They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[PinSeeker]

Obviously you may or may not distinguish between the Lord and God.

LOL! God is the Lord, and the Lord is God. So in that sense, there is no distinction. But there is certainly a distinction in personhood ~ and function, of course ~ between God the Father and God the Son (and God the Holy Spirit).

Perhaps read John 1 again?

:) Are you a Jehovah’s Witness, Timtofly?

You make no distinction concerning a throne that is physical but unseen.

There certainly is one Seat of power; there is no distinction to make. That Seat is not a physical chair, but a position of absolute power and sovereignty over all creation… now and in the age to come.

I make no distinction concerning the Cross.

I’m… not even sure what you mean by this, but don’t bother explaining. :)

I don't think the Lord forsook the person hood of Christ while on the Cross.

Well, do you think Jesus was mistaken in thinking the Father had forsaken Him? Surely not… Maybe your understanding of the Father’s forsaking someone is something other than it actually is…

However when it comes to person hood, you cannot place Jesus on a separate throne.

Again, not sure what you really mean by this; it’s kind of two disparate things… But “Jesus on a separate throne”… Isn’t that what you’re doing and not me? Certainly not me…

Was the Lord God the same as the Lamb prior to creation? How do you prove to another human there was a Lamb even before Jesus was born?

Oh, my. Another human being prior to creation? I hope no one thinks such a thing, but hey, if something can be thought, there’s probably people out there who actually think it… LOL!

And… Jesus, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, is eternally existing.

Yet you point out the Lamb was in God on the same throne, at all times.

What??? God is one, eternally existing in three distinct Persons. Goodness gracious.

What makes a physical Cross that was seen any different than what cannot be seen?

Hm, well, the cross was obviously a piece of wood fashioned by human hands from a tree…

Please stop. Please. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Hobie]

There is nothing in this verse particularly or in the Bible that indicates that any person is annihilated or ceases to exist. Two points:

• What you have in bold has implications both for the believer and unbeliever before his/her physical death ~ life "under the sun," as the preacher of Ecclesiastes says several times . But it is talking about the life of the unbeliever at present, who, when they die, the know not life on earth ~ "under the sun," as the preacher of Ecclesiastes says several times. We all know that we will die, and that we will at that point know ~ experience ~ nothing of life under the sun anymore. As the preacher goes on to say, "forever they have (everyone has) no more share in all that is done under the sun."
• And the implication here is that those who have died still know ~ experience ~ something, just no longer... life under the sun.

For the unbeliever, we see the truth of this even now in Jesus's parable in Luke 16, where the rich man ~ who has died ~ is in a place where he... well, where he doesn't want to be... <shudder> ...so much so that he wants those on the other side of the chasm that cannot be crossed to go and warn everyone else to avoid the same fate as he... <shudder>

For believers, they (we) are like the thief crucified on Jesus's right in Luke 23:39-43, who, when he begged Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom, Jesus told him he would be... and so he was... in paradise with Christ that day. After they died and gave up their spirit, of course.

And speaking of Luke 23:39-43, regarding the other criminal, the fact that Jesus said nothing to the one crucified on His left should not be interpreted to mean that he would be annihilated, but only that he wouldn't be with Christ in paradise, and therefore would be... <shudder>... somewhere else.

Grace and peace to you, Hobie.

I didnt infer or say that, this shows what happens when we die in the grave, the death appointed to all men..
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[rwb]

Of course not, we are taken to heaven...that is what scripture says and points to..

When we have been given everlasting life through Christ when we are born again through the Spirit, will we be taken to heaven DEAD? What part of us goes to heaven? It's not our flesh that returns to dust, so what part of us is taken to heaven, and why would whatever you think goes to heaven go there without life?

 

[rwb]

i didnt infer or say that, this shows what happens when we die in the grave, the death appointed to all men..
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

What about those who have part in the first resurrection and have overcome the second death? It is true all mankind is appointed "once to die" physically, so how do you explain everlasting life all who have been born again of the Spirit of Christ within?

 

[PinSeeker]

i didnt infer or say that, this shows what happens when we die in the grave, the death appointed to all men..

Well good. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

My point about the Luke 19 parable in question is that it literally takes place on the earth, except some Amils have the entire planet engulfed in flames at the time, thus no habitable earth to return to, thus they insist that Jesus doesn't set foot on the earth again until after the great white throne judgment is in the past.

