CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[Behold]

one cannot deny his deity of being God manifest in the flesh.

You are rewriting 2 John 1:7
This verse does not say that if you deny Christ's Deity, you are anti-Christ.
So, whatever Church is teaching you, (or commentary), that the verse is talking about the Deity of Christ being denied, is not telling you the truth.
So, don't teach what isn't true.

The verse says that if the person does not agree that the MESSIAH, that Jesus Himself, has come "in the flesh".. then that person has a spirit that is not of God.

There is a CULT theology "out there" that teaches that you must agree with the TRINITY Theology, or the "Deity of Christ" Theology, or you are not saved, or similar
In fact, while the Deity of Christ is a FACT.. its not a required belief, that determines your Salvation.

 

[Ritajanice]

Anmd there is no scripture that says He does. But plenty of Scripture that speaks of God sanctifying us, loving us and giving us much more now that we have become His children. all the verses on love and grace and mercy and patience and teaching and sanctifying go against teh concept God would harden the heart of His children.

Then I will ask God to show me my error, that he doesn’t harden believers hearts....I want his truth...I don’t want to be stubborn and not listen to what he’s saying...your post above did speak to my heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

Then I apologize, I only reacted to your emoji. I do not put words in your mouth and avoid that at all costs unless the conclusions of ones writing leads to it.

I do not think you could find an example where I put words in anothers mouth that if I did falsely, I did not apologize.

I do draw the conclusions that several here teach one has to not sin in order to be or stayed saved. It is based on their writings because they stubbornly refuse to answer the very clear questions I ask of them.

I think I may have over reacted...where do we sin then?

If we have been Born Again of imperishable seed?

I want to hear God’s truth not my truth.

 

[Red Baker]

You are rewriting 2 John 1:7
This verse does not say that if you deny Christ's Deity, you are anti-Christ.
So, whatever Church is teaching you, (or commentary), that the verse is talking about the Deity of Christ being denied, is not telling you the truth.
So, don't teach what isn't true.

The verse says that if the person does not agree that the MESSIAH, that Jesus Himself, has come "in the flesh".. then that person has a spirit that is not of God.

There is a CULT theology "out there" that teaches that you must agree with the TRINITY Theology, or the "Deity of Christ" Theology, or you are not saved, or similar
In fact, while the Deity of Christ is a FACT.. its not a required belief, that determines your Salvation.

Why do you not take this to another thread and I will come there to discuss this in depth~would love to do so.

I will only say this: if any man denies that Jesus was not God manifest in the flesh, then he is not of God.

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

 

[Red Baker]

In fact, while the Deity of Christ is a FACT.. its not a required belief, that determines your Salvation.

I would say, that understanding the complex nature of Jesus Christ is not a prerequisite to being born again. But, one cannot flat our deny his Godhead and be born of God.

 

[Behold]

I will only say this: if any man denies that Jesus was not God manifest in the flesh, then he is not of God.

You can't prove that with a Bible.
Why not?
Because NO VERSE in the NEW TESTAMENT even suggests that "you must believe in the TRINITY, to be saved".

Its deceived HERETICS who teach that junk theology nonsense.

That is JOHN CALVINISM ROT... and his Associates.

See, it was Calvin and His Group of European Nut Bars, who burned a born again believer to DEATH... for not agreeing with "Deity of Christ" Theology.

So their DEED (MURDER)..= was the one that is terrible, not the believer's, who didnt yet agree with "deity of Christ" theology.
He might have, later., or not. Probably not .
Calvin and his Crew, burned this man to death, for not believing in Christ's Deity.

JESUS WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE THIS..

Satan is still laughing about it.

Do you understand @Red Baker ??

Figure out why, if you think you can....

So, its good to know that Jesus is God in the Flesh, and its good to believe it.. I DO.. and i teach it... But it not required by God that you must believe in the Deity of Christ.

Here is what is REQUIRED, if you want to die and go to heaven.

JESUS SAID... "YOU>. .MUST>.. BE>.. BORN.. .Again".

And water baptism, need not apply.

 

[Red Baker]

You can't prove that with a Bible.
Why not?
Because NO VERSE in the NEW TESTAMENT even suggests that "you must believe in the TRINITY, to be saved".

Its deceived HERETICS who teach that junk theology nonsense.

That is JOHN CALVINISM ROT... and his Associates.

See, it was Calvin and His Group of European Nut Bars, who burned a born again believer to DEATH... for not agreeing with "Deity of Christ" Theology.

So their DEED (MURDER)..= was the one that is terrible, not the believer's, who didnt yet agree with "deity of Christ" theology.
He might have, later., or not. Probably not .
Calvin and his Crew, burned this man to death, for not believing in Christ's Deity.

JESUS WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE THIS..

Satan is still laughing about it.

Do you understand @Red Baker ??

Figure out why, if you think you can....

