A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses
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John 8
Easy-to-Read Version
8 Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he went back to the Temple area. The people all came to him, and he sat and taught them.3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought a woman they had caught in bed with a man who was not her husband. They forced her to stand in front of the people. 4 They said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The Law of Moses commands us to stone to death any such woman. What do you say we should do?”
6 They were saying this to trick Jesus. They wanted to catch him saying something wrong so that they could have a charge against him. But Jesus stooped down and started writing on the ground with his finger. 7 The Jewish leaders continued to ask him their question. So he stood up and said, “Anyone here who has never sinned should throw the first stone at her.” 8 Then Jesus stooped down again and wrote on the ground.
9 When they heard this, they began to leave one by one. The older men left first, and then the others. Jesus was left alone with the woman standing there in front of him. 10 He looked up again and said to her, “Where did they all go? Did no one judge you guilty?”
11 She answered, “No one, sir.”
Then Jesus said, “I don’t judge you either. You can go now, but don’t sin again.”[a]
Jesus Is the Light of the World
12 Later, Jesus talked to the people again. He said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never live in darkness. They will have the light that gives life.”13 But the Pharisees said to Jesus, “When you talk about yourself, you are the only one to say that these things are true. So we cannot accept what you say.”
14 Jesus answered, “Yes, I am saying these things about myself. But people can believe what I say, because I know where I came from. And I know where I am going. But you don’t know where I came from or where I am going. 15 You judge me the way people judge other people. I don’t judge anyone. 16 But if I judge, my judging is true, because when I judge I am not alone. The Father who sent me is with me. 17 Your own law says that when two witnesses say the same thing, you must accept what they say. 18 I am one of the witnesses who speaks about myself. And the Father who sent me is my other witness.”
19 The people asked, “Where is your father?”
Jesus answered, “You don’t know me or my Father. But if you knew me, you would know my Father too.” 20 Jesus said these things while he was teaching in the Temple area, near the room where the Temple offerings were kept. But no one arrested him, because the right time for him had not yet come.
Some Jews Don’t Understand Jesus
21 Again, Jesus said to the people, “I will leave you. You will look for me, but you will die in your sin. You cannot come where I am going.”22 So the Jewish leaders asked themselves, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he said, ‘You cannot come where I am going’?”
23 But Jesus said to them, “You people are from here below, but I am from above. You belong to this world, but I don’t belong to this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don’t believe that I Am,[b] you will die in your sins.”
25 They asked, “Then who are you?”
Jesus answered, “I am what I have told you from the beginning. 26 I have much more I could say to judge you. But I tell people only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he speaks the truth.”
27 They did not understand who he was talking about. He was telling them about the Father. 28 So he said to them, “You will lift up[c] the Son of Man. Then you will know that I Am. You will know that whatever I do is not by my own authority. You will know that I say only what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me. I always do what pleases him. So he has not left me alone.” 30 While he was saying these things, many people believed in him.
Jesus Talks About Freedom From Sin
31 So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to accept and obey my teaching, you are really my followers. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”33 They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”
34 Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin. 35 A slave does not stay with a family forever. But a son belongs to the family forever. 36 So if the Son makes you free, you are really free. 37 I know you are Abraham’s descendants. But you want to kill me, because you don’t want to accept my teaching. 38 I am telling you what my Father has shown me. But you do what your father has told you.”
39 They said, “Our father is Abraham.”
Jesus said, “If you were really Abraham’s descendants, you would do what Abraham did. 40 I am someone who has told you the truth I heard from God. But you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that. 41 So you are doing what your own father did.”
But they said, “We are not like children who never knew who their father was. God is our Father. He is the only Father we have.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were really your Father, you would love me. I came from God, and now I am here. I did not come by my own authority. God sent me. 43 You don’t understand the things I say, because you cannot accept my teaching. 44 Your father is the devil. You belong to him. You want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning. He was always against the truth. There is no truth in him. He is like the lies he tells. Yes, the devil is a liar. He is the father of lies.
