Where does the Pope get his authority?

[Marymog]

Prophecy of Two Swords has a different take.

I read it. I liked it. Very well written.

Mary

 

[Phoneman777]

Can YOU explain why you would make such a historically-bankrupt statement?
Everything you claimed is nonsense . . .

Irenaeus
For if the Apostles had known hidden mysteries which they taught to the elite secretly and apart from the rest, they would have handed them down especially to those very ones to whom they were committing the self-same Churches. For surely they wished all those and their successors to be perfect and without reproach, to whom they handed on their authority (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 180-199]).

It is necessary to obey those who are the presbyters in the Church, those who, as we have shown, have succession from the Apostles; those who have received, with the succession of the episcopate, the sure charism of truth according to the good pleasure of the Father. But the rest, who have no part in the primitive succession and assemble wheresoever they will, must be held in suspicion (ibid 4:26:2).

Tertullian
For this is the way in which the apostolic Churches transmit their lists: like the Church of the Smyrnaeans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John; like the Church of the Romans where Clement was ordained by Peter. In just this same way the other Churches display those whom they have as sprouts from the apostolic seed, having been established in the episcopate by the Apostles.

Therefore, they will be challenged to meet this test even by those Churches which are of much later date – for they are being established daily – and whose founder is not from among the Apostles nor from among the apostolic men; for those which agree in the same faith are reckoned as apostolic on account of the blood ties in their doctrine. (The Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:1 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian
The Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).

Cyprian
The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).

Firmilion of Caesarea
. . . when Christ breathed upon the Apostles alone, saying to them; "Receive the Holy Spirit: if you forgive any man his sins, they shall be forgiven; and if you retain any mans sins, they shall be retained." Therefore, the power of forgiving sins was given to the Apostles and to the Churches which these men, sent by Christ, established; and to the bishops who succeeded them by being ordained in their place (Letter to Cyprian 75:16 [A.D. 255-256]).

Ambrose of Milan
Christ made answer: "You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church . . ." Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]? (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

If a person says, "the pope is the ringleader of a global child pedophile network who wears a lily white robe of wretchedness" - can he still go to heaven if he professes his utmost love for and implicit trust in Christ alone?

 

[amigo de christo]

If a person says, "the pope is the ringleader of a global child pedophile network who wears a lily white robe of wretchedness" - can he still go to heaven if he professes his utmost love for and implicit trust in Christ alone?

WHO sitteth behind the vatican , behind the chair , a hint It is not of GOD ALL MIGHTY . it may have been created by him
but it is NOT OF HIM . facts are just facts . I am so worried for so many catholics
but i am just as worried for so many protestants as well . SOMETHING has long went amiss
and is no longer even fringe but has taken over that realm and sitteth high and ruleth
over the HARLOT and her daughters and is merging them and the other religoins of the world
to be as one . AND IT AINT UNDER GOD OR CHRIST EITHER .

 

[amigo de christo]

IT has whisphered its love song for a long time
and as time has went on it no longer whispers on the edge
BUT TRUMPETS LOUDLY FROM WITHIN to come , to come and sit under and drink from my all inclusive love cup
and be as one . And the dead know not it is the voice of the liar working through men whose desire for power
and greed has built its system and has prepared the peoples of earth , of the tribes and denominations
and religoins to merge as one under its shade . BEWARE ITS A LIAR
and it has lied in the garden and it lies unto men . Surely ye shall not die it said to the woman
as it now says surely ye shall not die if you believe not that JESUS is the CHRIST . ITS A LIAR folks
and it honors the sins of men and it knows how to decieve and to allure THROUGH THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH
all to JOIN as ONE with IT . Watch out cause it DO KNOW HOW TO DECIEVE .

 

[amigo de christo]

RESIST its cry BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST . GET DUG IN THEM BIBLES NOW
this liar is doing all to take all captive to a lie it calleth love .
to a love that has rejected the LOVE OF GOD whereby they could have been saved and sells a love that will save NONE
but damn every last soul that enters into those chambers of the all incluisive death it calleth love .

 

[amigo de christo]

IT has promised them THE SOLUITION FOR PEACE N SAFETY OF THE WORLD .
but it will not be able to deliver this , in fact for this very thing THE WRATH OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and of the LAMB
will strike with SUDDEN DESRUCTION upon all who hoped in its lie for world peace n safety .