So, its good to know that Jesus is God in the Flesh, and its good to believe it.. I DO.. and i teach it... But it not required by God that you must believe in the Deity of Christ.

Here is what is REQUIRED, if you want to die and go to heaven.

JESUS SAID... "YOU>. .MUST>.. BE>.. BORN.. .Again".

And water baptism, need not apply.

Thank you for your input~I do understand that Michael Servetus' understanding was actually very close to mine.

 

[Red Baker]

You can't prove that with a Bible.
Why not?
Because NO VERSE in the NEW TESTAMENT even suggests that "you must believe in the TRINITY, to be saved".

Its deceived HERETICS who teach that junk theology nonsense.

That is JOHN CALVINISM ROT... and his Associates.

See, it was Calvin and His Group of European Nut Bars, who burned a born again believer to DEATH... for not agreeing with "Deity of Christ" Theology.

So their DEED (MURDER)..= was the one that is terrible, not the believer's, who didnt yet agree with "deity of Christ" theology.
He might have, later., or not. Probably not .
Calvin and his Crew, burned this man to death, for not believing in Christ's Deity.

JESUS WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE THIS..

Satan is still laughing about it.

Do you understand @Red Baker ??

Figure out why, if you think you can....

So, its good to know that Jesus is God in the Flesh, and its good to believe it.. I DO.. and i teach it... But it not required by God that you must believe in the Deity of Christ.

Here is what is REQUIRED, if you want to die and go to heaven.

JESUS SAID... "YOU>. .MUST>.. BE>.. BORN.. .Again".

And water baptism, need not apply.

Thank you for your input~I do understand that Michael Servetus' beliefs were similar to mine, in that he believe in the incarnate sonship not that Jesus was eternally begotten~but, what he actually believe we may never know since his works were burned with him. Sorry for the double posts.

 

[Behold]

Thank you for your input~I do understand that Michael Servetus' understanding was actually very close to mine.

He was a human being who God loved.
Just like God loves you and us all.
We know that God loved Servetus, because God sent His only Begotten Son to The Cross for Servetus.
We know that Jesus loved Servetus, because Jesus died for Him.

Calvin and his cohort nu-bars... MURDERED Servetus.........because of a "theological disagreement".

They burned Him, when He was alive, and they enjoyed it when He screamed from the pain, until his voice could not scream anymore.
So, its not just the "Dark age" Church, that loves to burn people....its also, CALVIN and associates.

As far as i can tell, we are not supposed to MURDER people, for any reason.
Calvin and these Religious Nuts, forgot that one.

 

[Behold]

Thank you for your input~I do understand that Michael Servetus' beliefs were similar to mine, in that he believe in the incarnate sonship not that Jesus was eternally begotten~but, what he actually believe we may never know since his works were burned with him. Sorry for the double posts.

Post at will.

And yes... We can't know that Servetus would not have eventually read John 1:10 and Colossians 1:16, and 2 Timothy 3:16, and realized that Jesus is God in the Flesh.
He may have also read the verse that Jesus spoke that says...>"I am from ABOVE and you are from BELOW", and as all these verses combined as LIGHT for Him...he might have eventually seen the LIGHT>. of Revelation.

See, Christians learn as they go. They learn as they SEE IT.. and until you see it, you don't.
They burned this man, perhaps before he would have come to the revelation.
But even if he was screaming from the Mountain Top...."i dont believe in the TRINITY".... He still had the Right to keep breathing.
God gave Him Life and free will, and so it is with us all....we get to choose what we believe, and that is why Christians change theology, as they are given more time and more LIGHT of Revelation.
He was cut off, murdered, before he might have seen more LIGHT.

 

[Red Baker]

Post at will.

And yes... We can't know that Servetus would not have eventually read John 1:10 and Colossians 1:16, and 2 Timothy 3:16, and realized that Jesus is God in the Flesh.
He may have also read the verse that Jesus spoke that says...>"I am from ABOVE and you are from BELOW", and as all these verses combined as LIGHT for Him...he might have eventually seen the LIGHT>. of Revelation.

See, Christians learn as they go. They learn as they SEE IT.. and until you see it, you don't.
They burned this man, perhaps before he would have come to the revelation.
But even if he was screaming from the Mountain Top...."i dont believe in the TRINITY".... He still had the Right to keep breathing.
God gave Him Life and free will, and so it is with us all....we get to choose what we believe, and that is why Christians change theology, as they are given more time and more LIGHT of Revelation.
He was cut off, murdered, before he might have seen more LIGHT.

My point is this: maybe he did see, and it was them who were in error, we will never know, since there are no writings that we can compare to the scriptures that he taught. I understand, that no one deserves to die over their understanding, no one. Not even witches, soothsayers, etc.

 

[Behold]

My point is this: maybe he did see, and it was them who were in error,

Look at John 1:10.