45 “I am telling you the truth, and that’s why you don’t believe me. 46 Can any of you prove that I am guilty of sin? If I tell the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God accepts what he says. But you don’t accept what God says, because you don’t belong to God.”
Jesus Talks About Himself and Abraham
48 The Jews there answered, “We say you are a Samaritan. We say a demon is making you crazy! Are we not right when we say this?”49 Jesus answered, “I have no demon in me. I give honor to my Father, but you give no honor to me. 50 I am not trying to get honor for myself. There is one who wants this honor for me. He is the judge. 51 I promise you, whoever continues to obey my teaching will never die.”
52 The Jews said to Jesus, “Now we know that you have a demon in you! Even Abraham and the prophets died. But you say, ‘Whoever obeys my teaching will never die.’ 53 Do you think you are greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I give honor to myself, that honor is worth nothing. The one who gives me honor is my Father. And you say that he is your God. 55 But you don’t really know him. I know him. If I said I did not know him, I would be a liar like you. But I do know him, and I obey what he says. 56 Your father Abraham was very happy that he would see the day when I came. He saw that day and was happy.”
57 The Jews said to Jesus, “What? How can you say you have seen Abraham? You are not even 50 years old!”
58 Jesus answered, “The fact is, before Abraham was born, I Am.” 59 When he said this, they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus hid, and then he left the Temple area.
Footnotes
- John 8:11 The oldest and best Greek copies do not have verses 7:53–8:11. Other copies have this section in different places.
- John 8:24 I Am This is like the name of God used in the Old Testament. See Isa. 41:4; 43:10; Ex. 3:14. However, it can also mean “I am he,” meaning “I am the Messiah.” Also in verses 28, 58.
- John 8:28 lift up Meaning to be nailed to a cross and “lifted up” on it to die. It may also have a second meaning: to be “lifted up” from death to heaven.
John 10
Easy-to-Read Version
The Shepherd and His Sheep
10 Jesus said, “It is certainly true that when a man enters the sheep pen, he should use the gate. If he climbs in some other way, he is a robber. He is trying to steal the sheep. 2 But the man who takes care of the sheep enters through the gate. He is the shepherd. 3 The man who guards the gate opens the gate for the shepherd. And the sheep listen to the voice of the shepherd. He calls his own sheep, using their names, and he leads them out. 4 He brings all of his sheep out. Then he goes ahead of them and leads them. The sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 But sheep will never follow someone they don’t know. They will run away from him, because they don’t know his voice.”6 Jesus told the people this story, but they did not understand what it meant.
Jesus Is the Good Shepherd
7 So Jesus said again, “I assure you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All those who came before me were thieves and robbers. The sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved. They will be able to come in and go out. They will find everything they need. 10 A thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But I came to give life—life that is full and good.11 “I am the good shepherd, and the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep. 12 The worker who is paid to keep the sheep is different from the shepherd. The paid worker does not own the sheep. So when he sees a wolf coming, he runs away and leaves the sheep alone. Then the wolf attacks the sheep and scatters them. 13 The man runs away because he is only a paid worker. He does not really care for the sheep.
14-15 “I am the shepherd who cares for the sheep. I know my sheep just as the Father knows me. And my sheep know me just as I know the Father. I give my life for these sheep. 16 I have other sheep too. They are not in this flock here. I must lead them also. They will listen to my voice. In the future there will be one flock and one shepherd.[a] 17 The Father loves me because I give my life. I give my life so that I can get it back again. 18 No one takes my life away from me. I give my own life freely. I have the right to give my life, and I have the right to get it back again. This is what the Father told me.”
19 Again the Jews were divided over what Jesus was saying. 20 Many of them said, “A demon has come into him and made him crazy. Why listen to him?”
21 But others said, “These aren’t the words of someone controlled by a demon. A demon cannot heal the eyes of a blind man.”
