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It depends on what you mean by 'of course'.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Are you in the Wilderness?
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It depends on what you mean by 'of course'.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Hi
The HW believer, lives the crucified life in reality not just a position, whereby they are dead to sin, their passions, and the world through the power of the Holy Spirit which is not in full force in the training period. They truly have the new nature, which means that total obedience is what comes naturally. They are no longer 'prone to wander'.
God is not a respecter of persons so yes all.
Hi Wynona! If we follow the Scriptures we will seek the Lord until He visits us and empowers us to walk as Jesus walked. Jesus said that these would be few indeed.
Through Christ we have ACCESS to God by grace through faith. Christ is available to all. With Him all things are possible.
Don't be quick to incorporate strange doctrine Wynona. There is technically No such thing as a 'higher' walk. You only have one walk as you have one life IN BOTH the spirit of a new seed, in this world, with our mortal bodies. We cannot shrug the the body or the world's influence off completely. Our walk will always be tainted.....don't let others tell you otherwise, and mislead you.
Now, as we mature in this one walk of ours, not of any 'lower' or 'upper' or 'higher' walk or calling, as I just said, we grow to drive our soul more inline with God's will with the aid of the new Spirit to the life and mind of Christ. We get much closer to God, and it becomes more of a habit in our lives, as we shrug of the common sins we used to commit, over time. We confess these REAL sins (many manufacture things in their lives as sin, and they are not at all...another device of the evil one and of ourselves...for another discussion).
As a believer, we are designed to live much more closer to God in the Spirit. This is our ONE upper/lower calling, if you will. Like hills and valleys in our one life, we should stay and keep our souls more in the 'high' country. This is our goal, to be Christ-like with his mind, more over time as a growing habit. It comes easier for some than others, as we have to still seek God's will, through Christ, by serious sincere prayer, confession of REAL since as the Spirit determines and not us, and by being spiritually inspired to understand more of scripture. We in-turn, exhibit the spirits and its fruits they bring, of God, including the 'fear (deep reverence and awe) of God' (one of seven spirits we possess) as the SEAL and basis for a believer's living. For another discussion....
This 'higher walk' is defined by some by deliberately manipulating and taking much liberty in the interpretation of scripture in both the OT and the NT. It is truly founded on sand. For example, by manipulating the events of Enoch who was taken out of this world, some fancy its Hebrew to English translation as the action word 'translation,' that Enoch was translated and not taken out. It fits in nicely to their intended goal, with the flick of a hand, to force this word upon and into say Pauls' writings and say as Enoch was translated in his now higher walk as Paul's upward calling , which this phrase is in scripture, means WE TOO can be also translated into the Kingdom. Viola, we now have a 'higher' calling as Enoch did. This is the lie! And not only that, they say they have experienced this translation in their life as proof, or 'real' testimony. Then once they make this idea and jump in, mistranslating using with DIFFERENT CONTEXTS in various scripture, it then becomes part of their foundation in their personal doctrine. They they build it up further by tinkering with terms like 'righteousness' and holiness to fit their new-founded story line' of now a so-called 'lower' and so-called higher' walk.
Stay away from such people and their strange doctrines Wynona.
So these supernational Zen moments, hours or days of living at the apex of one's soul life, in the realm of the Spirit, is temporary. It is NOT a SPECIAL gifted supernational event only for some and not others. It is how we 'walk' Wynona, with the Spirit. It can then provide us glimpses of living in the Kingdom today in this body and the world, and it's still a flawed view.
Just rely on what the Spirit is saying to you everyday of your life as we desire to listen and drawn to do so, and cooperate/obey, and grow
Hope this helps...
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I never said I believed in the higher walk. I just wanted to know how difficult and exclusive Episkopos considers it to be.
Ask Epi this question.
I just said in my last post to you, this 'holy experience' is not exclusive to any believer. And then being really close to God in our walk, habitually, and realizing at times we are in this state, then what does that do or say about our salvation walk? Does it make us any more saved by this 'high' walk?
