Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon

[Behold]

Reader.

Lets get into some Bible Basics : Class.

= "How to Rightly Divided"...the scriptures.


1.) The BIBLE, is a book of progressive Revelation, regarding what God is doing with mankind, at any given time, from beginning to end.

And the first thing to understand, is that this changes.... and changes again.

= The Bible is REVEALING< what God has done, what God is doing, and what God is going to do later.

2.) Right now, God is doing this..> : "The time of the Gentiles'......and Paul is the "Apostle TO the Gentiles".
This is why Paul's epistles are "most" of the Epistles, and Paul's doctrine is : Church Doctrine.

3.) The KEY to understanding the NT, regarding the Epistles, is to comprehend that ALL NT verses, that "happened before the Cross was raised".. must now be seen IN LIGHT of the Cross, as the Cross is the TRANSITION< from the OT.. into the NEW Covenant , NT.

When we read the ""Acts of the Apostles"".....we see some changes taking place within the understanding of the Apostles...... We see that in the Beginning of Acts, they have NO understanding being taught that is "The Gospel of the Grace of God", and that is because until PAUL showed up, this did not exist.

Q.) Why do "heresies", exist, within : "Christianity". ?

2 >: main Reasons.

A.) The Devil creates theology using people who are perceived as teaching Truth, because they are clever devils.

But the larger reason, the more universal reason, is because the Christian, is pointing verses at themselves, that are not for the Body of Christ.
And....Most of the time, these are verses that came BEFORE The Lord's Cross was raised, so, most of those verses are for the JEW, (House of Israel), and not the Christian, regarding DOCTRINE.

B.) Prophetic verses and Symbolic verses, are often falsely taught as "Literal", and that is always going to be a Theological Train Wreck.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I would say that justification, in general, comes without a humble and contrite heart.
"While we were yet sinners..." Christ justified us.

You're right. Certainly, a humble and contrite heart is also an undeserved gift from God. Nothing we could pride ourselves on.

My point, in the context of our discussion, is that the tax collector was not justified because he had verbally recognized Jesus using any formula, or had adhered to doctrines A, B or C. Actually, it is likely that the tax collector could have erroneous ideas about the Messiah. It is likely that he didn't know how to interpret the prophecies. It is likely he was not religious at all. He was a tax collector. What Jesus stressed in the story is that God doesn't reject a person who comes to Him with contrite heart.

My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise. (Psalm 51:7)

Our justification is not a reward for a a humble and contrite heart. (salvation by works)

By the same token, our justification is not a reward for pronouncing a sentence (salvation by works)

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

3.) The KEY to understanding the NT, regarding the Epistles, is to comprehend that ALL NT verses, that "happened before the Cross was raised".. must now be seen IN LIGHT of the Cross, as the Cross is the TRANSITION< from the OT.. into the NEW Covenant , NT.

When we read the ""Acts of the Apostles"".....we see some changes taking place within the understanding of the Apostles...... We see that in the Beginning of Acts, they have NO understanding being taught that is "The Gospel of the Grace of God", and that is because until PAUL showed up, this did not exist.

Hi, Behold

I think all letters from Paul (and other apostles) must be interpreted in the light of the Gospels.
Paul was an apostle of Jesus. Jesus was not an apostle of Paul.
It is Jesus, and not Paul, the cornerstone. Do you agree?

So, in matters of doctrine, and in matters of our daily life, it would be wiser to study first the Gospels, and observe carefully what Jesus said and did. Then, and only then, we can resort to the other books of the New Testament.
If there is any difficulty in understanding Paul, then we should go back to the Gospels, over as over, as needed.

 

[Behold]

Hi, Behold

I think all letters from Paul (and other apostles) must be interpreted in the light of the Gospels.

Much of the "Gospels' is the biography of Jesus, that came before The Cross, that was the birth of Christianity.

Paul was an apostle of Jesus. Jesus was not an apostle of Paul.

Jesus said this to the 11 Apostles, before He ascended ... "i have many things to say/tell you, but you are not able to receive them NOW".

Then Jesus ascended.........

NEXT">..

A.)""" Paul is a chosen vessel unto ME.........for the "time of the Gentiles"... said JESUS from Heaven.

Christ The Lord didn't say this about Peter, or Jude, or John......

So, Paul came, and Paul wrote .... all of that which Jesus said to the 11....."you're not ready yet"..

Paul's Doctrine, is THAT Information.

It is Jesus, and not Paul, the cornerstone. Do you agree?

