The Case for Eternal Security

[St. SteVen]

Not at all. Read O'Darby's posts. Hey, that's me!

You mentioned KFC earlier.

I hear that those in hell still have a choice...
Original Recipe, or Extra Crispy.



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[Behold]

Eternal security is a cherished theological tradition but it is not compatible with the teachings of Jesus and the disciples. It's a comforting lie.

@Wynona

The problem with your theological deception, one of them, is.. when you say that that you dont believe that Jesus keeps you saved, and that is what you believe, when you BELIEVE .. """"you can lose your salvation"", then you have to answer a question that is going to be very revealing of your faith.
Or you can run from the question.

So, if you "cherish" the fact that you dont trust in Christ to keep you saved, then that would explain why you sound so proud to announce it here on the forum.

So, let me ask you a simple question.
See....When a person like you, believes that you can lose your salvation, then that means that you dont trust in Christ to Keep you saved.

So, the question is..

Who do you trust to keep you saved and get you into heaven?

And please dont try to be deceptive and say..."Jesus" when in fact if you truly trusted Jesus, then you would trust Him to Keep you saved.
You do not..

So, who do you trust, to keep you saved.. ?

 

[Behold]

I hear that those in hell still have a choice...

You shouldn't listen to so many voices inside your head.
You should also have some respect for the forum, and for the bible, as that way your pretense can try to keep glowing.

 

[St. SteVen]

You shouldn't listen to so many voices inside your head.

That saw cuts both ways.

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[O'Darby]

That saw cuts both ways.

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Depends who those voices are, eh? :)

 

[St. SteVen]

Depends who those voices are, eh? :)

Indeed.

I love the quote by Lily Tomlin.
(very offensive, but very funny)

"When we talk to God, we're praying.
When God talks to us, we're schizophrenic."

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[Wynona]

God bless everyone here.

 

[Ritajanice]

God bless everyone here.

God Bless you too!!!..xx

 

[Behold]

Are you really saying that no Christian has left following Jesus?

Salvation , is to be born again.

This has nothing to do with "following Jesus" or not.

Salvation is : Jesus died for your sins, and God will accept you only based on what Jesus has done for you on The Cross... And God only Keeps us based on the same reason.

A.) = JESUS.

Your "works' and your behavior, before you trusted in Christ was "filthy life of sin"... so, God took you, like that, based on what Jesus did for you on The Cross.

So, LATER when you now believe and want to tell everyone that YOU are the reason that God keeps you, = how YOU behave.... is the result of no longer Trusting in Christ..

Here is how you know you actually Trust in Christ.... Reader.

"I Believe that Jesus who saved me, KEEPS ME SAVED"...

See that?

And once you no longer Trust in Christ then you'll try to prove that YOU can lose your Salvation, as if your Salvation is based on YOUR Behavior, and not on the Cross of Christ.

Paul teaches that THIS ONE... is : "fallen from GRACE". and "in the flesh".. = broken faith, carnal mind.

 

[Ritajanice]

We are saved once we have become Born Again, the two are in harmony with each other.

We need the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Then we need the spiritual rebirth, no one imo can understand the death and resurrection of Jesus....without the witness of the Holy Spirit....after we have become Born Again we then have the God given faith and Spirit gives birth to spirit....

Only then can we be led through scripture.....it’s taken years for God to show me why the death and resurrection of Jesus was needed. So that we can become Born Again by his Spirit, that’s the only way to be reconciled back to God, by the spiritual rebirth...which can only be done by him....xx

 

[Ritajanice]

And once you no longer Trust in Christ then you'll try to prove that YOU can lose your Salvation, as if your Salvation is based on YOUR Behavior, and not on the Cross of Christ.

Do you trust in Christ because of his death and resurrection of Jesus?

Is that how you believe you are kept saved?...by looking to the cross?

I’m just trying to understand your testimony of how you became Born Again.....as we both disagree on how we are Born Again it seems...

You say you believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus...I’m asking how do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?..

Hey...it’s me “ quizzing” you now.which makes a change it’s usually the other way round....your always quizzing everyone else.......hehehe...xxx

 

[St. SteVen]

Then we need the spiritual rebirth, no one imo can understand the death and resurrection of Jesus....without the witness of the Holy Spirit....after we have become Born Again we then have the God given faith and Spirit gives birth to spirit....