Some say that God calls these types of believers, saints, or the elect. And then what is called a believer who is neither of these two choices, an unbeliever?! And what is the criteria or how is this sainthood or the elect measured or qualified, how does one become one of the chosen ones or the qualified ones? By say 50% or more of our life in the realm of the holy Kingdom walk that we cannot measure ourselves, or and can only somehow sense at times. I see no criteria of this sort in scripture at all.
This was part of Paul's major concern that he could never truly gauge his salvation performance in his walk. So he draw an extreme metaphor, of him running a race to the finish line, to ensure he was qualified to get the prize. And then to what end; being saved as just 'basic', barely saved, a spiritually lazy lifer, of a believer, or as a saint or an elect. As all three to me are equivalent. Some say they are titles for different 'levels' of salvation. Are there levels of salvation? It really makes you want to reread scripture to find what all these terms really mean, right?
Is there such as thing as being 'less' saved, or even unsaved because we never or rarely have experiences this closeness experience in our walk? I just know that if we seriously are walking the walk and not just speaking the words associated with it in scripture, we shall eventually be closer to God in/through Christ's spirit. That is our goal.
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I believe there are. It would take awhile to fully explain but based on Jesus' parables, you can enter the Kingdom of heaven only to get weeded out by angels later.
We are all seated in heavenly places the moment we decide to believe in Jesus. I just don't think all of us will stay once the sorting process ends.
Personally I think we can have all sorts of experiences in our walk in Jesus, and that God is able to give grace to enable us to stand, and that we don't need to put limits on what He can or might do.
I've seen in my life that He is able to give an effortless and unreproachable walk in Jesus. But I also happen to think that His general intent for us is that we mature into such a walk. I think that in my case He gave me a glimpse ahead, blessing my walk for a season, to encourage me in what can be possible. I think there is a difference in what God simply blesses us with, and what we have to choose for ourselves, and to endure through the difficulties in working out those choices.
God is able to touch me an remove my addiction, and if it's bad enough, He may do that, I've seen it. Other times, He assures me that this kind of release won't come, that I have to choose, and work through it. In all cases He knows what is best for me.
I've come to believe that trying to keep ourselves clean so we aren't rejected from salvation in the end is the backwards approach. I believe this kind of thinking works against us, making us keep our eyes on ourselves, which makes our walk more difficult, less successful in working righteousness.
For me, this is a key passage:
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
We want to live pure lives, yes?
We purify ourselves when we have "this hope", and that hope is defined:
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
We know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him.
There is no wiggle room here. If we are children of God now, we know that we'll be like Him when He appears. There is no place for loss. All who are God's children now, will become like Him when He appears.
There is another like it:
Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.
If we are citizens of heaven now, Jesus will transform our bodies to be like His when He comes. Again, no wiggle room, of the one thing is true - you are a citizen of heaven - the other will be true - your body will be transformed to be like His.
But going back to 1 John 3 for a moment, he who has this hope purifies himself. Knowing that when Jesus comes He will make you to be just like Him, this takes the burden off our shoulders to "keep ourselves saved". We can know Jesus has us safe, and will complete His good work in us.
Knowing that we will in fact be fully transformed to be like Him when He comes releases us to walk in a complete faith, trusting Him for literally everything, knowing we don't make even the slightest contribution towards our salvation other than trusting in Jesus.
Philippians 3:8-11 LITV
8) But, no, rather I also count all things to be loss because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them to be trash, that I might gain Christ
9) and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness of Law, but through the faith of Christ, having the righteousness of God on faith,
10) to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, having been conformed to His death,
11) if somehow I may attain to a resurrection out of the dead.
Not looking to ourselves to "keep saved" we release ourselves into the power of God, the power of Christ's resurrection, which works in us mightily. There is no limit to what God can do in us.
How many times did Jesus say the words, "Be it to you according to your faith"? Be believing!
Much love!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Epi, just a question ,when you say higher walk, do you mean a higher Spiritual walk with the Lord?