Jesus is the Savior. the "blood atonement"

Jesus is Salvation.
Jesus is Eternal Life
Jesus is "the Way and the TRUTH,"
Jesus is "THE Resurrection"
Jesus is the "Light of the World".
Jesus is "the Word made Flesh".
Jesus is the "Head of the body".

Paul is the NT teacher, who reveals to the Believer "Paul's doctrine", that Paul said, "no man gave this to me, it came from JESUS">.

= "Paul is a chosen Vessel unto me"... Jesus said from HEAVEN.

 

[Ritajanice]

You're right. Certainly, a humble and contrite heart is also an undeserved gift from God. Nothing we could pride ourselves on.

Amen!!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

A.)""" Paul is a chosen vessel unto ME.........for the "time of the Gentiles"... said JESUS from Heaven.

Christ The Lord didn't say this about Peter, or Jude, or John......

So, Paul came, and Paul wrote .... all of that which Jesus said to the 11....."you're not ready yet"..

Paul's Doctrine, is THAT Information.

"Paul is a chosen Vessel unto me"... Jesus said from HEAVEN.

Christ said many wonderful things about the other apostles as well. Isn't that so?
Remember Peter and Jesus reaction to his confession; Remember the "loved disciple" who would remain until his Coming, remember all of them being granted the keys of the kingdom, to forgive sins, to perform wonders even beyond those performed by Jesus.

Paul never claimed superiority over the apostles in doctrinal authority... and Peter or whoever wrote the epistle of Peter, didn't acknowledge any superiority for Paul in this regard.

Paul was chosen as a vessel. A vessel is a container. The water the vessel contains comes from Christ. So, my point is that unless we nurture our spirits from Jesus' words and acts, as described by Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, we won't be able to understand the doctrine taught by Paul.

Concepts like "faith", "justification", "grace", "salvation", "law", cannot be grasped until we learn how Jesus used and applied those concepts in his daily life.

 

[Behold]

Christ said many wonderful things about the other apostles as well. Isn't that so?

Jesus said something about a Roman soldier that was very complimentary.

Jesus said a lot of things..

Remember Peter and Jesus reaction to his confession; Remember the "loved disciple" who would remain until his Coming, remember all of them being granted the keys of the kingdom, to forgive sins, to perform wonders even beyond those performed by Jesus.

Remember Paul telling Peter that "his behavior was not according to the Truth"?

Remember Jesus told us from Heaven, that "Paul is a chosen vessel unto ME"... chosen for the "time of the Gentiles'.... as Paul is the only only one Jesus chose for this.

Jesus gave the Gospel to Paul, and Paul gave it to the rest of the Apostles. (Acts 15)

And if you understand the Cross, then you'll certainly realize that Jesus on the Cross is forgiveness.
He shed His blood for that purpose.


And Jesus didnt say that John would be alive at His coming......He told Peter that if that was to happen, then its not Peter's business to be worrying about everyone else.

So, that is a SCOLDING, not a Prophecy.

That is a "remember your place and do not try to run the show"... "peter".

"Stop being a busybody, Peter".

Paul never claimed superiority over the apostles in doctrinal authorit

Paul is the only Apostle who told the body of Christ.

"Be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".

Also, in 2nd Peter, ... Peter said of Paul's letters, that would eventually create most of the NT Epistles....that Paul's letters are :
"SCRIPTURE"... which means Peter was claiming that Paul's letters, that Peter had in his hands.... are equal to the TORAH.

Paul was chosen as a vessel. A vessel is a container.

In the context of Christianity, a "chosen Vessel" is an appointed one........one who has a Specific heavenly purpose.. to complete on earth.

Jesus defined Paul's as "apostle to the Gentiles".

Currently the Bride of Christ is in the "TIME of the Gentiles'....So Paul is the "Gentile Church" Apostle, the "chosen vessel".

IN case you dont realize it.......most Christians, who are created since the Cross of Christ, are GENTILES, not Jews.

"time of the Gentiles"
"Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles".
This is why Paul wrote most of the NT "Epistles".

Concepts like "faith", "justification", "grace", "salvation", "law", cannot be grasped until we learn how Jesus used and applied those concepts in his daily life.

Concepts like :

Justification
Sanctification
Propitiation
Redemption

These are NT concepts that are referring to the BLOOD ATONEMENT, that is the NEW Covenant,.

And Paul is who teaches about those, specifically., most of all.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Bible tells an amazing story of the death and resurrection of Jesus...understanding that in one’s spirit is mind blowing as the truth of Jesus is relayed to our spirit by His witness the Living Holy Spirit.

