Jesus and inviting many to a banquet-- but they refused to come. That is still happening today. Why do you refuse his invitation? Because some men in NY told you that you can't go- only they can? Listen to Jesus not man!!! You know what I am doing?
I AM POINTING YOU TO JESUS CHRIST.
NOT TO MAN.
and yet, You keep saying I'm evil.
Hmm

 

[Keiw]

Kiew, WHY do you refuse to answer what I ask you? I have SIMPLY asked you to read Romans 6 with me. You have flat out refused for what-- 15 pages now? You would think I had pliers attempting to pull out all of your teeth! its just crazy. There is no explanation for the way you are behaving.
I have pretty much stayed on topic here you must admit. But, I did type out a parable for you, about Jesus and inviting many to a banquet-- but they refused to come. That is still happening today. Why do you refuse his invitation? Because some men in NY told you that you can't go- only they can? Listen to Jesus not man!!! You know what I am doing?
I AM POINTING YOU TO JESUS CHRIST.
NOT TO MAN.
and yet, You keep saying I'm evil.
Hmm

I have read Romans 6. It speaks of what you say, but the line--one is acquitted of all sin at death= the real death, not dying to sin, because all still sin and are not really dead to it.

 

[PS95]

I have read Romans 6. It speaks of what you say, but the line--one is acquitted of all sin at death= the real death, not dying to sin, because all still sin and are not really dead to it.

Oh thank u for reading it! I appreciate that! I wish I could meet you in person and sit down and go over all of this together.
The idea that Paul switched gears from speaking about the present tense to our physical death in v 7 isn't right, Keiw. He is stillonthe same idea. KEEP reading- til end of chapter?
Verse 12- therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey it's lusts ..read v 13- we are to present ourselves as those who are alive from the dead. He is STILL speaking about our rebirth.- our new lives- a new creation-. He speaks to this in all of his letters!!
You say since we still sin we arent dead to it. Paul isnt saying we will never sin again. He is saying that we are no longer slaves to sin. A slave to sin walks in sin, doesn't care, makes excuses.
A believer "who has died with Christ" has a new heart, does not want to sin, and confesses & repents if he does sin, and receives forgiveness in the blood of Christ who is our only mediator. We know that when walking in the spirit he doesn't sin, but when he slips and walks in the flesh he sins. That is why walking in the spirit is LIFE! I hope that made sense. :Like I said I wish we could go thru the bible together in person. Paul wrote a ton about this. Without the Spirit of God we can do nothing.

 

[PS95]

I have read Romans 6. It speaks of what you say, but the line--one is acquitted of all sin at death= the real death, not dying to sin, because all still sin and are not really dead to it.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as [iinstruments of righteousness to God.

14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

KEEP reading the chapter Keiw!!!

 

[Zao is life]

No angel beings were born in sin. They do have free will though.
The ransom sacrifice-showing Gods perfect justice = A perfect mortal rebelled and lost perfection for all men afterwards-- A perfect mortal stood and paid in full the wages of sin he did not owe=the ransom sacrifice, thus giving mortals an opportunity to gain life everlasting. Without the ransom sacrifice none could gain that.

Jesus became a man, not an angel. He created the angels.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (Hebrew: ruach, i.e Spirit) of His mouth.

"For ALL (created) things were CREATED BY HIM, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before ALL things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things."(Colossians 1:16-18).

Before: Pro
Firstborn: prototokos: From tikto: bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail.

It does not say Jesus was the first created being. It says He was BEFORE ALL (created) things, which were created BY HIM. If He was created it means He created Himself. Then He is God the Father, according to the JW's. Your JW arguments about this go round in circles.

Also, there are a number of places in the New Testament where the word theos is talking very clearly about God the Father (without calling Him the LORD, YHVH, and using the word theos without the definite article o theos). ALL your JW arguments regarding the word theos in the sentence "The Word was God" fail.

Your doctrine is not the doctrine of Y'shua the Messiah and His apostles, or of the prophets of God who wrote the Old Testament. It's the doctrine that was created in the confused mind of the man who started your cult, and the doctrine that produced your corruption of the biblical scriptures, which also produced your corrupted version of the Bible.

Jesus became a man, not an angel. He created the angels.

 

[Brakelite]

Psalm 110:1 quoted at Matt 22:44= This is the utterance of YHWH to my Lord( Jesus), sit at MY right hand until I make your enemies your footstool= proves Jesus is NOT YHWH. And one CANNOT sit at their own right hand--- Teachers of darkness teach what you posted.

