CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

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Ritajanice

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As is yours.

Hebrews 4:12​

King James Version​

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

.?

Genesis 1:2​


“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Therefore what is needed to have a Living spiritual relationship with God?
 
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JBO

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Hebrews 4:12​

King James Version​

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
And what do you think is meant by the phrase "the word of God" in Hebrews 4:12? Is it Christ? Is it the Bible? Is it something you imagine God said to you personally? What exactly is meant by that phrase?
.?

Genesis 1:2​


“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Therefore what is needed to have a Living relationship with God?
Is that what you learn from Genesis 1:2? Where does that come from? And just what is a living relationship with God?
 

Ritajanice

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And what do you think is meant by the phrase "the word of God" in Hebrews 4:12? Is it Christ? Is it the Bible? Is it something you imagine God said to you personally? What exactly is meant by that phrase?

Is that what you learn from Genesis 1:2? Where does that come from? And just what is a living relationship with God?
Aren’t you Born Of The Spirit?

Then you should know?

Living relationship with God via his Spirit is biblical...?

Why do we need to be Born Again, if not to have a relationship with our Father in heaven, via his Spirit.

We’re being made into the image of Jesus, who do you think has the power to do that?
 

JBO

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Aren’t you Born Of The Spirit?

Then you should know?
So then you don't know. OK
Living relationship with God via his Spirit is biblical...?

Why do we need to be Born Again, if not to have a relationship with our Father in heaven, via his Spirit.

We’re being made into the image of Jesus, who do you think has the power to do that?
My question was what is a living relationship with God? Or perhaps the better question is what you think a living relationship with God is. The reason that I ask is that I haven't seen that phrase in the NT. So I don't know what you are talking about. I need you to explain it.
 

Ritajanice

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So then you don't know. OK

My question was what is a living relationship with God? Or perhaps the better question is what you think a living relationship with God is. The reason that I ask is that I haven't seen that phrase in the NT. So I don't know what you are talking about. I need you to explain it.
Only God can explain it to you I can’t.

If you don’t understand why we need to be Born Again to have a Living relationship with God...sure as Henry I ain’t wasting any more time on you , I’m afraid as another member also said , you lack spiritual understanding/ knowledge and I’ve been praying that you receive it...

Bible verses related to Relationship With God from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance


- Sort By Book Order




John 1:10-13 - He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (Read More...)

Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 29:11 - For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

John 6:40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

James 4:6-10 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (Read More...)

1 Timothy 6:12-16 - Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. (Read More...)

John 15:5 - I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 6:55-59 - For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (Read More...)

1 Peter 3:18-22 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (Read More...)

Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Ephesians 6:14-20 - Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; (Read More...)

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

Ritajanice

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So then you don't know. OK

My question was what is a living relationship with God? Or perhaps the better question is what you think a living relationship with God is. The reason that I ask is that I haven't seen that phrase in the NT. So I don't know what you are talking about. I need you to explain it.
My question to you is...how can / do you grow in the Spirit?

What does food mean to you in the Bible?

How do we grow in Christ?

What food from God makes you grow?

What part of us needs to grow?

Have you been grafted into the true vine?

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
1 Corinthians 13:11, KJV


"Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men."
1 Corinthians 14:20, KJV


"That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;"
Ephesians 3:16, KJV


"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ . . . But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
Ephesians 4:13-15, 20-24, KJV


"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving."
Colossians 2:6-7, KJV


"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"
Colossians 3:9-10, KJV


"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:12-14, KJV


"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
Hebrews 6:1-2, KJV


"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:"
1 Peter 2:2, KJV


"Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."
2 Peter 3:17-18, KJV
 
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Red Baker

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Many Calvinist won't change their mind, no matter what anyone says because they actually believe that the TULIP doctrines are the gospel itself. They believe that if you reject the notion that God predestined child rape, then you've rejected the gospel itself.

It sounds impossible to believe; like I must surely be making that up but I assure you that I am not. They would never put it in such terms but it is what many of them believe.
Calvinism and Arminianism represent two great camps of “Christendom” that we are outside of in our desire to stick to scripture alone.

Historically and doctrinally, we are outside that great religious movement known as the Protestant Reformation, for it is still Roman.

Currently, we are outside the great body of modern “Christianity,” for it is fulfilling the prophecy of Christ, Paul and the apostles. (Matthew 24; 2nd Thess 2; and 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5, just to name a few. ).

Calvinism broadly used is a comprehensive theological system, given its name by its enemies mainly through the invention of the printing press.