The Jewish Leaders Against Jesus
22 It was winter, and the time came for the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. 23 Jesus was in the Temple area at Solomon’s Porch. 24 The Jewish leaders gathered around him. They said, “How long will you make us wonder about you? If you are the Messiah, then tell us clearly.”25 Jesus answered, “I told you already, but you did not believe. I do miracles in my Father’s name. These miracles show who I am. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice. I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give my sheep eternal life. They will never die, and no one can take them out of my hand. 29 My Father is the one who gave them to me, and he is greater than all.[c] No one can steal my sheep out of his hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”
31 Again the Jews there picked up stones to kill Jesus. 32 But he said to them, “The many wonderful things you have seen me do are from the Father. Which of these good things are you killing me for?”
33 They answered, “We are not killing you for any good thing you did. But you say things that insult God. You are only a man, but you say you are the same as God! That is why we are trying to kill you!”
34 Jesus answered, “It is written in your law that God said, ‘I said you are gods.’[d] 35 This Scripture called those people gods—the people who received God’s message. And Scripture is always true. 36 So why do you accuse me of insulting God for saying, ‘I am God’s Son’? I am the one God chose and sent into the world. 37 If I don’t do what my Father does, then don’t believe what I say. 38 But if I do what my Father does, you should believe in what I do. You might not believe in me, but you should believe in the things I do. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
39 They tried to get Jesus again, but he escaped from them.
40 Then he went back across the Jordan River to the place where John began his work of baptizing people. Jesus stayed there, 41 and many people came to him. They said, “John never did any miraculous signs, but everything John said about this man is true.” 42 And many people there believed in Jesus.
Footnotes
- John 10:16 I have other sheep … shepherd Jesus means he has followers who are not Jews. See Jn. 11:52.
- John 10:22 Festival of Dedication Hanukkah, or “Festival of Lights,” a special week in December celebrating the time in 165 B.C. when the Jerusalem Temple was made pure and ready again for Jewish worship. Before then it had been under the control of a foreign (Greek) army and used for pagan worship.
- John 10:29 he … than all Some Greek copies have “they are greater than all.”
- John 10:34 Quote from Ps. 82:6.
Revelation 22
Easy-to-Read Version
22 The angel showed me the river of the water of life, clear as crystal. The river flows from the throne of God and the Lamb. 2 It flows down the middle of the street of the city. The tree of life is on each side of the river, and it produces fruit every month, twelve times a year. The leaves of the tree are for healing the nations.3 Nothing that God judges guilty will be there in that city. The throne of God and the Lamb will be in the city. God’s servants will worship him. 4 They will see his face. God’s name will be written on their foreheads. 5 There will never be night again. People will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun. The Lord God will give them light. And they will rule like kings forever and ever.
6 Then the angel said to me, “These words are true and can be trusted. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must happen soon: 7 ‘Listen, I am coming soon! Great blessings belong to the one who obeys the words of prophecy in this book.’”
8 I am John. I am the one who heard and saw these things. After I heard and saw them, I bowed down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me. 9 But the angel said to me, “Don’t worship me! I am a servant like you and your brothers the prophets. I am a servant like all those who obey the words in this book. You should worship God!”
10 Then the angel told me, “Don’t keep secret the words of prophecy in this book. The time is near for these things to happen. 11 Let anyone who is doing wrong continue to do wrong. Let anyone who is unclean continue to be unclean. Let anyone who is doing right continue to do right. Let anyone who is holy continue to be holy.”
12 “Listen, I am coming soon! I will bring rewards with me. I will repay everyone for what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega,[a] the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Great blessings belong to those who have washed their robes.[b] They will have the right to eat the food from the tree of life. They can go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside the city are all those who live like dogs—those who do evil magic, those who sin sexually, those who murder, those who worship idols, and those who love to lie and pretend to be good.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to tell you these things for the churches. I am the descendant from the family of David. I am the bright morning star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Everyone who hears this should also say, “Come!” All who are thirsty may come; they can have the water of life as a free gift if they want it.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to these, God will give that person the plagues written about in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away that person’s share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are written about in this book.
20 Jesus is the one who says that all of this is true. Now he says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all people.
Footnotes
- Revelation 22:13 Alpha … Omega The first and last letters in the Greek alphabet, meaning the beginning and the end.