I’m going to speak to this post one more time; pardon me if I am repeating something I already posted…

I fully agree with you here (at least), David ~ no, the earth is not engulfed in literal flames; to suppose so is a terrible misconstruing of “the fire coming down from heaven” in Revelation 20:9… this “fire” should be understood to be the Lord Jesus Christ in His return. So, yes, I would classify myself an “Amil,” but not all “Amils” agree on the nature of these things, obviously, and that’s true of all eschatological classifications… e.g., there are likewise several variations among “Premils.”

Clearly, the GWTJ is not yet in the past as of this parable.

Agreed. I would submit to you, David, that this parable in Luke 19 is the final Judgment, the same as what Jesus speaks of in Matthew 25:31-46 and the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15… the same thing is in view here in all three passages.

If one insists that the GWTJ is meant by this parable, what does one do with the following, for example?

Luke 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Right, see above.

Regardless what it looks like to have authority over ten cities, is not the point. The timing and length of it is the point.

Understood.

It certainly isn't something involving Revelation 20:11-15 if right after that judgment is concluded it then results in the following.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Right; what is in view here is what is… well, what is in the process now and advancing toward this point ~ in God’s millennium, in terms of Revelation 20, which we are in the midst of ~ advancing toward the end of this age and the return of the King (a Lord of the Rings reference :)), Christ Jesus. Upon which, all in short order, will be the final conflict and victory over Satan once and for all, the final resurrection (which is bodily and is of both those resurrected to life ~ believers ~ and then those resurrected to judgment ~ unbelievers), and then the final Judgment.

Once again, regardless what it looks like to have authority over 10 cities, as if it makes sense to give out that authority then take it away the very same day because 1 Corinthians 15:28 has now been fulfilled instead.

See, if I understand you correctly here, David, I agree with you. It seems important to quote what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:21-23, leading up to verses 24-28, where he writes, “For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.” Paul is writing about the present state of things, the time leading up to Christ’s return.

IOW, Amil makes zero sense, since there is no era of time after Christ has returned in order for some of these things to fit…

Well, hopefully now you have a better idea of where “Amil” ~ or anyone else for that matter ~ should place these things.

Let's face it, Amil cuts out a good portion of the Bible per their view of things since they have no era of time post the 2nd coming where these things can fit during.

Hm. Well, maybe what you say here is true of certain wrong “Amils”… :) Maybe the problem is painting those who classify themselves as “Amil” with such a broad brush. See above.

Grace and peace to you, David.

 

[Hobie]

What about those who have part in the first resurrection and have overcome the second death? It is true all mankind is appointed "once to die" physically, so how do you explain everlasting life all who have been born again of the Spirit of Christ within?

The first resurrection is the Second Coming where the saints are raised and no longer face the second death and given eternal life. The next one is of the wicked who will face the Lake of Fire and damnation in the second death. Being 'born again' takes you out of the 'condemnation' of sin but you still die as 'appointed' and turn to dust and wait for the resurrection. Its that simple...

 

[Hobie]

Well good. :)

Grace and peace to you.

Scripture gives it to us...
2 Peter 3:7-12
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Here we see that Peter designates the day of judgment as the time, and the earth as the place for the perdition (destruction) of ungodly men. In verses 10-12, he describes the condition of the earth at that time. “ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat ?”

This is the day of judgement at the Lake of Fire, everything that fire can consume is burned up, the destruction of 'ungodly men' is here.

 

[rwb]

The first resurrection is the Second Coming where the saints are raised and no longer face the second death and given eternal life. The next one is of the wicked who will face the Lake of Fire and damnation in the second death. Being 'born again' takes you out of the 'condemnation' of sin but you still die as 'appointed' and turn to dust and wait for the resurrection. Its that simple...

No the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ from the grave. He is the first resurrection that man MUST spiritually partake of to overcome the second death. Believers are overcomers in this life, not after we have died, then it will be too late to partake of Christ to overcome the second death.

How does one spiritually partake of Christ that they might overcome the second death? We MUST be born again of the Spirit of Christ. When we have been born again our body of flesh shall indeed die, but we who have partaken of Christ in life and have His Spirit within shall NEVER DIE! Praise God from whom all blessing flow, in Christ we are alive FOREVERMORE, and death of our flesh is simply a transition from our body of death and corruption to a spiritual body of believers in heaven.

