James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Bible Highlighter]

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Give evidence that the book of James is not Jesus' brother.

Give evidence that James is not Jesus' brother. Nearly all scholars believe James is written by Jesus' brother.

Like I said. You use a majority argument ONLY when it meets your requirement. You promote a corrupt English translation of the Bible in the KJV. That isn't a majority position.

Why are all these men lying?

All men lie. Some knowingly lie. Many don't realize what they are saying is a lie. Same result either way. A lie is believed.

I can tell you the majority of these men believe in faith alone. So, they have good reason to discredit James as not authentic but they don't.

You are in the fringe group of conspiracy theorists.

I simply believe the truth. I have no other agenda. I am loyal the Truth in Jesus Christ. Not in anyone else. I fellowship with anyone that names the name of Christ but I don't believe what anyone says because of who they are or what they are to me. Christ alone is worthy of undying, unfeigned loyality.

You can't argue the details of how James is established. You're floundering terribly. There is a reason for this..... You're believing a lie.

 

[Titus]

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”

Can man boast of believing in God?
His faith saves him, why not boast of faith?

Paul is not teaching faith alone salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9.

Paul is teaching meritorious works are not involved in salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9.

What works can man boast about? Works that have earned him salvation.
Since salvation cannot be earned period. Works of merit cannot save.
Works of God, do save.
Therefore Paul is not teaching faith alone salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9.
Paul is teaching no works of merit are in salvation.
Faith alone excludes works. This is impossible.
For we are saved by the works of God like faith, John 6:28-29.

Faith alone salvation goes against Paul's gospel.
Ephesians 2:8-9;10
For by Grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast,
-for we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works.

 

[Titus]

Note: We cannot speculate on what happened prior of the thief’s life. All we have is the testimony of Scripture to go by here.

First the thief on the cross was saved under the old testament law of Moses. He is not how we are saved today under, the new covenant of Jesus' gospel.
Therefore the thief is no example or proof of salvation by the gospel of Jesus Christ. His will and testament was not yet in effect because He was still alive when He saved the thief. Therefore the thief was saved under the old law of Moses, Hevrews 9:16-17.

Speculation would be the position Fath onlyist, take when they say as fact, the thief was not baptized.
No one can give any evidence that the thief was not obedient to God, before Jesus forgave him, and saved him. Christians sin and forfeit their salvation. To be saved a Christian must repent of sins, 1John 1:9. The thief could have been saved already by John's baptism, Mark 1:4. Then the thief only needed Jesus to forgive him of his sins, which Jesus did.
It is wrong to say, that the thief had no obedience to God prior to his sin of stealing that ultimately led to his crucifixion.
We simply do not know the life of the thief. It is possible he was not baptized prior to being crucified.
Jesus saved him because he(thief) had Godly sorrow for his sins. He believed in Jesus.
To claim Jesus saved him based on faith only is speculation.
It is possible he was baptized,
Mark 1:4-5.

The thief was not saved without obedience.
The thief could have been an obedient jew. We do not know. Very little information is given about the thief on the cross.
What we do know is he had godly sorrow for his sins and he believed in Jesus.
Godly sorrow leads to a change of mind that results in a change of lifestyle,
2Corinthians 7:10,
-For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation.

The thief had to have a sorrow for stealing. If he had no godly sorrow for his sins.
Jesus would not have forgiven his sins and saved him.
The thief was not saved by faith only. He had a repentant heart.
Besides faith itself is a work, John 6:28-29.
Therefore there is no such thing as salvation completely absent from works.

What we need to be focusing on is how we are saved after Christ's death on the cross under His new covenant.
Now all today must be saved by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
That gospel was not commanded when the thief died. It came later.

All examples of Jesus directly saving folks in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John ARE BEFORE HIS GOSPEL WAS IN FORCE.
None of these folks are examples of how we are saved today, read Hebrews 9:16-17.

