Spiritual Warfare

[GracePeace]

WOW. You got it. From righteousness into holiness. The OT standard is righteousness and the NT standard is holiness(IN God's righteousness)

The OT saints walked in the "lower walk" of righteousness but with the ATTITUDE of a saint. We learn the right attitude from them although we can walk at a level that was only in prophecies.

The reason I'd be uncertain about how to define their walk is because Abraham was said to have "steps of faith" whereby he had "glorified God" (Ro 4) : New Covenant righteousness, true righteousness, is "God Is Our Righteousness" (Jer 23:6). Unrighteousness has the effect of "suppressing the truth about God" (Ro 1:18), so righteousness would have to be revealing the truth about God. Therefore, Abraham was justified by the righteousness of faith, because "He who believes the Son has set his seal to this : God is true", thus they are revealing God, in a sense. So, what level of God was Abraham revealing? We can't reveal God/be righteous without Him revealing Himself to us, but God couldn't have revealed Himself to Abraham on the same level as us right? Not sure. He wasn't "perfect"...

 

[Episkopos]

You're were the very first one on this Thread, today, to infer that someone is "dishonest", and "ignorant" in your same post..... and now you want to wine about "lack of moderation", on your behalf?.

What you call a fact I call the truth. The cross is about holiness...sanctification, a purifying from sin. The cross is an instrument of death...the death of the outer man ego that contains the sin nature. Why is that necessary? To liberate the inner man into a divine fellowship with the living God. The gospel is about liberty to the captives. What could be more glorious...the glorious gospel.

That's what I preach. :)

 

[Marvelloustime]

our sister will , LORD willing be here soon . she was helping me on another site . sister was encouraging me at another site .
The mission i am on dear sister , will be a mission that more and more will see as hate .
BUT ITS NOT . remember I POINT too and REMIND all about THE DIRE NECESSITY TO FIRST HAVE TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
I , by the SPIRIT do testify OF HIM . many no longer do
they rather testify about maybe doing some good works and loving your neighbor
or carrying your cross , BUT FAIL to remind anyone WE HAVE TO BELIEVE ON THAT ONE , aka JESUS THE CHRIST .
AND sister , THIS I WILL NOT DO or allow on my watch . Be encouraged .
and be fired up for the glorious LORD , this train ride might be bumpy
and you can bet folks will come against it , BUT ITS THE TRAIN RIDE FOR JESUS THE CHRIST . now hit them trenches sister .

@amigo de christo @Ritajanice
I am here. Let the Lord be praised.

 

[Behold]

What you call a fact I call the truth.

I "call" the fact that you posted that the "Cross is not about Forgiveness" , over and over....= Cross denying theology.
That's the truth.

The cross is about holiness...sanctification, a purifying from sin.

The Cross is "about" the Sacrifice of Christ,

Its this..:

"Jesus is the one time Eternal Sacrifice for sin"
"God hath made JESUS, to be sin for us".

Because... "without the shedding of BLOOD there is no forgiveness, redemption, or remission" of sin."

The Cross is where the eternal forgiveness of God, meets the Believer, through Christ.

and, its Jesus's "offering" of Himself on the Cross, that God accepts on the behalf of a sinner, that allows the Sinner's "faith to be counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness"".

Romans 4:5

The cross is an instrument of death...the death of the outer man ego that contains the sin nature.

Jesus died on the Cross , so that you can be forgiven all your sin, as we all can, and some have.

The "old man of sin", is indeed "crucified with Christ", and the born again, have become "all things have become new"... they are a "new creation in Christ".

 

[GracePeace]

I "call" the fact that you posted that the "Cross is not about Forgiveness" , over and over....= Cross denying theology.
That's the truth.




The Cross is "about" the Sacrifice of Christ,

Its this..:

"Jesus is the one time Eternal Sacrifice for sin"
"God hath made JESUS, to be sin for us".

Because... "without the shedding of BLOOD there is no forgiveness, redemption, or remission" of sin."

The Cross is where the eternal forgiveness of God, meets the Believer, through Christ.

and, its Jesus's "offering" of Himself on the Cross, that God accepts on the behalf of a sinner, that allows the Sinner's "faith to be counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness"".

Romans 4:5



Jesus died on the Cross , so that you can be forgiven all your sin, as we all can, and some have.

The "old man of sin", is indeed "crucified with Christ", and the born again, have become "all things have become new"... they are a "new creation in Christ".

What the two of you are saying sounds synonymous.

I guess the difference is you're emphasizing what God has done for us, whereas he is emphasizing what God is doing for us on an ongoing basis (eg, Paul still had a problem with boasting, so God sent satan to attack his body, what ever that meant, to keep him from boasting--what ever Christ did on the Cross didn't mean Paul would not sin, he had to cooperate with God's ongoing intervention, grace, to progress in sanctification).

