What is the "SIGN" of the Son of Man - Poll

[grafted branch]

Individually. But the verse is talking about the completeness of it.

There was a major earthquake off the coast of Antioch that caused a very destructive tsunami on December 13th 115 AD. Antioch was home base for the Roman army in it's campaign against Israel and it was ground zero for the Nicolaitan movement. This movement was named after Nicolas a convert to Judaism. His followers are the "antichrists" that John talks about that are "at work". Christ himself calls them out in Revelation 2 and 3 to the letters to the churches.

Acts 6:5
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:


Rev. 6:12-17
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Matthew 24:29-30
29 “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The descriptions of the 6th seal and Matthew 24:29-30 match up BUT they do not talk about the destruction of Jerusalem. In order to make these event apply to 70 AD, you have the "symbolize" the events described by Christ and John. Even the "hiding in mountains" have to be thought of as metaphor because there are no mountains in Jerusalem to hide in. This event happen AFTER the tribulation (after the destruction of Jerusalem) . So it happened after Jerusalem was defeated by Roman and the Jews and Christian were killed or brought back to Rome and crucified in the Roman circus.

Rev. 6:7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And [f]power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.(Roman Circus)

In 79 AD Mt. Vesuvius erupted in Italy and destroying 1/3 of the Roman empire. That eruption cause a major earthquake which shifted the landscape (every mountain and island was moved out of its place.) The mushroom cloud that was created by the volcano appeared as a scroll as if it is rolled up on itself. The ash produced darkened the sky, turning day into night. The only place people could hide from the falling lava rocks is in the caves near by. Ironically, this eruption happen during the Roman festival of Vulcanalia (Vulcan is the god of fire) when the neighboring cities would have been full of visitors.
This also happened right before Rosh Hashanah (the feast of trumpets).

Alright, if the sign of the Son of man is an astrological sign then this sign was also seen previously, correct?

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Also when you’re using Stellarium, what location are you using, Jerusalem? I didn’t download the software but did look at the sky from Jerusalem on 12/13/115 and to be honest I didn’t notice anything, I looked at Orion and there were no other planets in that constellation.

 

[akelch]

Alright, if the sign of the Son of man is an astrological sign then this sign was also seen previously, correct?

Correct, you will see the "sign" about every ~12 years BUT if the events happen like Christ said they would AND you see the sign at the same time THEN you know it was him.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

This was when Christ was speaking to the Pharisees which did not believe he was the Messiah. The only sign they would get is is death and resurrection.

Also when you’re using Stellarium, what location are you using, Jerusalem? I didn’t download the software but did look at the sky from Jerusalem on 12/13/115 and to be honest I didn’t notice anything, I looked at Orion and there were no other planets in that constellation.

Yes Jerusalem? The following pictures are the Sign of the Son of Man
115 AD - Jupiter the "King / Judgement" Planet is over Orion


79 AD - Mt. Vesuvius eruption - Jupiter again is over Orion


68 AD - Before the siege of Jerusalem
A blood moon was seen in the constellation Scorpio AND Jupiter with Venus and Mercury were over Orion.



The pictures can be misleading because some of these events took place in the day time so Orion and Jupiter would not be physically seen in day light. Only in the morning and evening.

 

[akelch]

Alright, if the sign of the Son of man is an astrological sign then this sign was also seen previously, correct?

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Also when you’re using Stellarium, what location are you using, Jerusalem? I didn’t download the software but did look at the sky from Jerusalem on 12/13/115 and to be honest I didn’t notice anything, I looked at Orion and there were no other planets in that constellation.

One of the most amazing discoveries I had was the "Double edge sword" from the mouth of the Lord in Revelation 1:16

Rev. 1:16
16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
In 65-66 AD Halley's comet was seen over Jerusalem. Josephus said it looked like a "double edge Sword"

Flavius Josephus - The War of the Jews
"Thus there was a star 1 resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year."

Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, Book VI, section 288

www.perseus.tufts.edu

The origin of Halley's comet came from the MOUTH of Orion. What are the chances of that?

 

[grafted branch]

One of the most amazing discoveries I had was the "Double edge sword" from the mouth of the Lord in Revelation 1:16

Rev. 1:16
16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
In 65-66 AD Halley's comet was seen over Jerusalem. Josephus said it looked like a "double edge Sword"
View attachment 45466
Flavius Josephus - The War of the Jews
"Thus there was a star 1 resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year."

Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, Book VI, section 288

www.perseus.tufts.edu

The origin of Halley's comet came from the MOUTH of Orion. What are the chances of that?
View attachment 45467

All this is interesting and I’ll keep these things in mind. Have you tried to see if any other events can be seen in the sky? For example the abomination of desolation, would this have been something that a person could’ve seen in the night sky as an indication of when to flee?

 

[Timtofly]

I think we are talking about two different ways of being “cast down” to the earth. I don’t see men literally thrown down to earth. But men brought low and on their knees—fallen. For example:
James 4:7-10 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

To me it’s an exchange when speaking of stars that fall in bringing low, or to be brought down. Another example is: casting down vain imagination and spiritual sickness in high places.

I’m not trying to convince you. I just shared another way I suspect “stars fall” from heaven.

The point is that these angels are literally the heavenly host who left their estate in rebellion to God. They were punished and brought low. I never said they were cast out of heaven by Satan.

A few verses later those same stars are cast out of heaven. But not by Satan, then either.

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Those same angels were the point of the symbolism of the dragon and a third of the stars. The theme did not change.

In Jude 1, Jude is not talking about men when he points to those angels. In Revelation, John is not pointing to men when he addresses those stars that followed Satan as the angels that rebelled. John is not talking about the tribes of Judah and that a third of Israel rebelled and followed Satan.

For one, way more than a third of Israel has denied their God and were deceived by Satan.

All I am saying is that the woman and the 12 stars represents Israel, because that is in reference to the dream Joseph had where the stars did represent his family. But John is not just addressing humans as brought low by Satan, but the historical deception of all of creation, including a third of the stars, the heavenly host (angels), along with earth's kingdoms throughout history as represented by the 6 other heads of the dragon.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The point is that these angels are literally the heavenly host who left their estate in rebellion to God. They were punished and brought low. I never said they were cast out of heaven by Satan.

A few verses later those same stars are cast out of heaven. But not by Satan, then either.

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Those same angels were the point of the symbolism of the dragon and a third of the stars. The theme did not change.

In Jude 1, Jude is not talking about men when he points to those angels. In Revelation, John is not pointing to men when he addresses those stars that followed Satan as the angels that rebelled. John is not talking about the tribes of Judah and that a third of Israel rebelled and followed Satan.

For one, way more than a third of Israel has denied their God and were deceived by Satan.

All I am saying is that the woman and the 12 stars represents Israel, because that is in reference to the dream Joseph had where the stars did represent his family. But John is not just addressing humans as brought low by Satan, but the historical deception of all of creation, including a third of the stars, the heavenly host (angels), along with earth's kingdoms throughout history as represented by the 6 other heads of the dragon.

We’re not understanding one another. There’s a huge disconnect which makes us go round and round. I didn’t mean to distress you.

something to consider. It’s only a thought and not a certainty but satan casting out those in heaven yet those in heaven leaving their first estate, drawn, away by their own lust —just sharing with you one perspective.

why can’t it be the same: satan cast them out and they are drawn away, and they left? For example back to the garden where three things take place: the tree is eaten of that man was not suppose to eat from: satan tempts, I can see how it could be said: satan drew or cast man out of the garden.(because it’s his actions that test man). Yet, I can also see how man leaves the garden: (failing the test, drawn away by his own lust). Yet, I can also see God cast man out of the garden. (Giving man over to a reprobate mind).

That may make no sense whatsoever. But in my mind …satan can cast those out of heaven by leading them to leave their first estate through their own lust, which then because they follow after their own lust —God cast them out of heaven giving them over to do those things which are not convenient. Whose fault is it? Satan drew, man led way, God cast away, giving them over? There an angst like the angst in Job—who harmed Job? Satan or God?

I feel we are going to continuously go round and round….if none of the above helps at all then please just ignore it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

About every sign has been mentioned. Is “token” another word for “sign”
Mark 14:43-46 And immediately, while he yet spoke, there came Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. [44] And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, whoever I kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely. [45] And as soon as he was come, he goes straightway to him, and says, Master, master; and kissed him. [46] And they laid their hands on him, and took him.

“A token” :
Philippians 1:28-30 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. [29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; [30] Having the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.