Acts chapter 2 is when Jesus gospel came into effect. We must be saved the way folks were saved in the book of Acts. That is salvation by the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Titus]

Paul taught the Ephesians that grace, faith and merit is not how man is saved.
Paul in fact taught the Ephesians the gospel of Jesus Christ in Acts 19:1-7.
Paul did not teach them to just believe to be saved.
Paul water baptized them for the forgiveness of their sins, Acts 2:38 ; Acts 22:16; 1Peter 3:20-21 ; Acts 8.
The Ephesians were first water baptized for the forgiveness of their sins in John's baptism.
John's baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, Mark 1:4-5.
Just as the baptism in Jesus' name is for the forgiveness of sins, Acts 2:38.
Just as Paul had his sins washed away, Acts 22:16.
Just as Peter taught baptism doth also now save us, 1Peter 3:20-21.

Paul and the rest of the apostles never taught Jesus' gospel was salvation by faith and no obedience.
Jesus taught faith and obeying the gospel is how we are saved, Mark 16:15-16.

 

[mailmandan]

I've been a member of multiple Christian forum sites for around 12 years now, and it used to be common to hear certain folks come right out and admit they believe we are saved by faith AND works (typically saved by "these" works and just not "those" works) yet another false teaching seems to be growing in popularity among works-salvationists. The false teaching that we are merely "initially" saved by grace through faith, not works, (Ephesians 2:8,9) but then after that our salvation is ultimately "maintained" by good works through the sanctification process.

I call that "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door. These folks who teach that will even sugar coat the message by saying these are "God's works" and "there is no boasting on our part," which is a cunning way to promote salvation by faith AND works. Just pass the credit over to God in order to justify yourself. One person even said, "We are not saved by works of our own, but we are saved by God’s works." This still culminates in salvation by faith + good works/works of righteousness which we have done. It's all smoke and mirrors.

The apostle Paul does not support salvation by works. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

A dude comes Selling you this ? If you say that you have faith, Then that's it ! end of story, you is Saved, you need do nothing but have little faith period ! You are a hero ! you go to Heaven !

Well that's a Lie ! for you need Faith that can move mountains to truly serve Christ Jesus in fact !

You must not be under the delusions and deceptions of this world, for if you are, then what is the good of you ! A Shepherd that offers up his Sheep to the slaughter ? a man with no skill in tending a flock ?

The Shepherd is worthy to deal with such Wolves !

One needs to be able to eat meat, not one who is just on milk.

 

[Scott Downey]

Thank you being kind with your words in Christ.
But I have to respectfully disagree on what you are saying here, friend.
Did not the thief on the cross obey God by trusting in Jesus when he asked the Lord to remember when He comes into His Kingdom?
Did the thief on the cross do any works to be saved in that moment while he was on the cross?
Note: We cannot speculate on what happened prior of the thief’s life. All we have is the testimony of Scripture to go by here.

What about the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14?
Jesus said that the Tax Collector was more justified by crying out unto God in seeking forgiveness of his sins with God over the Pharisee who made it all about works (and no grace). Are you telling me that the Tax Collector was doing a work by seeking forgiveness with God?

If you ever apologized to somebody, do you tell others that this was a laborious activity or job or work? If I sit there and do nothing but believe, I am not working. So when Jesus says, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent” (John 6:68), I believe that Jesus is referring to how this is God’s work (not our own work alone) ultimately. Granted, I am not proposing Calvinism here. I am strongly against Calvinism. What I am proposing is that our coming to the Lord Jesus is synergistic (But the work of God in our being able to have a chance at believing in Him is ultimately His work). We learn during the time of the Jews before the cross, that no man can come unto Jesus unless the Father draws Him (John 6:44). But this would not be a Calvinistic drawing but it was for those who have LEARNED of the Father already or had a relationship with Him (John 6:45).

In fact, we learn that the Holy Spirit needs to convict a person of their sin no doubt to get a person to believe.