 

[amigo de christo]

When the grinding of the mill is low
and the truth can scarce be heard in the streets
and the trumpet of the WHORE sounds our her song
and cries alas alas we shall have peace n safety
WHEN the inquity has hit the full
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION SHALL COME UPON THEM ALL and THEY WILL NOT ESCAPE . HEED NOT hercall
SIP not of her cup of inclusive love
for she and her children will FACE THE WRATH OF GOD and OF THE LAMB .
The delusion cannot be stopped and will run its course
:IT WILL Unify all religoins and tribes under what they call love and call GOD .
ONLY , yeah its not love or GOD . the devil can wear a lot more than prada my friends
HE and his co workers can indeed WEAR WOOL , and perhaps appear as a lamb but OH BOY do it speak as a dragon .
watch out . Be not decieved , stand firm on the FAITH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and be in them bibles and in prayer .

 

[Brakelite]

Lol....NOPE, I wasn't looking at one passage. I was looking at BOTH and saying one doesn't cancel out the other. YOU were looking at only 1 passage and suggesting that it is the only passage in regard to this matter. It's not. There is a balance since Scripture doesn't contradict itself. I have made it clear that Scripture does NOT contradict itself. YOU are suggesting it does.

Christs DOES command to love one another and our enemies (BTW enemies doesn't mean someone trying to kill you). But that passage doesn't nullify our right to defend ourselves with the sword he told us to obtain to defend ourselves. Why did he command us to buy a sword THC? Was it for looks? Makes us look intimidating? Maybe nobody would mess with us if whe have a sword attached to our side? Is that your theory?

While the following scripture does have a general lesson applicable to life, it is also specifically directed to the beast previously described as the enemy to Christianity by counterfeiting Jesus. This is the Antichrist, the very same Antichrist that the reformers identified as the papacy. The Pope in 1798 was taken into captivity, and the sword the papacy used through secular armies and the kings and princes of Europe was, after 1200 years of persecution and war, finally taken away. The Papacy's civil union with the state was finished... At least until 1928 anyway. Now, today, the beast is being healed. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? But prophecy informs us that the second beast, an Protestant image to the papacy, will wield the sword once again, so Mary, in the future union of church and state now beginning to materialise in America, there is hope for you yet that once again you will have the power and opportunity to be a good Catholic and once again fulfil your role as judge and executioner of heretics and unbelievers. Just remember though, that this will apply...

KJV Revelation 13:10
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[Brakelite]

Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[g] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus later explained that there was always a deeper meaning to His words than a simple literal perspective.
KJV John 6:53-63
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

And here is the clincher, Jesus being the Word and the Bread of Life...
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
It is the Word of God, the scriptures, that bring life. The Word of Truth,

KJV John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[Brakelite]

Well, you didn't provide a quote from Pope Francis that fundamentalist are terrorist soooooooooo when are you going to retract and apologize?

Connect the dots. There's a war on terrorism. The Vatican has had a key role in supporting that. For the Vatican however, that war extends to all of Islam, unless they surrender to Papal authority. The Pope will be your friend so long as you bow and scrape at his feet. Those quotes I provided tell you who the real enemy to Catholicism is, at least in the eyes of Francis. It is fundamentalists. The FBI and other spy agencies, agencies by the way for the most part run by Jesuit trained Catholics, link fundamentalists with terrorists. Even Christian fundamentalists, if they don't bow and scrape at the feet of the Pope through ecumenical surrender of independent thought and freedom. The pope's attitude to them is very clear. They are not worthy to live.

 

[Brakelite]

WHO sitteth behind the vatican , behind the chair , a hint It is not of GOD ALL MIGHTY . it may have been created by him

KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

 

[Brakelite]

KJV Revelation 13:18
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.



666 is an ancient occult number originating it is believed in Babylon.

 

[TheHC]

History is replete with accounts of Protestants taking the offense and being the instigator in conflicts!

I never said they weren’t; some are just as guilty as Catholic leadership, as a whole.

But JW’s have never gotten involved with warfare. To the dismay of, and persecution by, their respective governments.
And yet, despite this, our brotherhood continues to grow.

You want a list?

No I got one, thank you.

 

[Brakelite]

SDA?

There you go. Now wasn't that easy?

 

[BreadOfLife]

If a person says, "the pope is the ringleader of a global child pedophile network who wears a lily white robe of wretchedness" - can he still go to heaven if he professes his utmost love for and implicit trust in Christ alone?

That person would be lying, as only a smal percentage of priests were accused of any wrongdong.

Conversely - if a person were to say that your SDA sect is just a cove for a worldwide pedophile rring - would that be accurate??

Adventist Women's Ministries | Statement on Child Sexual Abuse​

Healing the wounds of childhood sexual abuse - Adventist Record

Seventh-day Adventist Church Retaliates against Abuse Victim and her family.