Only He and He alone can open up Gods written word to bring it to our understanding as it’s a spiritual book and we are His spiritual children....we communicate with God via His Spirit.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus said something about a Roman soldier that was very complimentary.

Jesus said a lot of things..

Sure, but I'm talking about the authority bestowed by Jesus, like in John 20:22-24.

Remember Jesus told us from Heaven, that "Paul is a chosen vessel unto ME"... chosen for the "time of the Gentiles'.... as Paul is the only only one Jesus chose for this.

Jesus didn't say Paul was his ONLY chosen vessel.
How did the Gospel reach Mesopotamia, Egypt, Persia or India? Paul didn't preach in those regions. Who was the "chosen vessel" to preach to Gentiles in those regions?

Jesus gave the Gospel to Paul, and Paul gave it to the rest of the Apostles. (Acts 15)

Paul never claimed to have given the Gospel to the rest of Apostles.
You are referring us to Acts 15. That chapter shows Paul and Barnabas taking a problem to Jerusalem so that the Twelve could resolve. So, Paul was making a consultation, which means he didn't have any doctrinal authority at all over the other apostles.
The resolution was issued by Peter and James, not by Paul.

And Jesus didnt say that John would be alive at His coming......He told Peter that if that was to happen, then its not Peter's business to be worrying about everyone else.

I agree with you, my brother. It was my mistake.

Paul is the only Apostle who told the body of Christ.

"Be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".

The only apostle? We don't know about that. We don't know what Thomas or Andreas or Bartholomew said to the early Christians.
Why shouldn't they also be examples to follow?
All apostles were called by Jesus to be an example for others. "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven". Paul himself urged Timothy to become an example for the Christian community.

More importantly, Paul didn't want Christians to identify themselves as "followers of Paul" (1 Corinthians 1:12,13 and 3: 3-6)

Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men. For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.

Also, in 2nd Peter, ... Peter said of Paul's letters, that would eventually create most of the NT Epistles....that Paul's letters are :
"SCRIPTURE"... which means Peter was claiming that Paul's letters, that Peter had in his hands.... are equal to the TORAH.

I agree. That doesn't mean that Paul's letters are "more" Scripture than James' or John's or Peter's epistles, right?

These are NT concepts that are referring to the BLOOD ATONEMENT, that is the NEW Covenant,.

And Paul is who teaches about those, specifically., most of all.

Those teachings should be interpreted under the light of Jesus sayings and works, as recorded in the Gospels.
Don't put the cart before the horse.
For example, if you want to know how God forgives and justify the sinner, go to the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector. Read about the encounters of Jesus with sinners. Reflect on it, feed on it, and THEN, and only THEN, resort to Romans or Galatians.

Paul didn't invent Christianism. He took what Jesus revealed to him, and adapted it to the missionary work within a specific geography and culture. Bear in mind that Paul, as a pastor, a Sheperd, faced issues that were specific to the communities he founded. He addressed people with a Greek cultural background. For example, he had to address the conflict between Judaizing believers and Greek believers... . Understanding this context is key to interpret his teachings on salvation in Romans and Galatians, among other letters.

 

[ElieG12]

... the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures. ...

Both the Jewish Scriptures and the Christian Scriptures were carefully preserved through time to the present day.

What we read in our Bibles did not come from the air, but from manuscripts and writings preserved for a long time, and copied with great care to be preserved without being corrupted. It is true that along the way some letters were lost, some small details were changed... but they did not change the message of the Bible at all.

All those who study Textual Criticism (which as you say is different from what is called High Criticism) agree that the errors or changes produced by copying over time are of minor importance. Furthermore, by comparison of manuscripts and other methods it is not difficult to determine which writing is most likely the one originally written.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.
I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions
about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures.

I invite others to share their knowledge on the subject. The link below is the best thing I have read on the subject.
I plan to post a few quotes from it. Please offer your own. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

/

Actually, this is a really good topic! Well at least if you are a former Protestant, or maybe have been nonProtestant by birth. (Lots of ideological stuff going on when people pretend the Bible is the First Cause of Church everything when it is in fact a product of the ancient Church).


I would point to a few starting things to the origons of the Canon.

1) The Heretic Marcion, who was a kind of Gnostic to use that term loosely (believed the God of the OT was different than the God of the NT). He came out with his own Canon to promote his Faith. Unlike other small time heretics of his time, who had mostly small time cults, Marcion was a successful franchiser. He had one of the first really big Gnostic like churches, due to standardizing a number of things. So rather than using purely Gnostic Gospels, epistles and revelatory books he actually had the wisdom to use the same books Christians were using. He however had to pick the 10 ones that were useful for spreading his Faith, like the Gospel of John, and ignored other ones that were problematic for his message.