John 16:8-9
“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;”

So this suggest that even the third person of the Trinity needs to first act in our lives so that we can believe, as well.
Meaning, we cannot convict ourselves of our own sin on the level God requires in order to properly believe in Jesus for salvation.
In other words, we need to truly be broken before God with a godly sorrow. This is only possible by the working of God.

Anyways, when we skip back to verse 27 (John 6:27) that says, “Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.” We have to understand that this is talking to the Jews who did not believe Jesus. They sought after the physical things like the food, etcetera. They did not realize that Jesus was the bread of life (salvation) to change them.

After the ascension of Christ (Whereby He would sit down at the right hand of God): I believe Jesus will be the One to draw all men unto Him (Instead of the Father drawing them to Jesus).

John 12:32
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

So without this drawing by Christ (GOD) we cannot come to Jesus. There was a specific time (or times in our lives) whereby I believe God called us to come to Him. Without this drawing (or work of GOD or Christ), there is no possible way for us to truly believe in Him. Yes, while Christ is drawing us… we have free will to receive Him or reject Him. But without this drawing or work of GOD, we cannot truly believe in Him to be changed radically on a spiritual level whereby God changes our heart, mind, and lives (i.e. to be born again).

I believe the Jew that was craving the physical and not the spiritual needed to labor in studying God’s Word, and in seeking after God with all their heart (and not a half hearted attempt).

2 Timothy 3:15
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”

Jeremiah 29:13
“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”

But when you read verse 27, this labor is said to be a gift.

“Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:”

This is the work of God not our own work. It’s God’s drawing to believe in God’s grace (Which is not of works done on our own).

Even more direct is what Jesus says in John 6, a very good teaching on these things.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Even more direct is what Jesus says in John 6, a very good teaching on these things.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

I have come to this thread late... obviously.

I appreciate what you have replied. Just a quasi-unrelated......

I just have one small question in vs 65.... " And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Would the proper interpretation be that those who came and were accepted were those that were predestined OR would they be the ones whose hearts and faith were known to God were permitted to come?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

James is calling out people who claim they have faith. But they are hearers of the word not doers

He is telling them to test their faith is it real saving faith or mere belief (even demons believe there is one God. Yet tremble).

He uses Abraham as an example Abraham claimed to have faith. Yet we are told Abraham proved his faith by his works

You can’t say you have faith in someone but never do anything they ask. This just proves you claimed faith was dead. It was a deceived faith and no faith at all. It was dead

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have come to this thread late... obviously.

I appreciate what you have replied. Just a quasi-unrelated......

I just have one small question in vs 65.... " And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Would the proper interpretation be that those who came and were accepted were those that were predestined OR would they be the ones whose hearts and faith were known to God were permitted to come?

We could. But then Jesus would contradict himself as he said earlier it is the will of the father that all who see and believe

The difference between the two groups was belief or unbelief

 

[Scott Downey]

I have come to this thread late... obviously.

I appreciate what you have replied. Just a quasi-unrelated......

I just have one small question in vs 65.... " And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Would the proper interpretation be that those who came and were accepted were those that were predestined OR would they be the ones whose hearts and faith were known to God were permitted to come?

I read it as it says. As you wrote, the first, not the second.
To me, God must grant you to come to Christ. And your belief in Christ, God granted.
God as prime mover, directed to the particular man, man responds positively, receiving Him., as God has changed their heart.


Phillipians 1, also says this same thing

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

We could. But then Jesus would contradict himself as he said earlier it is the will of the father that all who see and believe

The difference between the two groups was belief or unbelief

It is the will of the Father that all who see and believe....

is not the same as

It is the will of the Father that all see and believe.... leaving out the who changes the meaning...

John 6:40 NASB95
“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

It simply does not say that everyone will

 

[Taken]

James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

Agree with that statement.

Jesus Himself revealed the ONE WORKS a man CAN DO to RECEIVE Salvation…

THAT ONE WORKS? Heartfully Believe IN the Lord God.

