God Created the World out of... Monsters?

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Wick Stick

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At the beginning of Genesis 1, God forms the world out of waters that are "without form" and "void." You're probably familiar with this.

But are you familiar with the other story of creation in the Bible? Starting in Job 38, we have another accounting of creation in which God tells Job all about how He created the world - how He laid the cornerstone and foundations, how He restrained the seas when they burst forth, etc. This continues for a couple chapters, before the text takes a sudden turn in chapter 40.

Suddenly we have a story of subduing two monsters, the Behemoth and the Leviathan. The Behemoth is a monster that drinks up whole rivers. The Leviathan is a sea-monster with hard scales and sharp teeth that breathes fire.

And this starts to get interesting when we compare Job's monsters to the creation stories from other ancient cultures that lived around the Israelites -

In the creation story of Babylon (the Enuma Elish), their god Ea subdues Tiamat, a beast of primordial chaos whose body is waters and whose domain is the oceans. He then he takes its watery body and forms the land from it. He also slays Tiamat's lover, Absu (whose body is made of fresh water) and transforms this into a subterranean realm of water that he uses for His home. This is called the Abyss, taking its name from the slain Absu.

The most ancient and revered Greek writer, Hesiod, likewise recounts a great battle between Zeus and the titan Typhon - a great serpent-like monster who epitomizes storms and water. The titan is defeated and imprisoned deep underground...

The Hittites as well, have a myth of a battle between their chief god Teshub, and a great serpent-monster who rides the storms.

These are all variations of the same myth... and it looks like Job's monsters are a version of the same story. Job mentions the monsters with his creation account because they are related to creation. God creates the world from water... water monsters.

Going back to Genesis 1, remember those "waters" that are "without form" (Hebrew: Tohu) and "void?" (Hebrew: Bohu) It turns out that those words are related to those monsters. The Hebrew word for Behemoth is... Behemoth, and Bohu is a form of the same word.

A few chapters later, in Genesis 9, God brings the flood to destroy the world by opening the 'fountain of the deep.' That word DEEP in Hebrew is Tehowm, a variation of the same word 'Tohu.' The story is taking shape - this DEEP is more than a subterranean lake; this is one of those primordial monsters of water and chaos. The Hebrew Tehowm IS the Greek Typhon and the Babylonian Tiamat and Job's Leviathan.

A story is taking shape... In the beginning... God MADE the world by subduing these monsters, bringing order from chaos and land out of waters. And in Noah's day, when God intends to UN-MAKE the world, He unleashes the old monster from its underground prison. The whole world sinks back beneath the waves of primordial chaos for a season.

And then... God stops the waters, and sends the monster back underground. In Job 41, God indicates that he has made Leviathan his servant, put a hook in his nose to lead him as a beast subservient. In chapter 38 He tells us He 'shut up the seas with doors' and 'declared its place' and 'set bars' on it.

And perhaps we should read the story of Noah's flood as a creation story too? The former earth was UN-MADE by waters, and a new earth was RE-MADE from the waters, just as the first one.

@Rella ~ I am a woman
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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At the beginning of Genesis 1, God forms the world out of waters that are "without form" and "void." You're probably familiar with this.

But are you familiar with the other story of creation in the Bible? Starting in Job 38, we have another accounting of creation in which God tells Job all about how He created the world - how He laid the cornerstone and foundations, how He restrained the seas when they burst forth, etc. This continues for a couple chapters, before the text takes a sudden turn in chapter 40.

Suddenly we have a story of subduing two monsters, the Behemoth and the Leviathan. The Behemoth is a monster that drinks up whole rivers. The Leviathan is a sea-monster with hard scales and sharp teeth that breathes fire.

And this starts to get interesting when we compare Job's monsters to the creation stories from other ancient cultures that lived around the Israelites -

In the creation story of Babylon (the Enuma Elish), their god Ea subdues Tiamat, a beast of primordial chaos whose body is waters and whose domain is the oceans. He then he takes its watery body and forms the land from it. He also slays Tiamat's lover, Absu (whose body is made of fresh water) and transforms this into a subterranean realm of water that he uses for His home. This is called the Abyss, taking its name from the slain Absu.