After all we have been Born Of The Spirit, therefore a supernatural/ spiritual Living event, when our spirit is birthed into the Spirit Of God, just as His word says “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ I understand that perfectly in my spirit..
Anyway just my thoughts.
My road has been very lonely to be honest...I wouldn’t change it though, the biggest Honour and Privilege of my life when God via His Living Holy Spirit made my spirit Born Again.
After all we have been Born Of The Spirit, therefore a supernatural/ spiritual Living event, when our spirit is birthed into the Spirit Of God, just as His word says “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ I understand that perfectly in my spirit..
Anyway just my thoughts.
My road has been very lonely to be honest...I wouldn’t change it though, the biggest Honour and Privilege of my life when God via His Living Holy Spirit made my spirit Born Again.
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And yet much what gives us reassurance is. the same: we do more things that please God and sin less.
You say we get there easier by knowing we don't contribute anything to our salvation other than trusting in Jesus.
This is the mindset I was taught for years and Ive wasted a lot of time quoting Scriptures that people aren't ultimately interested in. Im not saying that to be mean either. Most of us are introduced to Christianity through a church, discipleship program, or starter book of some kind, not Scripture only. I wasn't always moved by pinpoint biblical accuracy either.
What you did say is that trusting Jesus for your salvation without your own effort allows you to focus on righteousness and not staying clean to keep your salvation.
You and I agree that righteousness is the goal then. Sin and righteousness aren't the same thing. We need the promises and the warnings. The rod and the staff. Goodness and severity. We need both.
I need Jesus to finish the race. Do I overcome sin by abiding in myself? Do I grow by listening to recordings of my own thoughts? Do I claim that I can enter heaven without Jesus' blood erasing the debt I owed to God for my sinful life?
That'd be ridiculous. But people are so convinced that effort is unspiritual, that people talk as if doing good works is the same as denying Jesus and claiming we are somehow good enough to do everything on our own.
I don't trust people's beliefs on what helps them be righteous. I don't trust the churches of today. They let me down big time---not even always because they wanted to help me please God. But because they know this is the hot message of today. That its what people want to hear. That it makes them feel reassured. That it makes them emotional and willing to give their money.
They didn't tell me about the warnings and how we know Jesus by keeping His commandments. I was stuck with no fruit, addicted to porn, lust, and vanity.
They said to rest in the finished work of the cross. That's not in Scripture. And it didn't help. It didn't assure me. But following all Scripture and abiding in Jesus did. The fear of the Lord helped me start bearing fruit. That gave me all the assurance I needed.
Well my short answer to your post. And I'm really serious as I can be here Wynona.
Those weeded out were never genuine believers in the first place. They were the chaff, those that just outwardly professed this faith only as a popular feel-good religion, the fakers, who loves to cling around the real believer all their lives as if it would allow them in the Kingdom just by association. There are many on this site that are chaff, truly!
Read the parable of the 10 virgins that covers my reply very well. Five were real believers and allowed into the wedding...the other 5 were the chaff....they wanted Jesus to open the door and allow them in based on their association/recognition of/with him and other real believers. They never had the Spirit of God, it was absent...
There are no levels of salvation. Either you are being saved or you are not Wynona. And a real believer knows this inside of themselves.
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I'd sooner say my goal is holiness. With holiness comes righteousness. Holiness is to live only according to God's purpose. If I'm doing that my thoughts and feelings as well as actions will be righteous.
My real goal is Jesus Himself. Without holiness I'm not able to enjoy the intimacy with Jesus that I can with holiness. Holiness isn't something I seem to be able to get my fingers on for it's own sake. Holiness comes to me as I'm consciously drawing near to God.
Jude 1:21 KJV
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
I'm looking for His mercy as He has promised me that He will show me mercy. Without mercy I am lost, and He has promised He will Never leave me, Never forsake me. I know that He's not only forgiven me, but He's made me a new creature, created patterned after Himself, in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4).