- Revelation 22:14 washed their robes Meaning that they had believed in Jesus and had been made clean from sin by his blood sacrifice. See Rev. 5:9; 7:14; Heb. 9:14; 10:14-22; Acts 22:16; 1 Jn. 1:7.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
To setup a Strawman.
The word worship can apply to God. It applies to Jesus. Therefore ... but they ignore that the word worship does not exclusively apply to God. Doh!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You mean the one that says the throne is OF God (o') and people want to pretend prepositions are verbs (such as is)?
I've come to understand those claims to be specious, and yes, to me it makes the speaker sound like they are just parroting other's denigrations.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Evidence you got nothing is you are referring to entire chapters when all I need is a simple verse that says Jesus was worshipped because he is a deity. That is the claim and that is the standard of evidence.
Not having that, proponents throw a lot of stuff at the wall and hope something sticks. I've been told many times such platitudes as "the whole Bible points to it." Yet, not one actual verse in sight.
Revelation 22:8-9 KJV
8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
The angels know this.
Much love!
8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
The angels know this.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 count? I used to be skeptical of this, but Daniel Wallace convinced me otherwise. (“Consequently, in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 we are compelled to recognize that, on a grammatical level, a heavy burden of proof rests with the one who wishes to deny that 'God and Savior' refers to one person, Jesus Christ.” Sharp Redivivus? - A Reexamination of the Granville Sharp Rule | Bible.org )
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
If I may address this…..
Rev 1:4-7 if we read this in context….
“John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.” (NASB)
The one seated on the throne is Yahweh, and there are seven spirits before the throne AND “Jesus Christ the faithful witness”…..Rev 3:14 says that this “faithful witness” is “the beginning of God’s creation”.
He is the “firstborn from the dead” because he was the first human to die and be resurrected to heaven…he was not the first human to be resurrected, however. Jesus was to resurrect all in their graves in the future. (John 5:28-29)
He made his disciples to be “a kingdom, priests to His God and Father”.
“‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comesdown out of heaven from My God, and My new name.“ (Rev 3:12)
Jesus calls his Father “my God” four times in that one verse….and he mentions his new name.
How can God have a God whom he worships even in heaven?
Jesus is called an “apostle” (Heb 3:1) Can God be his own apostle?
He is called our “High Priest”…can God be his own High Priest?
He is called “God’s holy servant” (Acts 4:27,30) Can God be his own servant?
Now there is a problem for you guys to explain….because, based on the scriptures, the roles played by Jesus are roles of service to “his God and Father”.….and the third “person” hardly rates a mention in the verses where Yahweh and his son are mentioned together.
John 17:3 is especially significant here because “knowing” God and his son is a salvation issue. Is there a reason why the third “equal person” is invariably missing in these statements?
What about 1 Cor 8:5-6? Who did the apostles as a collective, clearly state was their God? Not Jesus…..
”For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”
No one ever seems to be able to furnish a biblical rebuttal to these clear scriptural statements….
Would you like to be the first?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
On the contrary, the very fact that your best arguments relies on such ambiguous text means there is simply no verse that makes the claim.
I have no doubt anyone can copy and paste an authoritative sounding case study in Eisegesis. Yet, it remains that no exegesis text exists. Compare to the proof text that man was Created on a certain day.
But Wallace's point is that these two verses are not ambiguous, but are the authors' expression of the deity of Christ. Read his piece, and you'll see he is simply knocking down the arguments of those deniers of Christ's deity who mistakenly see in these verses as references to two different persons.
In all the Trinitarian disputes I've seen, this is always the heart of the matter. "3 cannot be 1! 1 cannot be 3!" In humans from the line of Adam, I'd agree. But God is transcendant, and not to be defined according to those whom He created.
Jesus created everything that was created. That's what the Bible states. Do you find yourself needing to add a few words to that statement to make it true in your eyes? "except himself . . . someone else did that"?
John 1:1-3 LITV
1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2) He was in the beginning with God.
3) All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
This is straightforward.
Much love!
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