"Jesus was in the world and the world was made by or through = Him"

WHat does that mean?
It means.. Colossians 1:16
It means that the very first baby step that the Lord Jesus took with His tiny little feet, was DEITY touching the ground with those tiny little feet.

This is why Jesus told you.. "if you've seen ME.. you've Seen the Father".,

Why?

Because "I and my Father are ONE">.

And it just keeps going, and i could show you so much more, but this particular Forum, has a low tolerance level for this particular discussion, so, i will leave you there.

 

[JBO]

This above is a commentary he found online....you should give the commentators name when you post stuff like this..not take the credit for yourself.

That is just your opinion. And no, It is not anything I found online. But you really should read it. It could help you understand things a little better than you do now.

 

[Ritajanice]

The main way the Spirit works on the heart of an unbeliever is through the inspired message of the Bible

No it’s not...the main way God works on the heart of an unbeliever is through his “ Living “ word...God is Spirit, he not a book...therefore he draws his predestined children to Jesus through his Spirit, which is Alive and Active..something you have no spiritual knowledge of.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is just your opinion. And no, It is not anything I found online. But you really should read it. It could help you understand things a little better than you do now.

I don’t agree with any stuff you post as it’s manmade nonsense.

 

[Logikos]

My personal opinion is that both Robert and you are spot on.

It has always bothered me the predestined to hell idea.

He did not need to be the founder of this idea but he is the one who brought it to the forefront and exploding in such a way that I have never met a Calvinist or predestined person willing or wanting to change their minds for somehow they all are comforted with their beliefs.

Carry on

Many Calvinist won't change their mind, no matter what anyone says because they actually believe that the TULIP doctrines are the gospel itself. They believe that if you reject the notion that God predestined child rape, then you've rejected the gospel itself.

It sounds impossible to believe; like I must surely be making that up but I assure you that I am not. They would never put it in such terms but it is what many of them believe.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Many Calvinist won't change their mind, no matter what anyone says because they actually believe that the TULIP doctrines are the gospel itself. They believe that if you reject the notion that God predestined child rape, then you've rejected the gospel itself.

It sounds impossible to believe; like I must surely be making that up but I assure you that I am not. They would never put it in such terms but it is what many of them believe.

Yes, I absolutely believe you

 

[Logikos]

Of course, all spiritual hymns are written by men~yet, they are called spiritual for reason by godly minds, because they glorify God and a great comfort to spiritual minded children of God, a fruit of the Spirit of God you seem to be void of.


Rella, have you ever read 1st Peter 1:2 and compare that with other scriptures?

To be short, asked yourself what was in God's foreknowledge? We know that God did not forsee man's good works, or, his willingness to love and serve God after the fall (or even before the fall, he knew both angels and flesh and blood would sin when left to themselves, for God alone is immutable and cannot be tempted to evil) so many scriptures refutes that false theory.

So, what did God in his infinite knowledge understand about both angels and man? He knew that "unless" he had an election by grace alone no angels or man would ever come to the knowledge of the truth to love and serve him! So, God had a perfect way to be just yet at the same time a justifier of sinners, (though the elect angels never sin, so they cannot appreciate the love of God to the same degree that we can in glory) through Jesus Christ is perfect obedience Son, who gave his life for God's elect.

God knowing this, was not under obligation to save any, much less, thousand of millions~Genesis 24:60.

God created Adam upright, placed him in a beautiful perfect world with one little commandment to obey with a beautiful wife to enjoy, yet he sinned the very hour God left them to themselves! If there's blame to be placed put it where it belongs at the feet of our first parents!

Are you, or anyone else (I'm certainly not going to do so) tell God that he is not fair in showing grace to all of Adam's race? Are you thinking why does God yet find fault with me, since it was Adam that sin?

We all stood in Adam in his glorious state in which God created him without a sinful natures keeping him from obeying! Besides, God's way of creating, and allowing Adam to be our representative before him was the absolute perfect opportunity for all to earn eternal life through the first Adam IF life could have been earned by flesh and blood by creation of man.

But eternal life was earned by the second Adam sent to redeemed God's elect who was God's only begotten Son~he secured eternal life by being made a surety for God's elect, being the head of an elect body whose members where chosen in him before the foundation of the world. Enough said for now.

Before Augustine, there was Paul and the other apostles~but the greatest of all Jesus Christ, clearly taught this same truth. John 15:16; Matthew 16:17; other such scriptures as:

I agree Calvin never invented unconditional election by pure grace, was the second (behind Luther) most powerful vocal voice during the reformation of the 1500's plus as you related to ~ systematically organized the doctrines of the Christian Religion at that time in his Institutes of the Christian religion, written at a young age of 27!

God is just, therefore your doctrine is false!

QED

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

They believe that if you reject the notion that God predestined child rape, then you've rejected the gospel itself.

That's because they apparently think God and the devil are the same guy

 

[JBO]

I don’t agree with any stuff you post as it’s manmade nonsense.

As is yours.