 

[Behold]

God couldn't have revealed Himself to Abraham on the same level as us right? Not sure. He wasn't "perfect"...

Its the righteousness of God that makes us righteous...when we receive "the gift of Righteousness".... as what else could make a sinner, "made Righteous".

So, as soon as a person is born again, then the Gift of Righteousness that they have received, makes them "righteous".

How do you know?
Its because God could not join Himself to anything less then His own Righteousness.. so, He gives the BELIEVER, "the Gift of Righteousness", which qualifies them to be born again into Spiritual Union with God.

There is one Spiritual Birth, but its 3 parts.

First, God has to forgive your sin, with the Blood and Death of Jesus... so that is the "blood atonement" solving your sin issue.

2nd, God has to make you righteous, now that you are free from sin.... so, you receive "the Gift of Righteousness".

Lastly... Now that you are made free from sin, and are "made righteous".. God then births your spirit into His by the Holy Spirit and now, the believer is born again, as a "new creation" in Christ.

 

[GracePeace]

Its the righteousness of God that makes us "perfect",..... as what else could make a sinner, "made Righteous".

So, as soon as a person is born again, then the Gift of Righteousness that they have received, makes them "righteous".

How do you know?
Its because God could not join Himself to anything less then His own Righteousness.. so, He gives the BELIEVER, "the Gift of Righteousness", which qualifies them to be born again into Spiritual Union with God.

There is one Spiritual Birth, but its 3 parts.

First, God has to forgive your sin, with the Blood and Death of Jesus... so that is the "blood atonement" solving your sin issue.

2nd, God has to make you righteous, not that you are free from sin.... so, you receive "the Gift of Righteousness".

Lastly... Now that you are made free from sin, and are "made righteous".. God then births your spirit into His by the Holy Spirit and now, the believer is born again, as a "new creation" in Christ.

I meant that I don't know that Abraham was "born again", because Hebrews 11 says he was only "just', not "made perfect" by the blood of the New Covenant (which had not at the time been inaugurated).

 

[Behold]

-what ever Christ did on the Cross didn't mean Paul would not sin

Paul never confessed a sin, in 13 epistles.

Why not?

Its for the same reason that he never told the young man, to "confess your sin"... who was fornicating with His Dad's new wife, in the Corinthian Epistle.
Read it.

See.... Paul is the NT teacher who taught the Church that "Christ is the End of the Law".. .which means the born again are "not under the Law , but under Grace"

God only sees the born again, as "under Grace"... never again, "under the law.".

That simply means, that : "where there is no LAW, there is no sin, no Transgression" defined or counted.

If you read 2 Corin 5:19 and John 3:17, and Romans 4:8... you'll discover that God does not charge sin to a born again Christian, ever again.
Not ever.

Why not?

Its because God has already judged Jesus TO DEATH, for all your sin... on The Cross., 2000 yr ago.

"God hath made JESUS.. to BE SIN.. .for us"... as "the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for SIN".

Also..... Only the LAW can define sin as sin and you as a sinner..... and the Born again, are "not under the Law, but under Grace".

So, you have the Blood and Death of Jesus that has redeemed the born again from all sin, and there is no more LAW to define your behavior, as sin.. because "Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes" (All the born again).

The born again exist :

"IN Christ"
"One with God"
"seated in Heavenly Places..

A.) There is no sin found there, and all the born again, exist there.

 

[Behold]

I meant that I don't know that Abraham was "born again", because Hebrews 11 says he was only "just', not "made perfect" by the blood of the New Covenant (which had not at the time been inaugurated).

Just as our "faith is counted by God, as righteousness", so was Abrahams....
Paul defines Him as the "father of our faith".

And as there was no Cross at the time..... then He went to "Abraham's Bosom"... "Paradise", as Jesus defined it to the dying Thief, before they both went there, and The Lord dealt with all those old Testament Saints.

 

[GracePeace]

Paul never confessed a sin, in 13 epistles.

Why not?

Its for the same reason that he never told the young man, to "confess your sin"... who was fornicating with His Dad's new wife, in the Corinthian Epistle.
Read it.

See.... Paul is the NT teacher who taught the Church that "Christ is the End of the Law".. .which means the born again are "not under the Law , but under Grace"

God only sees the born again, as "under Grace"... never again, "under the law.".

That simply means, that : "where there is no LAW, there is no sin, no Transgression" defined or counted.

If you read 2 Corin 5:19 and John 3:17, and Romans 4:8... you'll discover that God does not charge sin to a born again Christian, ever again.
Not ever.

Why not?

Its because God has already judged Jesus TO DEATH, for all your sin... on The Cross., 2000 yr ago.

"God hath made JESUS.. to BE SIN.. .for us"... as "the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for SIN".

Also..... Only the LAW can define sin as sin and you as a sinner..... and the Born again, are "not under the Law, but under Grace".