Scripture Reveals WHEN SALVATION “shall be GIVEN”.

WHEN…AFTER a BODILY DEATH…
1) A Physical Death.
Or
2) A God Offered and Approved BODILY DEATH…Crucified WITH Jesus’ Body.

1) A Physical Death…REQUIRES the individual, by his OWN POWER (who BTW shares EARTH with, and is a constant TARGET of powerful wicked men AND powerful evil spirits, to encourage them to REJECT the Lord God). THESE individuals ARE multiple times IN Scripture “WARNED” to beware of Adversaries, Steer clear of them, and KEEP their Belief until the END of their Physical Life….THEN SHALL God Save them.

2) Crucified WITH Jesus…AFTER the ONE WORKS….(BELIEF)….REQUIRES a “SERVICE”.
The “SERVICE” IS the individuals “CONFESSION” of His Heartful Belief…AND…
“FREELY, WILLINGNESS” to “VOW” to GIVE his OWN LIFE, IN DEATH, Expressly Given unto the Lord God.
* THIS individual SHALL RECEIVE “Gods Gift of Salvation OF his SOUL, at that MOMENT…AND the “QUICKENING” (rebirth) OF his spirit, at that MOMENT.
* CALLED…Forgiven/ for past Unbelief
* CALLED…Covered (with Gods Light)
* CALLED…Sanctified (cleansed, set aside)
* CALLED…Saved (restored SOUL).
* CALLED…spirit Born Again (of Gods Seed)
* CALLED…A Reasonable Service
* CALLED…A Living Sacrifice
* CALLED…IN Christ
* CALLED…Perfected IN Christ
* CALLED…Righteous
* CALLED…A member of Christ’s Church
* CALLED…Name ENTERED into the Lamb’s Book of Life.
* CALLED…Name REMAINS, (never blotted out) of Gods Book of Life
* CALLED…Overcome evil
* CALLED…The Bride of Christ
* CALLED…Prepared FOR Rapture
* CALLED..UP to the Clouds/Air
* CALLED…FOREVER WITH the Lord God
* CALLED…SEALED
* CALLED…son of God
* CALLED…To serve in Christ’s 1,000 yr Earthly Kingdom
* CALLED…Forever Occupant of the Lord Gods Kingdom…(Barrier OPENED)…MAKING, ON EARTH, AS it IS IN Heaven;
Gods Kingdom, (Evil, Wickedness, Death, Disease, Pain, Afraid, Sorrow, Deceptions, Ignorance, IS MADE MOOT, VOID, Eradicated.)
* AND ALL SHALL “SEE” the Lord God…
AS HE IS….Spirit.

“WORKS” “NOT unto SALVATION”… ??

These ARE WORKS a man DOES…
** To “GLORIFY” God…”GLORIFY Gods NAME.”
These ^^ are the WORKS James was TEACHING

WORKS (also) a man DOES…
** To “DEGRADE” God…”Degrade Gods NAME”

*** GOD HAS PROMISED TO “REWARD” ….
EVERY man…
ACCORDING TO that mans “WORKS”.

IF a man HAS Exalted God and His Name…
IF a man HAS Degraded God and His Name…

God HAS a Consequence FOR EACH.
The Consequence FOR EACH SHALL be Given to EVERY man…
BY the Son of Man
WHEN
The Son of Man Returns

Prov.24
[12] If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?


Matt.16
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


WHY is Glorifying God (as James) impress…IMPORTANT?

ManKIND was created and made FOR Gods Pleasure and Gods Glory.
It is Gods PLEASURE that His manKIND creations …. GLORIFY GOD.

Isa 43:
[7] Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is the will of the Father that all who see and believe....

is not the same as

It is the will of the Father that all see and believe.... leaving out the who changes the meaning...

John 6:40 NASB95
“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

It simply does not say that everyone will

No

It says that everyone who sees and believes will have eternal life

He said the same thing in chapter 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.