The most ancient and revered Greek writer, Hesiod, likewise recounts a great battle between Zeus and the titan Typhon - a great serpent-like monster who epitomizes storms and water. The titan is defeated and imprisoned deep underground...

The Hittites as well, have a myth of a battle between their chief god Teshub, and a great serpent-monster who rides the storms.

These are all variations of the same myth... and it looks like Job's monsters are a version of the same story. Job mentions the monsters with his creation account because they are related to creation. God creates the world from water... water monsters.

Going back to Genesis 1, remember those "waters" that are "without form" (Hebrew: Tohu) and "void?" (Hebrew: Bohu) It turns out that those words are related to those monsters. The Hebrew word for Behemoth is... Behemoth, and Bohu is a form of the same word.

A few chapters later, in Genesis 9, God brings the flood to destroy the world by opening the 'fountain of the deep.' That word DEEP in Hebrew is Tehowm, a variation of the same word 'Tohu.' The story is taking shape - this DEEP is more than a subterranean lake; this is one of those primordial monsters of water and chaos. The Hebrew Tehowm IS the Greek Typhon and the Babylonian Tiamat and Job's Leviathan.

A story is taking shape... In the beginning... God MADE the world by subduing these monsters, bringing order from chaos and land out of waters. And in Noah's day, when God intends to UN-MAKE the world, He unleashes the old monster from its underground prison. The whole world sinks back beneath the waves of primordial chaos for a season.

And then... God stops the waters, and sends the monster back underground. In Job 41, God indicates that he has made Leviathan his servant, put a hook in his nose to lead him as a beast subservient. In chapter 38 He tells us He 'shut up the seas with doors' and 'declared its place' and 'set bars' on it.

And perhaps we should read the story of Noah's flood as a creation story too? The former earth was UN-MADE by waters, and a new earth was RE-MADE from the waters, just as the first one.

@Rella ~ I am a woman
clap.gifsmiley_cheerleader.gifclap.gif

read_smiley.gif re-reading Job.... TYVM
 
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Cassandra

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Oh, I think He was just telling Job about the things Job had seen that God made that are mighty.
At the beginning of Genesis 1, God forms the world out of waters that are "without form" and "void." You're probably familiar with this.

But are you familiar with the other story of creation in the Bible? Starting in Job 38, we have another accounting of creation in which God tells Job all about how He created the world - how He laid the cornerstone and foundations, how He restrained the seas when they burst forth, etc. This continues for a couple chapters, before the text takes a sudden turn in chapter 40.

Suddenly we have a story of subduing two monsters, the Behemoth and the Leviathan. The Behemoth is a monster that drinks up whole rivers. The Leviathan is a sea-monster with hard scales and sharp teeth that breathes fire.

And this starts to get interesting when we compare Job's monsters to the creation stories from other ancient cultures that lived around the Israelites -

In the creation story of Babylon (the Enuma Elish), their god Ea subdues Tiamat, a beast of primordial chaos whose body is waters and whose domain is the oceans. He then he takes its watery body and forms the land from it. He also slays Tiamat's lover, Absu (whose body is made of fresh water) and transforms this into a subterranean realm of water that he uses for His home. This is called the Abyss, taking its name from the slain Absu.

The most ancient and revered Greek writer, Hesiod, likewise recounts a great battle between Zeus and the titan Typhon - a great serpent-like monster who epitomizes storms and water. The titan is defeated and imprisoned deep underground...

The Hittites as well, have a myth of a battle between their chief god Teshub, and a great serpent-monster who rides the storms.

These are all variations of the same myth... and it looks like Job's monsters are a version of the same story. Job mentions the monsters with his creation account because they are related to creation. God creates the world from water... water monsters.

Going back to Genesis 1, remember those "waters" that are "without form" (Hebrew: Tohu) and "void?" (Hebrew: Bohu) It turns out that those words are related to those monsters. The Hebrew word for Behemoth is... Behemoth, and Bohu is a form of the same word.

A few chapters later, in Genesis 9, God brings the flood to destroy the world by opening the 'fountain of the deep.' That word DEEP in Hebrew is Tehowm, a variation of the same word 'Tohu.' The story is taking shape - this DEEP is more than a subterranean lake; this is one of those primordial monsters of water and chaos. The Hebrew Tehowm IS the Greek Typhon and the Babylonian Tiamat and Job's Leviathan.