2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure: [5] Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer: [6] Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; [10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

…which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
^any wonder why Mary was told: “this child”, is set for the fall, and rising again of many in Israel, for a sign (manifest token) to be spoken against.
…an evident token of perdition? Consider when the Pharisees were enraged and gnashed on him with teeth from the manifest token of their perdition. Or when those capturing Paul were enraged by the same “evident token” … I still think “this child” is set for the fall, and rising again of many in Israel, for a sign (token) to be spoken against” —is THE Sign (Token) of perdition, but to you of Salvation, and that of God. And it all goes back to Christ example of death, burial and resurrection.

So much so is this SIGN or Token discussed where
…which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation,
Also, 1 Peter 4:12-14 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: [13] But rejoice, inasmuch as you are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, you may be glad also with exceeding joy. [14] If you be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are you; for the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

See a pattern?
‘This child (who is the sign?) is set, for the fall, and rising again of many in Israel, for a sign (token), to be spoken against‘

…which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation,

on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

 

[akelch]

All this is interesting and I’ll keep these things in mind. Have you tried to see if any other events can be seen in the sky? For example the abomination of desolation, would this have been something that a person could’ve seen in the night sky as an indication of when to flee?

Nothing about the abomination of desolation, but there are many things that are in the book of Revelation that many people believe are literal or spiritual when, in actuality, they are astronomical in nature.

 

[Timtofly]

We’re not understanding one another. There’s a huge disconnect which makes us go round and round. I didn’t mean to distress you.

something to consider. It’s only a thought and not a certainty but satan casting out those in heaven yet those in heaven leaving their first estate, drawn, away by their own lust —just sharing with you one perspective.

why can’t it be the same: satan cast them out and they are drawn away, and they left? For example back to the garden where three things take place: the tree is eaten of that man was not suppose to eat from: satan tempts, I can see how it could be said: satan drew or cast man out of the garden.(because it’s his actions that test man). Yet, I can also see how man leaves the garden: (failing the test, drawn away by his own lust). Yet, I can also see God cast man out of the garden. (Giving man over to a reprobate mind).

That may make no sense whatsoever. But in my mind …satan can cast those out of heaven by leading them to leave their first estate through their own lust, which then because they follow after their own lust —God cast them out of heaven giving them over to do those things which are not convenient. Whose fault is it? Satan drew, man led way, God cast away, giving them over? There an angst like the angst in Job—who harmed Job? Satan or God?

I feel we are going to continuously go round and round….if none of the above helps at all then please just ignore it.

I would certainly not ignore your point.

Making applications from Scripture to everyday actions is what most people do. Just not sure what you are applying your point to other than just an idea in your mind.

Obviously it is hard to comprehend Satan being able to "cast out" those in Christ, when Paul said that was impossible:

"Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 8

 

[grafted branch]

Nothing about the abomination of desolation, but there are many things that are in the book of Revelation that many people believe are literal or spiritual when, in actuality, they are astronomical in nature.

What do you mean by not being literal (literally happening on earth) or spiritual?

For example the star of Bethlehem, it was a literal astronomical object or event that can be argued as being only a spiritual event. An argument could be made that only the magi were able to see the star therefore it was only seen spiritually and not an astronomical event.

The star of Bethlehem would be a good example of whether something should be understood as an astronomical event only. However as I understand it, there is still debate about what exactly it was if it was a literal astronomical event. How can we determine with any certainty what the star of Bethlehem was?

 

[akelch]

What do you mean by not being literal (literally happening on earth) or spiritual?

For example the star of Bethlehem, it was a literal astronomical object or event that can be argued as being only a spiritual event. An argument could be made that only the magi were able to see the star therefore it was only seen spiritually and not an astronomical event.

The star of Bethlehem would be a good example of whether something should be understood as an astronomical event only. However as I understand it, there is still debate about what exactly it was if it was a literal astronomical event. How can we determine with any certainty what the star of Bethlehem was?

Good example.
The star of Bethlehem was a physical sign that anyone could see, BUT only the Magi knew how to interpret it.
The Magi were descendances of the students of Daniel so they knew of the prophecies of the coming Messiah. Although there is no known record of what this "Star" was, there is strong evidence that it was the movement of Jupiter (the King planet) in retrograde motion around Regulus (the "heart star" of the Constellation Leo). This very unusually event would have happened the same time the Magi were expecting the coming Messiah per the prophecies in Daniel 9.

The name Regulus means "Royalty" or "King".
Jupiter started it's 1st passing of Regulus on Sept. 11 in 3 BC the same day as the start of the Feast of Trumpets. And this also matches up with Christ being 30 years old when he was Baptized by John.
Jupiter passed Regulus 3 times over the course of a year.