Anyway, Marcion unofficially got the ball rolling as far as getting people to thinking about a formal list of books they would want.

The Development of the Canon of the New Testament - Marcion

The Development of the Canon of the New Testament

www.ntcanon.org

2) Constatine was the other big cause for the Canon as we know it. Constantine was going to build a few dozen official Christian churches and wanted each of them to be equipped with a book of scripture for their services. So this brought up the question of which ones should make the cut as far as going into the Codexes. Codexes are the first ancient form of "book". They were a somewhat new invention not existing to sometime in the 200s. The previous modus operandi were just to use scrolls and papyrus etc.


Anyway, Constantine basically put the ball into motion, and it would take 75 years or so of discussion to arrive at the received New Testament. Constantines NT Canon would be much shorter, admitting the older, much more wildly held books, but holding off on a number of the Catholic epistles, and the book of Revelation initially. Some of those would be admitted later on and would form the NT Canon that we see in the Syriac Peshitta. But maybe 10 years after that we would get the NT Canon that we are aware of.


Anyway I think this is a really important topic for a number of reasons.

1) The first is the one I alluded to above that comes from some person's unique views of things like Sola Scriptura etc.

2) A really important principle of the early Church is Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. "The rule of worship, is the rule of belief", basically meaning that the Church's liturgical practices represent their doctrine as well. This is a principle that comes from ancient Israel where the prophetic revelations of King David became Psalms sung by Israel, but were often cornerstones of faith expressing not just proper Jewish piety, but also important key aspects of the nature of the Coming Messiah and Messianic future of the New Testament and beyond. We also see this principle at work in other times in ancient Israel, like the giving of the Shema to Israel, (the prayer "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord thy God is One", as well as other important customs you see around worship going back to the book of Exodus, even Genesis (praying facing East towards the rising sun, taking off your shoes on Holy Ground etc.)

3) The formation of the Canon back in the days of the Early Church was a bit of a "White List" to use that software term. A white list is a defense against viruses and malware that protects a computer by only allowing trusted sources and bars the rest to keep a computer infected. So the canon formation compared to the past format of the Church of just having lots of scrolls and ancient codex's was basically done to prevent heretical texts from being used in church, as a way of stopping the spread of heresy!


Ancient Manuscript differences etc.
Now as far as the Old Testament end of things goes, I will point to the fact that the Jews had 3 different lists of Holy books depending on which Jewish Group you were talking to namely Sadducees (Pentateuch only), the (Pharisee which mostly used the short Jewish Canon, except also likely Maccabees and a few other Deuterocanonicals, and the Essenes which used the short canon, Deuterocanonicals, and other Apocrypha texts.

In all actuality there really is no official closing of the Canon until around the time of the Talmud to Constantine. Judaism officially closed the Canon because of the rise of Christianity which they believed was heretical, blasphemous etc. Meanwhile Christianity only gets around to doing it officially after it became legalized, and people wanted handy standardized sources for worship, and to keep those pesky heretical texts out of the hands of the naive. But anyway you do get manuscript variations in different ancient manuscripts based on Ethnicity as different Christian peoples have different Christian traditions based on the Jews of the area that converted over into Christianity. So you see the Greeks, Ethiopians, Syriac and other Christians having extra books or less books depending on the ealier cultural heritage of the region because the Old Testament was "the Bible" of the ancient Church for the first few centuries until enough NT Canons could be copied, Christians largely had to preach the Gospel from the Old Testament church like saint Paul and Philip the Evangelist to the Ethiopian Eunuch etc.

 

[Episkopos]

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.
I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions
about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures.

I invite others to share their knowledge on the subject. The link below is the best thing I have read on the subject.
I plan to post a few quotes from it. Please offer your own. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

/

Shot out of a cannon? More like shot into a Canon. ;)

 

[Lizbeth]

Your initial claim was that God wrote the Bible.
This statement about Paul isn't helping your case.

/

2Ti 3:13-17

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


This was written back in the first century, regarding especially old testament scriptures. And the writings that Paul and other apostles wrote, expounded and gave insight that they received from the Holy Spirit into what the OT scripts were talking about. Scripture, including new testament writing, has been inspired by God. And I take notice here in this passage above, how knowing and following what the scriptures teach is being put forward as an antidote or safeguard regarding “evil men and seducers” and their deceptions.


2Pe 1:19-21

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


The scriptures themselves give witness to their trustworthiness and profitability..….which individual scrolls and writings were simply assembled into a single volume that we call the Bible.