Thanks for your post.
You say something here that I remember you writing oftentimes.
But I just realized that even though it is a common phrase, you are using it differently than I understand it.
Which isn't a problem, just seemed worth discussing. I want to understand your POV on this.

The phrase is "Spirit gives birth to spirit" (bold in your quote above)
I only understand the phrase from the scripture below.
But you seem to have another take on it, or an expansion of the meaning?

John 3:6 NIV
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit.

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[St. SteVen]

Hey...it’s me “ quizzing” you now.which makes a change it’s usually the other way round....your always quizzing everyone else.......hehehe...xxx

LOL xxx

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[Ritajanice]

Thanks for your post.
You say something here that I remember you writing oftentimes.
But I just realized that even though it is a common phrase, you are using it differently than I understand it.
Which isn't a problem, just seemed worth discussing. I want to understand your POV on this.

The phrase is "Spirit gives birth to spirit" (bold in your quote above)
I only understand the phrase from the scripture below.
But you seem to have another take on it, or an expansion of the meaning?

John 3:6 NIV
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit.

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Yes, Flesh gives birth to flesh...human birth.

Spirit gives birth to spirit......God births our spirit into his ,via his Spirit as he does so, he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children ....that is the Living spiritual rebirth....remember when you said God spoke to your spirit, I understand that.

Are we in agreement or do you disagree?

All we can do is explain as I believe we are led to, by Gods Spirit.xx

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, Flesh gives birth to flesh...human birth.

Yes, that's the comparative.
- Flesh > flesh (new physical creation)
- Spirit > spirit (new spiritual creation)

Spirit gives birth to spirit......God births our spirit into his ,via his Spirit as he does so, he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children ....that is the Living spiritual rebirth....remember when you said God spoke to your spirit, I understand that.

I hope I'm not splitting hairs here. (not my intention to argue)
In my reply above I have included directional arrows ">".
You seem to see it as "<". (note bold phrase in your quote above)

- spirit > Spirit (new spiritual creation)

Note the capital S and small s.
God birthing our spirit into his Spirit.

Are we in agreement or do you disagree?

Yes. I think we do. You seem to see it a bit differently than I do.
Fascinating to me. xx

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[Ritajanice]

Note the capital S and small s.
God birthing our spirit into his Spirit.

Amen!!...as he did to yours, he testified with your spirit and you knew instantly it was God/ Holy Spirit....as did I when God birthed my spirit into his Spirit..xx

That is the Spiritual rebirth, imo...

 

[Hobie]

This is typically discussed under the derogatory term OSAS (once saved always saved)
So, I wanted to present the topic under positive terms.
To me, the comparison is between Eternal Security and Eternal Insecurity. (my own derogatory term)

Those who oppose OSAS (Eternal Security) usually don't realize what they are throwing away.

My position on the subject is as follows. (which I have posted many times on the forum)

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd. - St. SteVen

I found this list of seven principles online that I thought was pretty good. Source link at the bottom of the page.
There are other presentations available with a lot more items.

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7 Proofs Your Salvation Is Eternally Secure ​

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
no one will snatch them out of my hand. - John 10:28 NIV

And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice
of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. - Hebrews 10:10 NIV

When you first believed in Jesus, you were saved.
But after a while, perhaps because you sinned or failed God in some way, maybe you began to question whether it’s possible to lose your salvation.
A genuine believer in the Lord Jesus shouldn’t be tormented by this question.
The Bible tells us that once we believe in Jesus Christ, we can never lose our salvation.
In this post we’ll look at some verses that show seven proofs of our salvation being irreversible and eternally secure.

1. Our salvation was initiated by God​

Ephesians 1:4 says:


God chose us before we were born, even before the universe was created.
Then, when the time was right for us to be saved, He called us.
Do you think that God would choose us so long ago, send His Son to die for us,
wait for us to be born, and then call and save us, only to abandon us after we’re finally saved?
No, He would not. God is the One who initiated our salvation
before the foundation of the world and carried it out.

2. God’s love for us is eternal​

Jeremiah 31:3 says:


This verse says God loves us with a love that’s eternal.
That means His love is unchanging.
Human love can be fickle, but God’s love never changes;
it doesn’t depend on what we do.
God loves us eternally.