BTW, You will also see that the number 3 pop up a lot and it is associated to Christ.
- 3 days and 3 night in the grave.
- 30 years old when Baptized
- 33 years old when he died
- etc.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What do you mean by not being literal (literally happening on earth) or spiritual?

For example the star of Bethlehem, it was a literal astronomical object or event that can be argued as being only a spiritual event. An argument could be made that only the magi were able to see the star therefore it was only seen spiritually and not an astronomical event.

The star of Bethlehem would be a good example of whether something should be understood as an astronomical event only. However as I understand it, there is still debate about what exactly it was if it was a literal astronomical event. How can we determine with any certainty what the star of Bethlehem was?

I thought we were talking about “the point is that these angels are literally the heavenly host who left their estate in rebellion to God. They were punished and brought low. I never said they were cast out of heaven by Satan.”

All I meant was when the tail draws a third of the stars and cast them to the earth…I can see satan draws a third with the tail into rebel? No?

They rebel, led away by their own lust? No?

As a result God turns them over to satan? No? “he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him”

In Jude 1, Jude is not talking about men when he points to those angels. In Revelation, John is not pointing to men when he addresses those stars that followed Satan as the angels that rebelled. John is not talking about the tribes of Judah and that a third of Israel rebelled and followed Satan.

You said “Jude is not taking about men when he points to those angels. In Revelation, John is not pointing to men when he addresses those stars that followed Satan as the angels rebelled.” No?

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
^you said John isn’t talking about angels (messengers)as “men” transforming themselves as “angels of light” …go back to where it starts with “deceiving the whole world”: “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
To me that says the spirit of error has to be in and of the word to deceive the whole world. i do think the best definition for angel is “messenger” Satan has his. And God has His. Satans tends to try to kill God’s messengers? Why?

 

[JohnDB]

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the SIGN of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Some say that it's the Pneumatose Cristos....
Meaning in the "Spirit of the Messiah".

The fancy P X symbol drawn on top of each other that Constantine claimed he saw and painted on his shields.


The expression of "coming on clouds" is a line from David's life song. It means war.

And with the way Constantine ruled after this...it very well could be considered the fulfillment of this prophesy.

 

[akelch]

Some say that it's the Pneumatose Cristos....
Meaning in the "Spirit of the Messiah".

The fancy P X symbol drawn on top of each other that Constantine claimed he saw and painted on his shields.


The expression of "coming on clouds" is a line from David's life song. It means war.

And with the way Constantine ruled after this...it very well could be considered the fulfillment of this prophesy.

How does this apply, in context, to the text of Matthew 24:30?

 

[Timtofly]

I thought we were talking about “the point is that these angels are literally the heavenly host who left their estate in rebellion to God. They were punished and brought low. I never said they were cast out of heaven by Satan.”

All I meant was when the tail draws a third of the stars and cast them to the earth…I can see satan draws a third with the tail into rebel? No?

They rebel, led away by their own lust? No?

As a result God turns them over to satan? No? “he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him”


You said “Jude is not taking about men when he points to those angels. In Revelation, John is not pointing to men when he addresses those stars that followed Satan as the angels rebelled.” No?

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
^you said John isn’t talking about angels (messengers)as “men” transforming themselves as “angels of light” …go back to where it starts with “deceiving the whole world”: “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
To me that says the spirit of error has to be in and of the word to deceive the whole world. i do think the best definition for angel is “messenger” Satan has his. And God has His. Satans tends to try to kill God’s messengers? Why?

2 Corinthians 11 starts out talking about men, not angels. None of Satan's angels have even walked on the earth to this day. They are still bound in the pit with chains of darkness. They have been bound for near 6,000 years.

Paul is not talking about angels. John and Jude are not talking about humans. A star is not a human ever. A human can be a messenger, but an angel can never be a human. Angels only appear human, but they are not humans. Satan appearing as an angel of light would be the form God created him as, literally a star. Satan chooses not to always appear as God intended, even though he can.

Satan has deceived the world by causing humans to think stars are something else other than the angels.

The only messengers Satan has are humans who have placed themselves into Satan's bondage. That is why Jude likens some humans to the angels who rebelled. Those humans are reprobate, and their spirits have become demons. That way Satan keeps their spirits in bondage, while their souls wait in sheol. The body has returned to dust.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

2 Corinthians 11 starts out talking about men, not angels. None of Satan's angels have even walked on the earth to this day. They are still bound in the pit with chains of darkness. They have been bound for near 6,000 years.