One promise that is very dear to me is this one:
Hebrews 12:10-11 KJV
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
He chastens us - trains as one would a child - so that we may be partakers of His holiness, and when He's done we will have the peaceable fruit of righteousness.
Paul acknowledges in 1 Corinthians 4 that he's not a fit judge of himself, and that Jesus will judge him when He comes. I don't always know what is right for me, and even knowing I don't always do it. God has promised that He's chasten me as needed, with good result. And I've experienced this in some major ways. I love Him so much more for it!
While I understand this, I disagree, because we can by the strength of our character make changes in our lives to do things better. I find my true assurance is that there is Someone I know. This Someone is a Spirit, I cannot see Him, touch Him. But He is with me, in me, I know Him like I know other people, though He is not at all like other people, or like me. I know He loves me as over the years He has worked much in me, in my life, that only someone who truly loves me would.
And this is what the Bible tells us.
1 John 3:24 KJV
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 4:13 KJV
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Romans 8:15-16 KJV
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Our true guarantee is that the Holy Spirit, Who is the seal of God's ownership of us, has been given to us. This seal of ownership . . . It's God's. We are not allowed to violate it, no one is. And we are sealed unto the day of redemption. That's God's intent for His seal, to secure us until that day.
1 John 3:18-23 KJV
18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19) And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Failing to love others is failing to walk in holiness, because God's purpose for us is to love others. Loving others in truth gives us confidence, assures are hearts, we "feel" it. It's directly after this passage that John wrote our knowledge, not assurance, or confidence, but knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit.
And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
I'd sooner say our rest is to be reconciled to God in Christ, and I stand in that. I'm completely, fully, and forever reconciled to God. Jesus will never leave me nor forsake me, and I know that. He ever lives to make intercession for me, there is nothing that can take me away from Him.
I have a friend who once said, "I began to understand the fear of the Lord when I realized how much He can mess with my life." For me, the real fear isn't of rejection, but of falling short, of failing to fulfill my purpose, and failing to draw as close to God as I can.
I don't see Him now but I will, and I will stand before Him to be judged. And then I'll know what He has to say about me, with certainty! I don't pretend to know what He will say! I do know that there will be no pretense, just honesty. I know He is working His ways into me. The real question is, am I truly working into my life - my thoughts, feelings, and actions - all that He has worked into me? He knows how hard I am or am not trying.
I believe in making a great an effort as we are able. That effort should be to not come up short of all He desires from us. But to put that effort towards providing some additional salvation beside what Jesus Himself provides, I believe that gets us pointed in the wrong direction.
I feel there is more I could say but I've said so much already, God bless your heart!!
Much love!
Amen. I believe we just are to do all we can at whatever stage of growth we are at and not worry too much in the beginning about whether it's of the Spirit or of our own selves. Loving the Lord our God will all our heart and mind and strength. God accepts the efforts of little children if that is all they can do while they are still children. Thinking of it as being like when our children are small and give us a "homemade" birthday present, we appreciate their effort as their expression of love and don't discourage them from that. As they start growing and maturing more they start realizing that maybe it would be better to use some of their allowance to "buy" something professionally made for mom and dad from the store. ;)
Likewise as we grow in the Lord it is HE who will help us start to delineate and discern between our own flesh and His spirit and we will start to seek Him for more of His Spirit.....especially as we come across situations in our path that we realize we are just insufficient of our own selves to deal with in a Godly way, so we seek the Lord for the Helper's help...etc.
It occurs to me that the parable of the ten virgins is like the parable of the man who started to build a tower but hadn't counted the cost and so didn't have sufficient to finish it....that is like the unwise virgins. It costs us to follow the Lord and increase in the Spirit. That extra oil has to be "bought" by us as we go along.....we pay a price for it....it costs us to build the tower, to obey the Lord. Like Paul saying he was filling up that which is behind of the sufferings of Christ.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The only people who "come short of entering into the Promised land.. the"""" Kingdom realm of the Spirit", are people who are not born again.
As once you are born again, you are "translated from Darkness.... to LIGHT"........and that is why the born again is now "seated in Heavenly places"... "In Christ".... "ONE with God"...