3. God is righteous in saving us​

Psalm 89:14 says:


God’s throne is immovable and unshakable because the foundation of His throne is His righteousness.
God’s love motivated Him to save us from eternal judgment. But God’s righteousness is the base of His salvation.
Many fear God’s righteousness and associate it with His wrath. His righteousness is indeed a fearful thing.
Because God is righteous, He cannot tolerate or overlook sin; He’s bound to judge all unrighteousness.
But God’s righteousness is also the base of our salvation, which is truly wonderful.


Let’s see how this is so. Romans 6:23 says:


This means that all who sin must die.
The righteous God has no other choice but to judge sinners and assign them their wages: eternal death.
But the Lord Jesus came and bore the judgment of death for sinners on the cross.
God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice as the full payment for our sins. Just as in a court of law, a judge can’t require
a debt to be paid twice, God is bound by His righteousness to honor the price Christ paid for us.
So if God wants His throne to stand, He must act in accordance with His righteousness.
Since Jesus paid the penalty for our sins by dying in our place,
God’s righteousness won’t allow Him to demand further payment from us.
This means our salvation is secured by God’s righteousness;
He can’t take it away from us. Praise Him for His righteousness!

4. We have become God’s children​

John 1:12-13 says:


When we accepted Jesus as our Savior, we were saved from eternal perdition.
But that’s not all. These verses tell us we were also begotten of God to be His children.
This is something that can’t be undone.
We all know that children misbehave from time to time.
But no matter how much they may misbehave, their bad behavior can never negate
the fact that they were born of their parents. Even when children are disciplined,
that discipline doesn’t undo their relationship with their parents.
In the same way, our sins and failures can’t negate the fact that we’re born of God
and are children of God. We may sometimes require God’s discipline,
but we’ll always be God’s children, born of His divine life.

5. God keeps us in His hand​

John 10:28-29 says:


All kinds of things may try to snatch us from the Father’s hand—sin, the world,
difficulties, even Satan himself. But in these verses, the Lord Jesus assures us by saying that
it’s impossible for us to be snatched away. No one and nothing is stronger than God.

6. God never changes​

Hebrews 13:8 says:


Everything changes: people, circumstances, environments, the weather.
Even our own emotions fluctuate constantly; we can be up one minute and down the next.
But our salvation doesn’t hinge on our feelings. God never changes and neither does His salvation.

7. Christ has promised not to cast us out​

John 6:37 says:


What a precious, unconditional promise from our Savior!
He will never cast out or reject those who have come to Him.
We can fully trust in Him and His Word to know our salvation is eternally secure.
So we shouldn’t live our Christian life in constant fear and doubt.
Our salvation is eternally secure, and we can and should trust in the Word of God,
which assures us of this fact.

We encourage you to learn more about this important topic by reading
Basic Elements of the Christian Life, vols. 1-3, a free book set that has helped
thousands of believers. If you’re a US resident, you can order the free three-volume set here.
You can also download them from anywhere in the world here.

Source
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As long as you obey and follow Him, otherwise you will reap the results of your bondage to sin...
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[St. SteVen]

Amen!!...as he did to yours, he testified with your spirit and you knew instantly it was God/ Holy Spirit....as did I when God birthed my spirit into his Spirit..xx

Yes!

I was 8 years old. But, as you noted, I knew it was God. (Jesus?)
What God said blew my 8 yr old mind. Is was literally stunned. (trance-like reaction)
At that point I didn't care what else was happening in the room.
Pastor had asked that every head be bowed and every eye be closed.

I stood up before the invitation to come forward was given and climbed over arms and legs
to get to the aisle to go forward. Pastor may have been a bit stunned as well.
He knew me and my father, whom his father had led to the Lord. - LOL

All the wonder of this event occurred to me when I was a young adult.
Prior to that it had seemed normal to me. Until I heard the testimonies of others.
Then I put the pieces together. Wow. So blessed.

The Pastor who gave that invitation was at my father's funeral/memorial service.
I related the story and pointed him out to the congregation. Quite a moment.

That is the Spiritual rebirth, imo...

Thanks for explaining your POV. I appreciate you. xx

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[Hobie]

We have to discern what is being given...
2 Peter 2:18-20
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.