A story is taking shape... In the beginning... God MADE the world by subduing these monsters, bringing order from chaos and land out of waters. And in Noah's day, when God intends to UN-MAKE the world, He unleashes the old monster from its underground prison. The whole world sinks back beneath the waves of primordial chaos for a season.

And then... God stops the waters, and sends the monster back underground. In Job 41, God indicates that he has made Leviathan his servant, put a hook in his nose to lead him as a beast subservient. In chapter 38 He tells us He 'shut up the seas with doors' and 'declared its place' and 'set bars' on it.

And perhaps we should read the story of Noah's flood as a creation story too? The former earth was UN-MADE by waters, and a new earth was RE-MADE from the waters, just as the first one.

@Rella ~ I am a woman
This is kinda out there. God created all of them--didn't have to subdue anything. God asks Job if Job can subdue Leviathan--He is not saying that He did. And to subdue His creation, all he needed to do is to speak the word. God tells Job that He alone controls Leviathan and Behemoth. These are master works of Creation. I hope you are just playing around with this.
Ps 104:26 1717122523817.jpeg
God formed him to play in the sea. He didn't have to subdue it in order to create the world.
 

Cassandra

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It is more lovely in the Message Bible:

Ps 104:26-30
What a wildly wonderful world, God!
You made it all, with Wisdom at your side,
made earth overflow with your wonderful creations.
Oh, look—the deep, wide sea,
brimming with fish past counting,
sardines and sharks and salmon.
Ships plow those waters,
and Leviathan, your pet dragon, romps in them.

Here is the Chapter reference
 

Jack

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It is more lovely in the Message Bible:

Ps 104:26-30
What a wildly wonderful world, God!
You made it all, with Wisdom at your side,
made earth overflow with your wonderful creations.
Oh, look—the deep, wide sea,
brimming with fish past counting,
sardines and sharks and salmon.
Ships plow those waters,
and Leviathan, your pet dragon, romps in them.

Here is the Chapter reference
I love comparing English Bibles! It brings out great details!
 

Wick Stick

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Oh, I think He was just telling Job about the things Job had seen that God made that are mighty.
The first time I read it, that's how I took it too. But there were some things about it that bothered me - mostly how the 2 'beasts' had attributes that don't belong to any real animal that we know of... drinking whole rivers, breathing fire, etc.

God asks Job if Job can subdue Leviathan--He is not saying that He did.
I don't buy that argument. God also asks Job if He created the earth or can ride the storms. Isn't God saying that He can do those things? I think He is.

And to subdue His creation, all he needed to do is to speak the word. God tells Job that He alone controls Leviathan and Behemoth. These are master works of Creation. I hope you are just playing around with this. Ps 104:26
I'm not playing around, but I also left out the final bit... Are these monsters literal? No, I don't think so... this is mythology. The monsters are fictional characters that represent literal ideas. They are figures representing chaos.

But there are real lessons to be learned about the creation and the nature of God. First, that the creation was accomplished by bringing order to chaos. Second, that the nature of God is to bring order to chaos. And if we are His children, then we should model that behavior as well.
 

ThePuffyBlob

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:oops: its actually different from you because when i read that verse i only heard praises for God
how amazing he truly is
how he designed the animals and humans and everytime i watch about how science explain the behavior of animals praises for God just keep pouring into my mind

its probably also because i searched for those monsters the leviathan in modern times is a whale
and i already read the revelation long before i started to read the book of matthew we all know that there are full of monsters in the book of revelation full of eye even in their wings

but does knowing those monsters help me increase my faith?
 

ThePuffyBlob

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and i think that God is telling job who are you to blame me do you know more than me? that is why when i read this verses i also realized that humans are nothing while God is everything
so lets just focus on God let us just elevate him while we humble ourselves
 

Wick Stick

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its probably also because i searched for those monsters the leviathan in modern times is a whale
A whale that has scales and claws, and breathes fire, huh? :sweatsmile:

but does knowing those monsters help me increase my faith?
Perhaps. If you understand that they are mythological representations of chaos, then it reveals something about the character of God - He is the One who brings order.
 