Reader,
The way you enter the KOG, or "kingdom realm" is only one way..
A.) Jesus says...."no person comes to the FATHER but by ME"... and that is to become '"IN CHRIST" and 'ONE with God""....
Like this...
Jesus said...>"YOU.... (the unbeliever) must be BORN AGAIN"... .and once you are, you have entered the Kingdom, having been born again Spiritually, into it.
There is no other way to enter the Spiritual Kingdom of God, then by a Spiritual Birth.
This is why every born again believer, is become.."THE TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit".
So, when you hear a false teaching that is designed to cause to you try to earn the Kingdom, or strive to enter into a Spiritual Kingdom... by works that you try to do... then you are hearing false doctrine, that actually denies the only WAY that God provides as the only entrance into The Spiritual Kingdom of God.
Find it Here... John 14:6
Jesus said..>"No person comes to the FATHER.....but by ME"..
Find it Here...
A.) THE Cross of Christ
Find it Here.
AA.) Faith in Christ
Find it Here.
AAA.) "You must be BORN Again"... Jesus said., and that is not by water, but "by my SPIRIT, sayeth THE LORD".
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Once you become Born Again, your spirit comes to life, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “
You were once in darkness you are now in Gods light.
Set free from sin...and have become right before God.
We are in the righteousness of Christ.......Born Again of incorruptible seed.
I agree with Wynona we still have to do our bit....the Holy Spirit is our helper he gives us the strength to carry on....we look to him, we can’t do anything without his strength.
You were once in darkness you are now in Gods light.
Set free from sin...and have become right before God.
We are in the righteousness of Christ.......Born Again of incorruptible seed.
I agree with Wynona we still have to do our bit....the Holy Spirit is our helper he gives us the strength to carry on....we look to him, we can’t do anything without his strength.
I think of it that it HAS been given to us by PROMISE and that is why it's called the PROMISED land. However as long as we have life in these mortal bodies we are also running to ATTAIN it. Apprehending, ie, bringing down to our "earth" (earthen vessels) - what has been laid up for us in heaven. It is entered by FAITH (ie, in the Spirit). We HAVE entered it in one way when we came to FAITH, and yet in another way we are also on our WAY there, in process of enterING. And anytime we have an experience of walking in the Spirit, we are THERE.
The flesh gets in the way.........so the purpose of the wilderness is to weaken and slay our flesh. Which it does little by little. That is the picture of the Israelites dying for 40 years (their flesh) so that only what remained could enter, ie, their "children"...giving birth to spirit. Because flesh cannot enter.
Behold
Well-Known Member
All the born again are IN The KOG.
"born again" into it.
We cant do that........as that Spiritual place, is only attainable by a Spiritual Birth.
This is why Jesus told us...."you must be born again"... as without this Spiritual Birth, that places the Believer, 'in Christ", there is no way to get there from here.
What we do in our body , after we are born again into the KOG...is we "present our body as a living sacrifice to God, which is our reasonable SERVICE".
And that is all it is......its just "service", its just discipleship.
Its the "new Creation In Christ" who is "seated in heavenly places"... (THE KOG)>...is down here, doing good works, that represent who we have become UP THERE... already, as "in Christ"., "one with God'.
You are confusing, as SO MANY do, the first step in a race with the race itself.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Entering into the KOG< is to be born again....and that is not a "race" that is a Spiritual Birth.
Then, down here, we have now begun the Race as a "new Creation" in Christ, empowered by the Spirit of Christ to live a perfected discipleship.
The DISCIPLESHIP, is not the Salvation, its just the lifestyle of obedience and discipline that is related to God empowered Christianity.
Paul said He "finished his Course", and people who are not born again, or who are terribly deceived about what it means to be a CHRISTian, teach that as.."i have finished my SALVATION">
But Paul didnt say He finished His SALVATiON, and that is because Paul's Salvation was FINISHED ON THE CROSS, and given by God as "the Gift of Salvation".
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