FWIW, those who have done good and those who have done evil shall all be bodily resurrected from the graves at the same hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds. There shall not be a separation between the resurrection of the good and evil. There shall only be an order for who is resurrected from the graves first.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Hobie]

No the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ from the grave. He is the first resurrection that man MUST spiritually partake of to overcome the second death. Believers are overcomers in this life, not after we have died, then it will be too late to partake of Christ to overcome the second death.

How does one spiritually partake of Christ that they might overcome the second death? We MUST be born again of the Spirit of Christ. When we have been born again our body of flesh shall indeed die, but we who have partaken of Christ in life and have His Spirit within shall NEVER DIE! Praise God from whom all blessing flow, in Christ we are alive FOREVERMORE, and death of our flesh is simply a transition from our body of death and corruption to a spiritual body of believers in heaven.

FWIW, those who have done good and those who have done evil shall all be bodily resurrected from the graves at the same hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds. There shall not be a separation between the resurrection of the good and evil. There shall only be an order for who is resurrected from the graves first.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I think scripture is quite clear on this..

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[rwb]

I think scripture is quite clear on this..

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Remember Hobie numbering of verses and passages were added to aid our reading. "This is the first resurrection" is not the dead that shall not live again until the thousand years were finished. Those of the first resurrection are the blessed and holy, overcome the second death, priests of God and of Christ who shall reign with Him a thousand years. The rest of the dead are not among the blessed and holy people of God. Nor have the rest of the dead overcome the second death. The only thing the rest of the dead have in common with all of humanity is that they too live during this time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If they do not belong to the rest of the dead, and shall reign with Christ a thousand years, they have to be among those of vs 4 who were martyred for their faith. These called blessed and holy are not mentioned with those who have already lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years because they are not among those martyred living souls John writes have died, but are in fact alive in heaven.

In this chapter John is showing us the outcome for all of humanity. Those who before they physically died had already lived and reigned with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years. And those who also shall reign with Him during this time symbolized a thousand years, complete the full embodiment of all who shall have everlasting life through Christ. They are all who during their lives have been faithful unto death, and all who shall be faithful during their lifetime before time symbolized a thousand years is finished. All of these faithful saints partake of the first resurrection through the resurrection of Christ, because Christ is the resurrection and the life, and none will be eternally saved without partaking of His resurrection life by grace through faith.

The rest of the dead that shall not live again is every human that lives and dies without having part in the first resurrection. They shall all be resurrected to life again to stand before the GWT to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. And because their names will not be found in the book of life they will be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

Throughout this time symbolized a thousand years, the fate of all mankind is determined during this age of Gospel grace. All of mankind shall either be among those who live and reign with Christ during TIME symbolized a thousand years, OR in death they shall be in silence and darkness in the graves, knowing nothing until they hear the voice of Christ calling them to physical life again to stand before the GWTJ.

 

[Hobie]

Remember Hobie numbering of verses and passages were added to aid our reading. "This is the first resurrection" is not the dead that shall not live again until the thousand years were finished. Those of the first resurrection are the blessed and holy, overcome the second death, priests of God and of Christ who shall reign with Him a thousand years. The rest of the dead are not among the blessed and holy people of God. Nor have the rest of the dead overcome the second death. The only thing the rest of the dead have in common with all of humanity is that they too live during this time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If they do not belong to the rest of the dead, and shall reign with Christ a thousand years, they have to be among those of vs 4 who were martyred for their faith. These called blessed and holy are not mentioned with those who have already lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years because they are not among those martyred living souls John writes have died, but are in fact alive in heaven.

In this chapter John is showing us the outcome for all of humanity. Those who before they physically died had already lived and reigned with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years. And those who also shall reign with Him during this time symbolized a thousand years, complete the full embodiment of all who shall have everlasting life through Christ. They are all who during their lives have been faithful unto death, and all who shall be faithful during their lifetime before time symbolized a thousand years is finished. All of these faithful saints partake of the first resurrection through the resurrection of Christ, because Christ is the resurrection and the life, and none will be eternally saved without partaking of His resurrection life by grace through faith.

The rest of the dead that shall not live again is every human that lives and dies without having part in the first resurrection. They shall all be resurrected to life again to stand before the GWT to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. And because their names will not be found in the book of life they will be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

Throughout this time symbolized a thousand years, the fate of all mankind is determined during this age of Gospel grace. All of mankind shall either be among those who live and reign with Christ during TIME symbolized a thousand years, OR in death they shall be in silence and darkness in the graves, knowing nothing until they hear the voice of Christ calling them to physical life again to stand before the GWTJ.