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Wick Stick

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and i think that God is telling job who are you to blame me do you know more than me? that is why when i read this verses i also realized that humans are nothing while God is everything
so lets just focus on God let us just elevate him while we humble ourselves
Yes, the book of Job is largely a theodicy, but there is no verdict in the culmination because no-one can be found fit to serve as a judge of God.
 

BlessedPeace

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At the beginning of Genesis 1, God forms the world out of waters that are "without form" and "void." You're probably familiar with this.

But are you familiar with the other story of creation in the Bible? Starting in Job 38, we have another accounting of creation in which God tells Job all about how He created the world - how He laid the cornerstone and foundations, how He restrained the seas when they burst forth, etc. This continues for a couple chapters, before the text takes a sudden turn in chapter 40.

Suddenly we have a story of subduing two monsters, the Behemoth and the Leviathan. The Behemoth is a monster that drinks up whole rivers. The Leviathan is a sea-monster with hard scales and sharp teeth that breathes fire.

And this starts to get interesting when we compare Job's monsters to the creation stories from other ancient cultures that lived around the Israelites -

In the creation story of Babylon (the Enuma Elish), their god Ea subdues Tiamat, a beast of primordial chaos whose body is waters and whose domain is the oceans. He then he takes its watery body and forms the land from it. He also slays Tiamat's lover, Absu (whose body is made of fresh water) and transforms this into a subterranean realm of water that he uses for His home. This is called the Abyss, taking its name from the slain Absu.

The most ancient and revered Greek writer, Hesiod, likewise recounts a great battle between Zeus and the titan Typhon - a great serpent-like monster who epitomizes storms and water. The titan is defeated and imprisoned deep underground...

The Hittites as well, have a myth of a battle between their chief god Teshub, and a great serpent-monster who rides the storms.

These are all variations of the same myth... and it looks like Job's monsters are a version of the same story. Job mentions the monsters with his creation account because they are related to creation. God creates the world from water... water monsters.

Going back to Genesis 1, remember those "waters" that are "without form" (Hebrew: Tohu) and "void?" (Hebrew: Bohu) It turns out that those words are related to those monsters. The Hebrew word for Behemoth is... Behemoth, and Bohu is a form of the same word.

A few chapters later, in Genesis 9, God brings the flood to destroy the world by opening the 'fountain of the deep.' That word DEEP in Hebrew is Tehowm, a variation of the same word 'Tohu.' The story is taking shape - this DEEP is more than a subterranean lake; this is one of those primordial monsters of water and chaos. The Hebrew Tehowm IS the Greek Typhon and the Babylonian Tiamat and Job's Leviathan.

A story is taking shape... In the beginning... God MADE the world by subduing these monsters, bringing order from chaos and land out of waters. And in Noah's day, when God intends to UN-MAKE the world, He unleashes the old monster from its underground prison. The whole world sinks back beneath the waves of primordial chaos for a season.

And then... God stops the waters, and sends the monster back underground. In Job 41, God indicates that he has made Leviathan his servant, put a hook in his nose to lead him as a beast subservient. In chapter 38 He tells us He 'shut up the seas with doors' and 'declared its place' and 'set bars' on it.

And perhaps we should read the story of Noah's flood as a creation story too? The former earth was UN-MADE by waters, and a new earth was RE-MADE from the waters, just as the first one.

@Rella ~ I am a woman
Job 41
 
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Wick Stick

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Job 41
Leviathan is in chapter 41... the Behemoth is in the last half of chapter 40. :)
 

ShineTheLight

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Are these monsters literal? No, I don't think so... this is mythology. The monsters are fictional characters that represent literal ideas. They are figures representing chaos.

They aren't mythological. The creatures God tells of to Job are real. A lot of things in the bible that God talks about gets called a myth. Even by so-called Chritians.
 

Wick Stick

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They aren't mythological. The creatures God tells of to Job are real. A lot of things in the bible that God talks about gets called a myth. Even by so-called Chritians.
It really doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing proposition where it comes to things in the Bible being literal. It's ok for some things to be figurative.

It just means that the people reading it need to use a little judgment. Or at least, find a tutor who can help them separate the two.