Does Satan run the world? Or does God?

[BlessedPeace]

Tradition is not proof. Never has been. And there was more than one "John" in the ministry in the early church (John surnamed Mark, for instance).

Mark was imprisoned on Patmos?

 

[Wrangler]

Does Satan run the world? Or does God?

It's a great question Matthew, one that I've struggled with for a long time. Thanks for asking it. I believe we have to admit there is Scriptural evidence for both sides. So, we have the task of reconcilling Scripture.

I think it comes down to the fact that there are general rules and exceptions to those rules. So, it takes quite a bit of discernment. A frequent prayer in Scripture is that one falls into their own trap.

• YHWH is the Supreme Being, ruler of all.
• Lucifer + 1/3 of Angels + Adam rebelled. (This tells us rebellion is possible).
• YHWH left his Creation to the fallen - as a general rule.
• There are 2 important exceptions to this: (1). We rebel agains the temporary god of this world in allegience to YHWH; (2). YHWH asserts his will on Earth over Lucifer.

Regarding the 2nd important exception, not only does this allow for revelation through the prophets but deliverance through the Messiah. As I pondered this in light of Daniel 10:13, an angel of God was delayed for 21 days by the angel of Persia, I can only imagine there must have been one of the greatest battle of all time in the Spiritual realm surrounding the birth and upbringing of our Lord.

The victory of Satan to destroy the Anointed before he attained full power, wisdom and stature had to be prevented at all costs. Does anyone believe the first time Jesus ever encountered a (fallen) angel was in the desert after his baptism? I don't.

 

[Behold]

Wrong. Preteristic teaching was first given by Christ and the disciples.

What you posted is a teaching of Preterism., as will be your next 40 posts @3 Resurrections .

Obviously you now know that i know this, so, is there any reason to deny it?

Even @MatthewG does not deny it anymore.
He just gets angry.
In fact, the very first thing he ever did on this forum was to post a Preterism Video.

And regarding Preterism...= its what its deceived believe, as they were taught to believe.

See, your deception didn't originally come from a bible, it came from a teaching that you are teaching..... that originally caused you to believe something that isn't true.
This is how a "cult teaching" operates in the mind of its victim.

So, what is interesting would be for you to think back on that reality, you and @MatthewG , and see if you both can recall if it was a Video, or a Person, or a Commentary that caused to you to first hear or read about Preterism, that has caused you both to become its cult member.

Now, please dont lie to the members here, and say..."no, i was reading a BIBLE and suddenly understood all about AD70 and AD 57, and all this Preterism JUNK you are both teaching.
See, you were taught by Preterism, to SEE verses as that doctrine of devil's teaches.
And now you both believer it, and teach it.

 

[MatthewG]

What you posted is a teaching of Preterism.

Its what its deceived believe, as they were taught to believe.

See, your deception didn't come from a bible, it came from a teaching that you are teaching that caused you to believe something that isn't true.
This is how a "cult teaching" operates in the mind of its victim.

Do you really not wonder about those on their death bed, sad they didn’t see the Lord return?

I realize you live in Israel and expect a return there but what about your families before you? Did they also hold on to Jesus is coming back soon?

 

[Behold]

Do you really not wonder about those on their death bed, sad they didn’t see the Lord return?

I realize you live in Israel and expect a return there but what about your families before you? Did they also hold on to Jesus is coming back soon?

When Jesus ascended to Heaven in front of the believers, they were told...>"why do you stand there looking into the sky,, this Same Jesus will return again."

And Paul and all the apostles, had their hopes set on it.
Paul wanted to be in the Resurrection.

But, they all learned.
And that is why Paul said...>" to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.""" was what he wanted, but, he understood that helping the Christians was more necessary. So, Paul stayed here till they cut off his Head.
And that was the best day of His life, other then when he was born again.

So...
If Paul was still looking for Jesus's Return, then He would not have said that..
Most of the apostles had been murdered by AD70.

And YES< i look for Jesus to come today to get His Bride.
All the signs have happened that predict the Trib is going to Start..

Have you ever read this?
You should.
-

 

[Behold]

The full preterest view is not defensible today. Revelation is prophetic, not historic.

Yes.

But, this cult teaching still has the power to deceive.

 

[MatthewG]

When Jesus ascended to Heaven in front of the believers, they were told...>"why do you stand there looking into the sky,, this Same Jesus will return again."

And Paul and all the apostles, had their hopes set on it.
Paul wanted to be in the Resurrection.

But, they all learned.
And that is why Paul said...>" to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.""" was what he wanted, but, he understood that helping the Christians was more necessary. So, Paul stayed here till they cut off his Head.
And that was the best day of His life, other then when he was born again.

So...
If Paul was still looking for Jesus's Return, then He would not have said that..
Most of the apostles had been murdered by AD70.

And YES< i look for Jesus to come today to get His Bride.
All the signs have happened that predict the Trib is going to Start..

Have you ever read this?
You should.
-
View attachment 43421

I’m not interested in that book.

I’m not stupid to not believe what Jesus said about his coming, and I believe faithfully it happened.

That is the difference between me and yourself. That is all it is.

I believe in something I never seen and hope it was achieved by Gods doing.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yes.

But, this cult teaching still has the power to deceive.

I agree.
The full preterist here struggles to make their doctrine fit contemporary reality.

This is a new Earth? If so, we'll need saving again.

 

[MatthewG]

This is the new earth governed by God… it’s by his spirit he calls to all people. The old earth was governed by law.

People don’t get that though. It’s okay. And people will continue to look at me oddly.