This is where the saints are raised in the 'the resurrection of life' as we see from the words of Christ...

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

We see Jesus Christ taught two resurrections at the end. One of the righteous saints who he raises up and takes with him to heaven, and are reigning in heaven with Jesus. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." The wicked have been left behind and are dead on the earth and this is where the lay for the 1000 years. Although not explicitly stated, it is obvious the wicked dead are resurrected after the 1000 years from what it gives us, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection". (Rev 20:6) Specifying the "first" resurrection implies a second resurrection and this is the one of damnation.

So here we have the two resurrections at the end of time in a nutshell..
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And the first resurrection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear in the resurrection of the just. Then after the 1000 years the wicked are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire after they are resurrected in the resurrection of the unjust. So being in the first resurrection is important and only of the saints..

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[PinSeeker]

Here we see that Peter designates the day of judgment as the time, and the earth as the place for the perdition (destruction) of ungodly men. In verses 10-12, he describes the condition of the earth at that time. “ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat ?”

This is the day of judgement at the Lake of Fire, everything that fire can consume is burned up, the destruction of 'ungodly men' is here.

Hm. So you do seem to believe in annihilation. No, our God is a consuming fire, Hobie. Which should give you some relevant information concerning the lake of fire… Do you or do you not believe the wicked are annihilated and thus cease to exist after the final Judgment? Hopefully not…

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 corresponds to what happens for each individual born again of the Spirit; he or she is raised in newness of life and is seated with Christ in the heavenly places, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:5-7, each member of God’s elect at his or her appointed time. They still experience the first death, as does everyone, physical death, again, each at his or her time.

Everyone will experience the second resurrection at Christ’s return (John 5:28-29) ~ the spirit is reunited with the body ~ and all will face the final judgment.

And then yes, believers will not be subject to the second death; this will be the fate of the unbeliever, who will depart after the final Judgment obediently to a place where they are excluded from the New Heaven and New Earth… into a place under God’s judgment for eternity; this is the second ~ final, permanent ~ death. It will be a miserable existence… <shudder>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Hobie]

Hm. So you do seem to believe in annihilation. No, our God is a consuming fire, Hobie. Which should give you some relevant information concerning the lake of fire… Do you or do you not believe the wicked are annihilated and thus cease to exist after the final Judgment? Hopefully not…

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 corresponds to what happens for each individual born again of the Spirit; he or she is raised in newness of life and is seated with Christ in the heavenly places, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:5-7, each member of God’s elect at his or her appointed time. They still experience the first death, as does everyone, physical death, again, each at his or her time.

Everyone will experience the second resurrection at Christ’s return (John 5:28-29) ~ the spirit is reunited with the body ~ and all will face the final judgment.

And then yes, believers will not be subject to the second death; this will be the fate of the unbeliever, who will depart after the final Judgment obediently to a place where they are excluded from the New Heaven and New Earth… into a place under God’s judgment for eternity; this is the second ~ final, permanent ~ death. It will be a miserable existence… <shudder>

Grace and peace to you.

Ok, let me ask you a simple question.. Will sin continue during, or end at, the eternity of the Kingdom of God?

 

[PinSeeker]

Ok, let me ask you a simple question.. Will sin continue during, or end at, the eternity of the Kingdom of God?

I'm... not sure I understand... What do you mean by "the eternity of the Kingdom of God"? Ah, well, I'll answer the way I think I understand the question... No, in eternity, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will be no more sin. There will be no more sin or death. As Isaiah puts it (Isaiah 35:10), everlasting joy will be upon our heads, and all sorrow and sighing will flee away. Does that answer your question?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rwb]

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

We see Jesus Christ taught two resurrections at the end. One of the righteous saints who he raises up and takes with him to heaven, and are reigning in heaven with Jesus. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." The wicked have been left behind and are dead on the earth and this is where the lay for the 1000 years. Although not explicitly stated, it is obvious the wicked dead are resurrected after the 1000 years from what it gives us, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection". (Rev 20:6) Specifying the "first" resurrection implies a second resurrection and this is the one of damnation.

There shall be ONE physically resurrection of ALL the dead in the graves. You elected to omit when ALL the dead shall be resurrected "for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice." That's not two resurrections of ALL the dead in the graves as you imagine. It's the ONE resurrection in the hour coming
when the last trumpet begins to sound, and time given this earth shall be no longer.