That kind of response is evidence that you are refusing to actually read my posts. I wasn't discussing Psalm 110.1, although I of course have no argument with your reasoning. But Jesus's quote of palm 110 wasn't in the context of proving Himself as God or deity, but challenging the Pharisees on the self exalting pride and arrogance, asking them a question they couldn't, it refused, to answer.
Now.
How about addressing my posts instead of dodging them?

Here it is again...

Wasn't me. It was Isaiah., Matthew, and Mark. Did you look up those verses? And I didn't say Jesus is Father Jehovah, I said the Son shares His Father's name, and is therefore God.

KJV Isaiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Speaking of John the Baptist, Matthew said...
KJV Matthew 3:3
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

And Mark agreed, in fact, Mark's gospel was written first I believe...
KJV Mark 1:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

No-one has ever declared themselves unworthy to tie the shoe laces of an angel. But the Son of God?

KJV Hebrews 1:1-3, 8
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

KJV Hebrews 1:4
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

 

[Keiw]

Oh thank u for reading it! I appreciate that! I wish I could meet you in person and sit down and go over all of this together.
The idea that Paul switched gears from speaking about the present tense to our physical death in v 7 isn't right, Keiw. He is stillonthe same idea. KEEP reading- til end of chapter?
Verse 12- therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey it's lusts ..read v 13- we are to present ourselves as those who are alive from the dead. He is STILL speaking about our rebirth.- our new lives- a new creation-. He speaks to this in all of his letters!!
You say since we still sin we arent dead to it. Paul isnt saying we will never sin again. He is saying that we are no longer slaves to sin. A slave to sin walks in sin, doesn't care, makes excuses.
A believer "who has died with Christ" has a new heart, does not want to sin, and confesses & repents if he does sin, and receives forgiveness in the blood of Christ who is our only mediator. We know that when walking in the spirit he doesn't sin, but when he slips and walks in the flesh he sins. That is why walking in the spirit is LIFE! I hope that made sense. :Like I said I wish we could go thru the bible together in person. Paul wrote a ton about this. Without the Spirit of God we can do nothing.

I will believe my teachers 24/7 365 over one who stands in opposition. Every religion claiming to be christian= hundreds of them with hundreds of different truths claim to have holy spirit guidance= bull. God has 1 truth=1 religion has it out of the hundreds.

 

[Keiw]

Jesus became a man, not an angel. He created the angels.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (Hebrew: ruach, i.e Spirit) of His mouth.

"For ALL (created) things were CREATED BY HIM, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before ALL things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things."(Colossians 1:16-18).

Before: Pro
Firstborn: prototokos: From tikto: bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail.

It does not say Jesus was the first created being. It says He was BEFORE ALL (created) things, which were created BY HIM. If He was created it means He created Himself. Then He is God the Father, according to the JW's. Your JW arguments about this go round in circles.

Also, there are a number of places in the New Testament where the word theos is talking very clearly about God the Father (without calling Him the LORD, YHVH, and using the word theos without the definite article o theos). ALL your JW arguments regarding the word theos in the sentence "The Word was God" fail.

Your doctrine is not the doctrine of Y'shua the Messiah and His apostles, or of the prophets of God who wrote the Old Testament. It's the doctrine that was created in the confused mind of the man who started your cult, and the doctrine that produced your corruption of the biblical scriptures, which also produced your corrupted version of the Bible.

Jesus became a man, not an angel. He created the angels.

The name-YHVH belongs at Psalm 33:6 not LORD--your altered translations mislead.
Yes Jesus became a perfect mortal man. He is Michael the archangel prior and after.

 

[Keiw]

That kind of response is evidence that you are refusing to actually read my posts. I wasn't discussing Psalm 110.1, although I of course have no argument with your reasoning. But Jesus's quote of palm 110 wasn't in the context of proving Himself as God or deity, but challenging the Pharisees on the self exalting pride and arrogance, asking them a question they couldn't, it refused, to answer.
Now.
How about addressing my posts instead of dodging them?

Here it is again...

Jesus is not God, he is Gods son.

 

[PS95]

I will believe my teachers 24/7 365 over one who stands in opposition. Every religion claiming to be christian= hundreds of them with hundreds of different truths claim to have holy spirit guidance= bull. God has 1 truth=1 religion has it out of the hundreds.

Ok Keiw. You believe your GB.
I will believe Jesus and Paul.
You were invited to the banquet. Luke 14
It's not too late to change your mind.
Come it's free.