So, you have the Blood and Death of Jesus that has redeemed the born again from all sin, and there is no more LAW to define your behavior, as sin.. because "Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes" (All the born again).

The born again exist :

"IN Christ"
"One with God"
"seated in Heavenly Places..

A.) There is no sin found there, and all the born again, exist there.

Christ had to send a messenger of satan to Paul, to attack his body, to keep him from boasting. It wasn't "the Cross alone" for Paul.

 

[GracePeace]

Just as our "faith is counted by God, as righteousness", so was Abrahams....
Paul defines Him as the "father of our faith".

And as there was no Cross at the time..... then He went to "Abraham's Bosom"... "Paradise", as Jesus defined it to the dying Thief, before they both went there, and The Lord dealt with all those old Testament Saints.

I don't conflate things--I still don't know if Abraham was "born again".

 

[Episkopos]

I don't conflate things--I still don't know if Abraham was "born again".

Abraham was justified in his own righteousness...in the lower walk. No one was born of the Spirit until Jesus was glorified. Being born again is the first step in a race in holiness. After an initial grace we need a fulness of grace by entering INTO Christ. As such we need to surrender all...from a sample into MORE grace....enough grace to walk as Jesus walked.

May grace be multiplied to you. :)

 

[Behold]

Christ had to send a messenger of satan to Paul, to attack his body, to keep him from boasting. It wasn't "the Cross alone" for Paul.

Paul was not accepted by God based on a "thorn in his flesh"...

He was already a born again Christian, based on God accepting Paul's faith in Christ.... long before he was stoned to death, ..which is why he saw the vision of 3rd Heaven.

Also, its not recorded that this "messenger of Satan", that was causing Paul's discomfort, was not later resolved.
Paul lived about another Decade, and perhaps this issue was resolved.
The Bible does not tell us.

This is one of those....>>"i wonder what happened"....
Its like DEMAS, who was Paul's convert... who "loved this present world"....
Its not recorded that He didnt come back to the ministry....
Maybe he did...


Another one is Paul and Barnabas... who "split" because of (John) Mark.
Its not recorded that they never "made up"..
Maybe they did.

Some things that the Bible shows us, are not always resolved, later in Scripture.

 

[Behold]

I don't conflate things--I still don't know if Abraham was "born again".

I also dont "conflate",

Abramham was not born again, as i explained.

"no Cross" = no born again, as i explained.

So, He went to "Abraham's Bosom, that is defined as "Paradise", not Heaven.
Jesus spoke of it, to the dying Thief......"today you will be with me in "Paradise".. .. not Heaven.
Jesus was in the Ground for more than one day.

1 Peter explains all this in chapter 3.
Read it.

 

[Episkopos]

I also dont "conflate",

Abramham was not born again, as i explained.

"no Cross" = no born again, as i explained.

So what kind of righteousness was imputed to Abraham?

 

[GracePeace]

Abraham was justified in his own righteousness...in the lower walk. No one was born of the Spirit until Jesus was glorified. Being born again is the first step in a race in holiness. After an initial grace we need a fulness of grace by entering INTO Christ. As such we need to surrender all...from a sample into MORE grace....enough grace to walk as Jesus walked.

May grace be multiplied to you. :)

I have to believe that one's own righteousness is different than Abraham's, because Abraham's was based on God revealing Himself to Abraham, and Abraham believing, whereas "a righteousness of my own" has to do with looking at oneself--imo the difference between God's righteousness and one's own righteousness is who is being beheld.

 

[Behold]

Abraham was justified in his own righteousness...

"all have sinned, there is non righteous, no not one".

Including Abraham, and Mary.

The NT says. .. (Paul teaches), that Abrahams FAITH, was counted by God.. as Abraham's Righteousness.

Genesis 15:6 we are told that.... : Abraham = “believed the Lord, (FAITH)= and God counted it to him as righteousness.”

 

[Behold]

So what kind of righteousness was imputed to Abraham?

God's.

 

[Episkopos]

I have to believe that one's own righteousness is different than Abraham's, because Abraham's was based on God revealing Himself to Abraham, and Abraham believing, whereas "a righteousness of my own" has to do with looking at oneself--imo the difference between God's righteousness and one's own righteousness is who is being beheld.

Not at all. Without entering into Christ there is NO holiness. Abraham was not IN Christ...therefore he was walking as a man. It just so happens that Abraham trusted God. It doesn't say he walked in holiness. We can be justified while still walking as a man...like the Publican or the thief on the cross.

 

[GracePeace]

Not at all. Without entering into Christ there is NO holiness. Abraham was not IN Christ...therefore he was walking as a man. It just so happens that Abraham trusted God. It doesn't say he walked in holiness. We can be justified while still walking as a man...like the Publican or the thief on the cross.

Just sayin : we know there is a discrepancy, but, to me, much more exhaustive study could be done. I'm not satisfied with the current knowledge to reach a conclusion.