The resurrection that is coming will not be a physical resurrection with Christ to heaven. The bodily resurrection to immortality & incorruption will be for physical life on the new earth. Those who have physically died in faith are already with the Lord in heaven as a spiritual body of believers. Their spirit shall return with the Lord to once again give physical life to their resurrected bodies of flesh. The resurrection of those in unbelief in "the hour coming" shall be to stand before the GWTJ to give account according to what is written in the books and because their names are not found written in the book of life they shall have part in the lake of fire that is the second death.

There are two resurrections mentioned in Scripture. The "first resurrection" that is the resurrection of Christ all of faith have part in before they physically die. Also the physical resurrection that shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time shall be no longer.

So here we have the two resurrections at the end of time in a nutshell..
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All of these verses show us the same ONE bodily resurrection of ALL who are in the graves in the hour that is coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time given this earth is no more.

And the first resurrection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear in the resurrection of the just. Then after the 1000 years the wicked are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire after they are resurrected in the resurrection of the unjust. So being in the first resurrection is important and only of the saints..

Yes, as I previously said, there is an order to the bodily resurrection that shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time given this earth shall be no longer. That shall be the resurrection of our body of flesh to everlasting life with Christ on the new earth, or resurrection for damnation in the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[Hobie]

There shall be ONE physically resurrection of ALL the dead in the graves. You elected to omit when ALL the dead shall be resurrected "for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice." That's not two resurrections of ALL the dead in the graves as you imagine. It's the ONE resurrection in the hour coming
when the last trumpet begins to sound, and time given this earth shall be no longer.

The resurrection that is coming will not be a physical resurrection with Christ to heaven. The bodily resurrection to immortality & incorruption will be for physical life on the new earth. Those who have physically died in faith are already with the Lord in heaven as a spiritual body of believers. Their spirit shall return with the Lord to once again give physical life to their resurrected bodies of flesh. The resurrection of those in unbelief in "the hour coming" shall be to stand before the GWTJ to give account according to what is written in the books and because their names are not found written in the book of life they shall have part in the lake of fire that is the second death.

There are two resurrections mentioned in Scripture. The "first resurrection" that is the resurrection of Christ all of faith have part in before they physically die. Also the physical resurrection that shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time shall be no longer.


All of these verses show us the same ONE bodily resurrection of ALL who are in the graves in the hour that is coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time given this earth is no more.



Yes, as I previously said, there is an order to the bodily resurrection that shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time given this earth shall be no longer. That shall be the resurrection of our body of flesh to everlasting life with Christ on the new earth, or resurrection for damnation in the lake of fire that is the second death.

I can only tell you what is it Gods Word and from the mouth of Christ and many see this as we find..."
Two future resurrections are described in the Bible. The first resurrection is mentioned in Revelation 20: "This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:5b-6). Those involved in the first resurrection will already be raised to life prior to the 1,000-year reign of Christ called the millennium.

This first resurrection includes those who return to life at the rapture as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (the "dead in Christ" and believers alive at the rapture) as well as the resurrected Christian martyrs from the end of the tribulation period mentioned in Revelation 20:4.

The second resurrection is described in Revelation 20:12-13: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done." This group will include those who are unbelievers who will be assigned by judgment to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

Between these two resurrections is the 1,000-year millennial kingdom. Believers reign with the Lord during this period and have already been resurrected. Unbelievers are described in Revelation 20:5 as, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended."

Therefore, the first resurrection is for the people of God; the second resurrection is for the judgment of unbelievers. The difference between these two groups is based on one's relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is essential for every person to hear the good news and be saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) to receive eternal life (John 3:16)."

 

[rwb]

I can only tell you what is it Gods Word and from the mouth of Christ and many see this as we find..."
Two future resurrections are described in the Bible. The first resurrection is mentioned in Revelation 20: "This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:5b-6). Those involved in the first resurrection will already be raised to life prior to the 1,000-year reign of Christ called the millennium.

Rev 20 speaks of only one physical resurrection of the dead! John writes the DEAD shall be bodily resurrected to stand before God at the GWT to give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Since the names of the DEAD shall not be written in the book of life, the DEAD shall be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

John also writes of the "first resurrection" that mankind before physical death must have part in to overcome the lake of fire that is the second death. The first resurrection is not mankind being bodily resurrected from the graves. That shall not happen until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds (Jo 5:28-29; 1Cor 15:51-54). The first resurrection is the physical resurrection of Christ that man must have part in before they physically die to overcome the second death. We partake of the resurrection life of Christ when we are spiritually made alive through the Spirit of Christ in us. No man is the first resurrection from the dead to never die again, Christ is! It is when we are made spiritually alive in Him that man has part in the first resurrection.