Everything has been restored like the Garden of Eden before sin was in the Garden. The only thing keeping people from the truth is not going to partake in the tree of life.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree.
The full preterist here struggles to make their doctrine fit contemporary reality.

This is a new Earth? If so, we'll need saving again.

What people miss is to be saved from the wrath of God was a common feature to the generation at the time. Don’t believe me? Just go back to the beginning with John and his proclaimation “who told you about the coming wrath.”

 

[rockytopva]

There were at times three arch angels under the Great Father God...

1. Gabriel - With his third of the angels
2. Michael - With his third of the angels
3. Lucifer - With his third of the angels

There will, I believe afterwards, be three arch angels under the Great Father God

1. Christ Jesus- With his third of the elect humans
2. Michael - With his third of the angels
3. Gabriel - With his third of the angels

Christ Jesus being the one above all spirits under God the Father. We will have to wait and see what eternity holds. The rule of Lucifer the arch angel is short and he has current permission to roam the earth. I believe there will be a galaxy size place called hell in which the gravity will forever hold its inhabitants...

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: - Matthew 25:41

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. - Revelation 12:12

Very soon the mass (m) returns to plasma (E/c2) where something else will be done with it! To plasma energy she returns! To mass she reforms! All we know that that everything (besides the galaxy known as hell) will be made new and judging by the size of the universe God has a lot of plasma to work with!

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

 

[MatthewG]

There were at times three arch angels under the Great Father God...

1. Gabriel - With his third of the angels
2. Michael - With his third of the angels
3. Lucifer - With his third of the angels

There will, I believe afterwards, be three arch angels under the Great Father God

1. Christ Jesus- With his third of the elect humans
2. Michael - With his third of the angels
3. Gabriel - With his third of the angels

Christ Jesus being the one above all spirits under God the Father. We will have to wait and see what eternity holds. The rule of Lucifer the arch angel is short and he has current permission to roam the earth. I believe there will be a galaxy size place called hell in which the gravity will forever hold its inhabitants...

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: - Matthew 25:41

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. - Revelation 12:12

Very soon the mass (m) returns to plasma (E/c2) where something else will be done with it! To plasma energy she returns! To mass she reforms! All we know that that everything (besides the galaxy known as hell) will be made new and judging by the size of the universe God has a lot of plasma to work with!

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

I can’t take any of this as truth for myself @rockytopva. For nearly 2000 years it’s been preached that Jesus is still coming… that’s not possible on a one time event that would never happen again to that generation. Satans name is not Lucifer either.

That just is a buncha bull hockey, and fear mongering…

 

[MatthewG]

Come to church and pay your tithing and God will come and Jesus will be pleased and rescue you, just look at the world! Oh how evil it is! God hates it! He wants to destroy it…

Buncha of lies.

 

[rockytopva]

I can’t take any of this as truth for myself @rockytopva. For nearly 2000 years it’s been preached that Jesus is still coming… that’s not possible on a one time event that would never happen again to that generation. Satans name is not Lucifer either.

That just is a buncha bull hockey, and fear mongering…

I believe Isaac Newton was closest in the end time calculations...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half." - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060. It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

But, whether this all happens in our lifetime or not, it is the Lord's will that we stay ready...

And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:39-40

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma --- And bang! Back to plasma!
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, and a mind to study these things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Very soon the mass (m) returns to plasma (E/c2) where something else will be done with it!

To plasma energy she returns! To those who are not ready... A tilt of the hat! And a nice knowing ya!

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

 

[MatthewG]

I believe Isaac Newton was closest in the end time calculations...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half." - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060. It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

But, whether this all happens in our lifetime or not, it is the Lord's will that we stay ready...

And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:39-40

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma --- And bang! Back to plasma!
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, and a mind to study these things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Very soon the mass (m) returns to plasma (E/c2) where something else will be done with it!

To plasma energy she returns! To those who are not ready... A tilt of the hat! And a nice knowing ya!

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Jesus was even closer. With his generation. 40 years is a biblical generation. Then you have revelation which Jesus is revealed information from his Father. I guess Jesus didn’t know everything right off the bat…

Most people claim that 2 Peter is talking about a world wide destruction however it’s talking about how Israel was going to go up flames, and the works which Israel had done would be burned up…

 

[rockytopva]

Jesus was even closer. With his generation. 40 years is a biblical generation.

Most people claim that 2 Peter is talking about a world wild destruction however it’s talking about how Israel was going to go up flames, and the works which Israel had done would be burned up…

In your opinion what is Lucifer's (satan or the devil, however you want to name him) timeline? What will become of him? What will become of those on earth who delight in evil?

 

[MatthewG]

The reason people miss it is because they rather look to Isaac newton, or someone else that are making claims besides Jesus. @rockytopva its shameful. But what can you do when you don’t realize it?

 

[MatthewG]

In your opinion what is Lucifer's (satan or the devil, however you want to name him) timeline? What will become of him? What will become of those on earth who delight in evil?

Do you think the devil is the cause of all evil? Are we not by our nature prone to desiring things for ourselves? As far as the devil he was done away with after his use of taking out Israel.

 

[MatthewG]

@rockytopva evil existed by Gods existence. While no darkness is in him, he dwelled in the darkness of the cloud that filled up the temple… darkness and evil has always existed, it’s the abstraction of light.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I can’t take any of this as truth for myself @rockytopva. For nearly 2000 years it’s been preached that Jesus is still coming… that’s not possible on a one time event that would never happen again to that generation. Satans name is not Lucifer either.

That just is a buncha bull hockey, and fear mongering…

Lucifer,light bringer, was the adversaries name before he fell and became ha Satan.