So, sir where do you fall? and how quickly are folks like you likely to change their views on............

Arminianism...what is Arminianism?​

Arminianism essentially is a complete system of "conditional salvation" based upon man using inherent ability to perform conditions for it. Paul in Galatians one curses this system, in no uncertain words.

It is not improperly called theistic humanism – it glorifies man as the determiner of his destiny and yet tries to glorify God as well~which God will reject and curse per Galatians one.

God is limited by man’s concept of fairness: man is a very capable creature still, and he must be in total control of his destiny.

It begins with human rationalization about God that is comforting to the flesh rather than with God’s own revelation of Himself.

In general, this is a very palatable theology, in that it makes man precious, God uncontrollably in love, and salvation for the taking.

Arminianism will, and has proven to degenerate to modernism or other heresies, for God is lenient, and the need to save the lost justifies any means.

Arminianism began with Satan’s lie in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve, which contradicted God’s revelation and damned the race.

In defiance and denial of God’s revelation, Satan convinced Eve that she would not surely die if she ate of the fruit (Genesis 3:1-4).

Satan convinced her that she could sacramentally become just like God by her own personal act in taking the fruit (Genesis 3:5-6).

Consider that Armininians today still try to peddle the lie that man is not dead by his sin in Eden, just like their father the devil.

Adam and Eve, just like Arminians today, sewed fig leaves together in their own vain attempt to cover their terrible sin (Gen 3:7).

It showed itself in the New Testament with proud Jews and skeptical Greeks (Luk 4:25-29; John 6:64-66; 8:33-34; Rom 3:5,8; 9:14,19).

Pelagius, a Welsh monk, began the systematic spread of Pelagianism, an early version of Arminianism, around the early 400’s.

He denied original sin, a depraved nature, representation by either Adam or Christ, and the need for special grace to be saved.

He held the innocence of human children, man’s freedom of will, and the possibility of achieving perfection in this life. Augustine stood up against him. google to read.....

The Roman Catholics declared very Arminian principles at the Council of Trent in 1546 i.e. maintaining freewill and sacramentalism.
Read the anathemas pronounced in the Sixth Session of Trent against God’s grace in salvation and the freewill of man. Click here.

James Arminius (1560-1609) began the systematic spread of Arminianism in the early 1600s, as he rebelled against state Calvinism.

As a university professor in Leiden, Arminius questioned Calvin’s theology in several points, publishing and preaching against it.

In 1610, his followers issued a remonstrance to the government of Holland against the Calvinistic doctrine of the state church.

Man is not so corrupted by sin that he is unable to cooperate with God in performing conditions for his salvation to eternal life.

Man’s election to salvation is conditional upon God forseeing his faith and perseverance and confirming him thereby to eternal life.

Jesus Christ’s death potentially provided for the salvation of all men upon conditions, but it did not surely secure salvation for any.

Man is able to resist the work of the Holy Spirit in applying the effects of Christ’s death to men, as salvation is only an offer.

The conditions for final salvation include continuing in faith and good works until death, for sin will cause you to lose salvation.

Since Arminius, John Wesley, Charles Finney, D.L. Moody, Billy Graham, Jack Hyles, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, and many more past and present like them have taught decisional regeneration as the deciding issue that renders the love of God and death of Christ effective.

Conclusion: you can have your work gospel that does not exalt Jesus Christ, but puts man in control and the crown of glory on his head, not Christ's, where it only belongs.
 
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Ritajanice

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And what do you think is meant by the phrase "the word of God" in Hebrews 4:12? Is it Christ? Is it the Bible? Is it something you imagine God said to you personally? What exactly is meant by that phrase?
Gods Spirit is Alive and Active?

Something I imagine God said to me personally?

What are you talking about....it’s his word spoken to us all in the Spirit?

Gods word is not contained?

What’s his word spoken to us in, if it’s not by his Spirit?

How else can God speak to his children, if not by his Spirit?

Online commentary may help you in your understanding of spiritual matters.