Sex Abuse Cases: New Allegations | Adventist Today

Moncton woman sues Seventh-day Adventist Church over alleged sex abuse ...

Child sexual abuse - Adventist Record

Seventh-Day Adventist Child Molestation Lawsuit | SDA Sex Abuse Lawyer

 

[Berean]

Where does the Pope get his authority?​

​

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mmmm. That's how rabbinical Judaism justified their traditions to Jesus. In fact, the Catholic system of passing on tradition and giving it authority is a direct parallel to apostatised Israel. The seat of Moses became the seat of Peter.

Only in your mind, because you don’t understand Scripture.

The Jews were bound to Sacred Oral Tradition every bit as much as the Scriptures.
The same is true in Christianity.

Paul explicitly tells this to the Thessalonians:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us"

He also reminds the Corinthians of the SAME . . .
1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you".

Jesus and the NT writers relied on Sacred ORAL Traditiopn that was equally-binding as Scripture:
Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is NOT found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is NOT recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is NOT found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

Okay. It seems I did understand how the church taught after all. You more or less quoted the catechism verbatim. Scripture is interpreted through the lens of tradition. Both are equally inspired, the unwritten words of Jesus taught to Peter comes down infallibly through succession to the modern day Peter sitting on his throne. As for the assurance, it not being "our way or the highway" situation, that may be where I don't understand. Official empirical sanction was granted the Pope (hence the Revelation statement concerning authority coming from the dragon and granted the beast) in the 6th century by Justinian to search out and punish heretics. That being the case, and the ensuing practise in all countries where the church had political power or influence, many hundreds of thousands experienced first hand the literal "our way or the highway" approach to teaching the gospel.

Your warped, Ellen White-vomited Biblical perversions aside – the Pope got his power from Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18-19, John 21:15-19) – not a dragon and not the Beast,

Hold on. I think we need to put a couple of things into context. Paul was travelling around Asia preaching a radically new way of doing religion. Some believed him and were convinced by the conviction of the holy Spirit that what Paul was teaching was truth. I know this, because the holy Spirit convicting people of truth, whether it be through a pastor or priest at a pulpit, or directly through reading scripture, is the only way by which anyone can be convinced of the gospel. No-one is convinced of the truth of the gospel and the salvation offered through the blood of Jesus, without the holy Spirit. It isn't up to the church to convince anyone. It isn't the church, or anyone else, that is the source of our salvation. A faulty conduit at best, and at worst, a purveyor of heresy and less and fairy tales. And the Catholic church has been known to swing like a pendulum from one of the above to the other, depending on who's in charge, and who they're talking to. The church would not have known the identity of the Messiah and the meaning of His ministry to mankind without being taught through scripture, first the OT and the numerous prophecies that pointed directly to Jesus such as Daniel 9 and Micah 5 and Isaiah 53 and many more. The story of the gospel is not about the church, it's about Jesus. And it was Jesus who taught the two worried, even frightened disciples on the road to Emmaus. Jesus didn't tell them to go and see Peter for the answers to their fears and questions. He opened up the scriptures, and
KJV Luke 24:25-27
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

You have an extremely warped view of what the Church is.

Paul and the rest of the Apostles and presbyters preaching around the countryside WERE the Church. Your statement above in RED completely absurd, as the Apostles knew the Messiah FIRST-HAND.

The Bereans knew OF Hi through the Scriptures – but they ONLY knew His identity through the CHURCH, You can argue about that ALL day - and you'll STILL be wrong . . .

 

[Marymog]

I never said they weren’t; some are just as guilty as Catholic leadership, as a whole.

I know you never said the Protestants weren't just as guilty as The Church. THATS THE PROBLEM!! For some reason you found it important to point the finger at The Church without realizing you had 3 fingers pointing back at you. You were looking at the log in someone else's eye without acknowledging the log in yours.

 

[Marymog]

But JW’ have never gotten involved with warfare. To the dismay of, and persecution by, their respective governments.
And yet, despite this, our brotherhood continues to grow.

I know you have never gotten DIRECTLY involved with warfare because you have the luxury of not getting involved with warfare. Other Christian men do the fighting and bleeding and dying to protect your women, children and elderly and your right to not fight.

If all men were as passive as your men, we would all be living under Islamic Law! Thank God for Godly men!

 

[Marymog]

Connect the dots. There's a war on terrorism.......

Translation: I lied. The Pope never said what I, Brakelite, accused him of saying. And I refuse to apologize!!