This first resurrection includes those who return to life at the rapture as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (the "dead in Christ" and believers alive at the rapture) as well as the resurrected Christian martyrs from the end of the tribulation period mentioned in Revelation 20:4.

Paul writes in 1Th 4:13-18 that those who have physically died in Christ, IOW those who before physical death had partaken of Christ "the first resurrection", return with Christ at His coming again. Their mortal bodies will be resurrected immortal and incorruptible from the graves when the Lord returns to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Then faithful saints who are still alive at His coming again shall be caught up together with them also bodily changed from mortal to immortal & corruptible to incorruptible.

Then shall come the end for this first earth when God sends down fire from heaven to utterly burn up everything left alive on the earth. And there will be a new heaven and new earth, the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:4 (KJV) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The second resurrection is described in Revelation 20:12-13: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done." This group will include those who are unbelievers who will be assigned by judgment to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

John is describing the one and only bodily resurrection of the DEAD that shall be in an hour that is coming. All that are in the graves shall be bodily resurrected then, but John here writes only of what shall be of the DEAD that had no part in the first resurrection, that is the resurrection of Christ. It is the DEAD, not the living that must stand before the throne of God. Yes, indeed, it shall be all who died in unbelief, NOT the faithful that had physically died. Those who had part in the first resurrection lived and reigned during their lifetimes with Christ, who is the first resurrection. Since in life they had been born again, made spiritually alive through Christ, they have no fear of the second death. Even though the faithful saints shall be called before the judgement seat of Christ (Ro. 14:10), it is only the DEAD that must give account before God according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. The saints of Christ shall be with Him, at His right hand (Acts 7:55-56; Mt 25:33), already clothed with immortality & incorruptible.

Anyone who has not or shall not live and reign with Christ before they physically die during this time symbolized a thousand years will be counted among the DEAD and be judged before God according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. They are in life the walking DEAD, and without Christ, also without hope of life everlasting.

Therefore, the first resurrection is for the people of God; the second resurrection is for the judgment of unbelievers. The difference between these two groups is based on one's relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is essential for every person to hear the good news and be saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) to receive eternal life (John 3:16)."

Do you believe that Christ did not speak truth to us when He says, "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"??? You must, since you think the eternal/never ending life Christ gives us through His Spirit in us dies when our flesh breathes its last! We HAVE eternal life now through His Spirit in us the moment we are born again! Paul writes we WERE DEAD IN SINS, he does not write we ARE dead in sins. Why? Because we have been quickened (made spiritually alive) together with Christ having part in the first resurrection that is the resurrection of Christ. We HAVE eternal spiritual life NOW, the moment we are born again of His Spirit, that shall NEVER DIE! Believers are NOW spiritually seated together with Christ in heavenly (celestial, above the sky), not of this earth but of heaven. Believers reside there spiritually alive forever through His Spirit in us.

Ephesians 2:5-6 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Zao is life]

Do you believe that Christ did not speak truth to us when He says, "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die

The words "of the body" and "in the body" do not appear in the English text, but are inherent in the meaning of the Greek words in the Greek text that it's translated from.

Do you believe that Christ did not speak the truth to us when He said, "He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live in the body [záō]. And whoever lives in the body [záō] AND believes in Me shall never die"

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John 11:21-27

"Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now, whatever You will ask of God, God will give You.

-- Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again, bodily [anístēmi]. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again [anístēmi] in the resurrection of the body [anástasis] at the last day.

Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection of the body [anástasis] and the (eternal) life [zōḗ]!

He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live in the body [záō]. And whoever lives in the body [záō] AND believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this? --

She said to Him, Yes, Lord, I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who has come into the world."
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Clearly you do not believe what Jesus actually said, but instead of what Jesus actually said you believe what you have changed Jesus' actual words to mean.

 

[Hobie]

I'm... not sure I understand... What do you mean by "the eternity of the Kingdom of God"? Ah, well, I'll answer the way I think I understand the question... No, in eternity, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will be no more sin. There will be no more sin or death. As Isaiah puts it (Isaiah 35:10), everlasting joy will be upon our heads, and all sorrow and sighing will flee away. Does that answer your question?

Grace and peace to you.

Yes, it will come to an end and so will sinners...