Developing Spiritual Eyes and Ears to See and Hear the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God​


Published May 10, 2018
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Born again Spirit filled believers who confess that Jesus is the Son of God and who continually are filled with the Spirit of the Lord, have the God given ability to accurately hear and see into the spirit realm. The Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit has come and is always leading and guiding us, but we have to be willing to hear and to see with spiritual discernment. It is written in John 16:13 “but when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.” (NASB) And it is written in Romans 8:14 “for all who are being led by the spirit of God, these are the Sons of God.” (NASB)
In Matthew 13:16 Jesus said unto his disciples, “but blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear.” (NASB) In the preceding verse 11 Jesus told his disciples “to you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.” (NASB) Our spiritual eyes are blessed to see and our spiritual ears are blessed to hear. Unto us it is given the spiritual ability to accurately discern, hear, and see spiritual things with clarity; to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God. It is written in 1 John 2:20 “but you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.” (NKJV) Our born again Spirits have the God-given ability to see and hear spiritual things and principles with clarity and accuracy.
This God-given ability to see and hear spiritual things with clarity depends on our willingness to humble ourselves before God and to submit to his Spirit, the Word, and his ways. We must cultivate a lifestyle of submission to the Spirit of the Lord and his Word. In Acts 6:2-4, the apostles said it was not good to neglect the Word, that they must devote themselves to prayer and ministry of the Word, and that men filled with the Spirit were to be appointed to serve the ministry of helps. The impact of these decisions to place the Word and Spirit first, led to signs, wonders, miracles, the Word increasing, and exponential multiplication on the numbers of believers. The book of Acts records many instances on the impact of submission to the leading and guiding of the Spirit of the Lord. According to Acts 17:6, these Spirit and Word led men and women turned the world upside down.
How do we develop and fine tune our spiritual eyes and ears? It is very simple. In John 6:63 Jesus said that his words were spirit and life. And it is written in John 1:1 “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (NASB) It all begins with the Word of God which he has exalted above his name, which endures forever, which will never pass away, and feeds very life of God into our spirits. As we exalt the Word of God, giving it first place in our lives by continually hearing it, seeing it, reading it, meditating upon it, praying it, and doing it, our real selves, the spirit man or woman in us, will begin to grow and build itself up gaining ascendancy over the voices of our soul and flesh. Spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned through the spirit and not the soul or the flesh. It is written in 1 Corinthians 2:14 “but the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (KJV) There is much more which can be written on how the human spirit, soul, and flesh operates; and how to rise up and continually let the spirit of the Lord in union with your spirit cause our spirits to submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit. But these principles will follow separately in other writings.
A second step to take in fine tuning our spiritual eyes and ears is building up ourselves praying in the Spirit. It is written in Jude 20 “but you beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit.” (NASB) This is a spiritual mystery that taps into the very power and life of God which infuses our spirit man or woman with God’s life. Helping us to be strengthen with the very might of God to empower our spirits to rightly discern the soul and spirit, and to gain mastery over our natural tendency to allow our physical senses, the flesh, to rule over our Spirits.
There are a number of other steps which are crucial in developing spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear, but for brevity in this article will follow in other posts. In closing, it is imperative to understand that developing spiritual eyes and ears is also very dependent on how much time we give to hear, meditate, and spiritually study these spiritual principles. It is written in Mark 4:24-28 “and He said to them, be careful what you are hearing. The measure [of thought and study] you give [to the truth you hear] will be the measure [of virtue and knowledge] that comes back to you—and more [besides] will be given to you who hear. For to him who has will more be given; and from him who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away [by force], and He said, the kingdom of God is like a man who scatters seed upon the ground, and then continues sleeping and rising night and day while the seed sprouts and grows and increases—he knows not how. The earth produces [acting] by itself—first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.” (AMPC) Cultivating a daily lifestyle of giving the Word and Spirit first place in your life, will develop your spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear spiritual things with clarity.
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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This above is a commentary he found online....you should give the commentators name when you post stuff like this..not take the credit for yourself.
Okay Rita,

I have been looking and looking and have found pages, upon pages of links to how the Holy Spirit works and I find no singular commentary that is all in one. Though the following are great reads and certainly helpful on
knowing the Holy Spirit and how He works in us.

Can you point me to it?


















I also checked under Calvin and the Holy Spirit. St. Augustine and the Holy Spirit. So please give me the link you are talking about.

Oh and also checked into

The very idea that God, through the Holy Spirit, is incapable of communicating effectively with the unregenerate is mind boggling.

only because there has been some commentary regarding that and the results fell in the links already
posted.

If you want I can post more... but likely will run out of space
 

Ritajanice

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Okay Rita,

I have been looking and looking and have found pages, upon pages of links to how the Holy Spirit works and I find no singular commentary that is all in one. Though the following are great reads and certainly helpful on
knowing the Holy Spirit and how He works in us.

Can you point me to it?


