Paul is not talking about angels. John and Jude are not talking about humans. A star is not a human ever. A human can be a messenger, but an angel can never be a human. Angels only appear human, but they are not humans. Satan appearing as an angel of light would be the form God created him as, literally a star. Satan chooses not to always appear as God intended, even though he can.

Satan has deceived the world by causing humans to think stars are something else other than the angels.

The only messengers Satan has are humans who have placed themselves into Satan's bondage. That is why Jude likens some humans to the angels who rebelled. Those humans are reprobate, and their spirits have become demons. That way Satan keeps their spirits in bondage, while their souls wait in sheol. The body has returned to dust.

Thanks for explaining your position. You see things the way you see them. Do you ever feel like you wish I’d hear what you’re saying? Or do you ever feel like you wish others would just hear what you’re saying on a topic? Because to you…you believe it makes perfect sense? I feel the same way. For example when I spent time writing about the sign being the token spoken against…and thought I gave supportive verses. I’m kind of like an island off by myself trying to prove something I think I have enough verses to support. To me it’s like …can it be any more obvious? Why chase stars through the sky and satellites that plummet to the earth or reason over meters that possibly blaze to the earth? See, we are no different in this area where we both are fully convinced of our position…although our opinions and ideas clash. I get you may also think “can it be more obvious?”. I believe as strongly as you do that “it’s the gods-honest-truth I am right!” And that is scary! That is what makes me want to walk away from reading the word all together…to save myself from my own ruin. We will never agree no matter how much we float ideas and opinions back and forth. Angels, men, satan, falling stars…even clouds there are countless interpretations. At this point I’m not sure how anyone can be certain they are right in the sea of interpretations. Maybe that is what it’s about…to at least remind us others see it differently.

 

[JohnDB]

How does this apply, in context, to the text of Matthew 24:30?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you not know the testimony Constantine told, what happened afterwards or it's importance in history?

This story aligns with the scripture in question.

 

[akelch]

Yes, I understand. But I don't know how that applies to what Christ is saying in Matthew 24:29-31.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Are you saying that Constantine is the "Sign of the Son of Man" that makes war? (aka coming n the clouds)

 

[JohnDB]

Yes, I understand. But I don't know how that applies to what Christ is saying in Matthew 24:29-31.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Are you saying that Constantine is the "Sign of the Son of Man" that makes war? (aka coming n the clouds)

No....
You are mixing up what was said and what happened.

Separate and identify what each of the prophesies are exactly. What do each of these things mean exactly?

Why this is difficult is that there aren't many GOOD resources on A.N.E. idioms of speech. And a bunch of complete garbage theology has been made out of this Matthew passage quoting Jesus's prophesy. But it is understandable. Just not by those who do not know Psalms, symbolisms, or the rhythm/mechanics of prophetic utterances.

There's plenty of good information available on Old Testament Prophesies coming to fruition that will create obvious comparisons with New Testament Prophecies. But it requires study and a solid knowledge of history.
If I were to give you the answers you will dismiss them away because they aren't what you want to hear. If you find them as I have directed you to study...then you will own them. And that is what I wish for you or anyone who wants to know. Those solely looking for debate to sharpen their arguments? I Don't give a fig about.

 

[akelch]

No....
You are mixing up what was said and what happened.

Separate and identify what each of the prophesies are exactly. What do each of these things mean exactly?

Why this is difficult is that there aren't many GOOD resources on A.N.E. idioms of speech. And a bunch of complete garbage theology has been made out of this Matthew passage quoting Jesus's prophesy. But it is understandable. Just not by those who do not know Psalms, symbolisms, or the rhythm/mechanics of prophetic utterances.

There's plenty of good information available on Old Testament Prophesies coming to fruition that will create obvious comparisons with New Testament Prophecies. But it requires study and a solid knowledge of history.
If I were to give you the answers you will dismiss them away because they aren't what you want to hear. If you find them as I have directed you to study...then you will own them. And that is what I wish for you or anyone who wants to know. Those solely looking for debate to sharpen their arguments? I Don't give a fig about.

How do you know I would "dismiss" your answers? And how do you know that I haven't studied?
And I am not looking for a debate, just a conversation over the subject.