 

[Lizbeth]

Your response is out of the silence of what Jack wrote. and is a put down on your part.

After reading your posts I can only assume that your theology is based on your ideas and not God's words given through the writers of the scriptures.

...and no doubt there is a purpose and agenda behind his OP.

I wonder if he'll come out and actually state what it is....or will he just continue to sow seeds of doubt regarding God's word, which is an agenda in itself.

 

[Lizbeth]

I think having a Bible in print has crippled us from hearing from God directly.

This is one of those things that may have an appearance of wisdom........but is it really..?.....since scripture itself says scripture is PROFITABLE for us, not crippling. If some people never hear from God directly I'm sure the bible isn't to blame but it is for the same reasons it has always been.

My concern is with those who claim the Bible is the ONLY way to hear from God.

Is that really your only concern with this? I wonder. Whether God's word is heard directly by us or was directly heard by holy men of God who then wrote it down..........it is still all the word of God. There is no competition between God's written word and His spoken word.......so I hope you are not trying to set up a false dichotomy of pitting one against the other......because that would be false and deceiving.

 

[St. SteVen]

Shot out of a cannon? More like shot into a Canon. ;)

I think that was how I wrote the topic title. - LOL (pun intended)
Thanks for joining us.

]

 

[St. SteVen]

Is that really your only concern with this? I wonder. Whether God's word is heard directly by us or was directly heard by holy men of God who then wrote it down..........it is still all the word of God. There is no competition between God's written word and His spoken word.......so I hope you are not trying to set up a false dichotomy of pitting one against the other......because that would be false and deceiving.

Have you ever heard the audible voice of God?

'

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Have you ever heard the audible voice of God?

No, but I have heard of mystics.

Visionaries and Visions

Visionaries and Visions, Mystics and Mysticism by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

www.therealpresence.org

 

[St. SteVen]

No, but I have heard of mystics.

Thanks for joining the discussion.
One doesn't have to be a mystic to hear the voice of God.

What do you suppose Jesus meant by this?

John 10:16, 27 NIV
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also.
They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. ...
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

]

 

[One 2 question]

This is one of those things that may have an appearance of wisdom........but is it really..?.....since scripture itself says scripture is PROFITABLE for us, not crippling. If some people never hear from God directly I'm sure the bible isn't to blame but it is for the same reasons it has always been.


Is that really your only concern with this? I wonder. Whether God's word is heard directly by us or was directly heard by holy men of God who then wrote it down..........it is still all the word of God. There is no competition between God's written word and His spoken word.......so I hope you are not trying to set up a false dichotomy of pitting one against the other......because that would be false and deceiving.

This is one of those things that may have an appearance of wisdom........but is it really..?.....since scripture itself says scripture is PROFITABLE for us, not crippling.

Unfortunately my use of the bible had this effect on me. This practice was more stunting my growth and preventing me from maturing.

Maybe like Paul's experience with using the Law. It was good, spiritual and a tutor. But when Christ came He made advancements to the law. 'You heard it said...' yet in addition to this He said,
'but I say.....'.

The scriptures were definitely of benefit to me but now they are no longer essential for me. I have a direct relationship with a living Person that has advanced me beyond what God had previously revealed 2000 - 4000 years ago.

The bible had become my safe, secure place where I could seek God's thoughts on certain things. But it was extremely limited in what information it provides. Again, like the Law, it is good, helpful, beneficial, profitable and points us to God.

But it is of little value if we as sheep don't go to the one it points to and have a relationship with the Shepherd and hear His voice.

I'd encourage everyone to consider inviting the Spirit of Truth to add to the scriptures, just as Jesus did, Peter, John, Paul and many down through the centuries since the Spirit was sent to us to lead us into all truth. The Jesus of history said this.

He also said, Why seek you the living amoung the dead? Jesus has risen and sits at the Father's side dispensing truth to His Spirit so that He can download this into us. I go to the Living Source and get words of life from Them.

Jesus of the past said of (points to) Jesus of the future, I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Jhn 16:12-15

I'm so glad that I have a direct relationship with the Living Jesus Who communicates with me beyond the scriptures, beyond the bible. I'm glad I am free to experience truth outside and beyond the bible and have additional truth that has caused me to love my Creators more and to become more like Them.

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. Jhn 5:37 -40

This is my encouragement to everyone. Come to the Living Christ Who Father positioned at His side in heaven. Or at least, consult the Spirit Who He has sent to us on earth. Please, please don't ignore Him Who lives in you. Hear His voice. Heed His voice and experience the joy this relationship brings.