I also checked under Calvin and the Holy Spirit. St. Augustine and the Holy Spirit. So please give me the link you are talking about.

Oh and also checked into

The very idea that God, through the Holy Spirit, is incapable of communicating effectively with the unregenerate is mind boggling.

only because there has been some commentary regarding that and the results fell in the links already
posted.

If you want I can post more... but likely will run out of space
If he posted that commentary, then he needs to explain what it means?

He never does..he always comes up with the words it’s self explanatory?

If it was his own commentary as he says it is.then I apologise.....but, then again he should answer questions on it?

He evades spiritual questions/ biblical questions..?
 
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Ritajanice

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The very idea that God, through the Holy Spirit, is incapable of communicating effectively with the unregenerate is mind boggling.
I said those without the Spirit don’t belong to God, that’s his word?

How would God communicate with you without being Born of the Spirit?
.as in with spiritual eyes and ears, where do they come from?

Of course he draws us to Jesus, the unregenerate , but ,in order to have a spiritual relationship with him, we must be Born of the Spirit?

Our spirit needs to be Born Again?




Why is it mind boggling?...He never communicated with me when I was unregenerate, he didn’t recognise me as his own, not until he decided to make my spirit Born Again?

What do you think Born Again means?

I think you said Born Again doesn’t make sense to you?

My question is why not?

If you have been Born Of The Spirit?
 
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Ritajanice

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My question was what is a living relationship with God?
And my answer is..if you are Born Of The Spirit..then you should know that?

By what means would you know?

Do you actually understand your own commentary that you say is yours?

How does a Born Again have a Living relationship with God via his Spirit....you said at one time we don’t have a Living relationship with God?

Why do we need to be Born Again then?
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I said those without the Spirit don’t belong to God, that’s his word?

How would God communicate with you without being Born of the Spirit?

Why is it mind boggling?...He never communicated with me when I was unregenerate, he didn’t recognise me as his own, not until he decided to make my spirit Born Again?

What do you think Born Again means?

I think you said Born Again doesn’t make sense to you?

My question is why not?

If you have been Born Of The Spirit?
Sigh... Ok Rita.

I see a little problem here.

There was one who had made the statement "The very idea that God, through the Holy Spirit, is incapable of communicating effectively with the unregenerate is mind boggling." NOT ME.

I will try to find that for you........ but since I was trying to find the commentary of @JBO and doing all that reading and looking I thought to check into a lot of the things that I had yet to do.

Rita, I say this with sisterly love.... you need to slow down your reading because this is one example where you jumped to the wrong conclusion about thinking it was my thoughts and just not research to respond.

FOR YOU INFORMATION I AM "BORN AGAIN" AND AM "HOLY SPIRIT" FILLED

But I can tell you that before I was conscious of being born again...that is my spirit.... God the Father had my back in two ways that are between Him and me.... Of this I cannot doubt.... so when He wants to, with whomever, he will.

As to JBOs commentary, might I suggest you re-read it again... slowly this time... a sentence at a time and see if it truly does not make sense to you, because it does to me....

One question before I leave.

Are you a predestination person... either under Calvins beliefs or something else?
 

Ritajanice

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Sigh... Ok Rita.

I see a little problem here.

There was one who had made the statement "The very idea that God, through the Holy Spirit, is incapable of communicating effectively with the unregenerate is mind boggling." NOT ME.

I will try to find that for you........ but since I was trying to find the commentary of @JBO and doing all that reading and looking I thought to check into a lot of the things that I had yet to do.

Rita, I say this with sisterly love.... you need to slow down your reading because this is one example where you jumped to the wrong conclusion about thinking it was my thoughts and just not research to respond.

FOR YOU INFORMATION I AM "BORN AGAIN" AND AM "HOLY SPIRIT" FILLED

But I can tell you that before I was conscious of being born again...that is my spirit.... God the Father had my back in two ways that are between Him and me.... Of this I cannot doubt.... so when He wants to, with whomever, he will.

As to JBOs commentary, might I suggest you re-read it again... slowly this time... a sentence at a time and see if it truly does not make sense to you, because it does to me....

One question before I leave.

Are you a predestination person... either under Calvins beliefs or something else?
My advice to you is..you also take your own advice you gave me.

And yes I was chosen / predestined to be Born Again...a Born Again does not choose to be Born Again.

Do you believe you chose to be Born Again?

Only the Spirit of God who is hovering everywhere ,or is everywhere, can make us Born Again, that is a supernatural act that only God can do...Spirit gives birth to spirit.
 
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