Short answer - WE can separate ourselves from our everlasting security. Nobody else can do it. God's love for us is everlasting, but His judgement is everlasting as well - even though He loves us. We can fail to choose to obey God and go the way of man.
Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?
- Thread starter Raccoon1010
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Addressing the OP question:
With so many counterfeit Christs in the world and so many false doctrines, the focus should rather be on getting these right rather than worrying about the nuts and bolts of salvation. Once saved (means having faith in the genuine Jesus). Emphasis on: are we even saved in the first place?
- human beings by (fallen) nature choose to believe untruth
- people feel the need to avoid guilt yet try to take responsibility especially when they are helpless to do anything (this is where works salvation comes from)
- in the face of unmerited grace or gifts, most feel obligated to return the favor even when they are incapable
- others see holding salvation over the heads of others as a means to gain power over them
- some just cannot get their heads around God's total forgiveness and they will argue against scripture and reality
With so many counterfeit Christs in the world and so many false doctrines, the focus should rather be on getting these right rather than worrying about the nuts and bolts of salvation. Once saved (means having faith in the genuine Jesus). Emphasis on: are we even saved in the first place?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I guess you have missed this:
1 Jn 1:8–10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
It is because of this truth that we can "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." IF we deny that we have to remain in the faith and in obedience to God to ever be expected to be in the Lamb's Book of Life, the last day may come as a shock.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?
Because they're sure you're having fun and they want you to be as neurotic as they are?
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Wow that was a mean looking wolf in that first video so that must mean Charles Stanley must be guilty and a charlatan! Are you out of your mind? This is your source? Ha!
I know that you had to misunderstand what came out of Charles Stanlry's mouth in that video. It can be easy to fail in our comprehension at times when they have the floor chanting death to the stanley or whatever in our ear but just try to comprehend.
Charles Stanley was talking about Repentant gay people who have come to Christ and given Him their life and walk with Him in His ways. He wasn't talking about a dog that returns to its own vomit will get into heaven.
Do I even have to watch the other ones or are they the same? I think these videos are published to create strife and distractions to Christian Brothers and Sisters and the churches gatherings and forums! And there is a great division happening right now all over.
Geez and we could'a been talking on the finer points of spiritual warfare and the real power of prayer instead. Something valuable. I know you are all against Charles Stanley
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Besides, there's too many warnings in scripture about turning away from God after we have been enlightened and saved. The Lord is faithful and just to forgive us for the sins if we confess them and ask for forgiveness. But if you dont confess them and ask forgiveness, and then die, you would die in your sins and be lost.
I fear God, myself. He spoke to me audibly one time and tod me to pray for someone and instead of saying yes Lord, and doing it I began asking questions and the Lord didn't say thing to it but He changed His tone of voice into that terrifying Parental voice that we all are well aquiainted with, lol. Audibly from the Lord in that tone was...absolutely terrifying.
I fear God, myself. He spoke to me audibly one time and tod me to pray for someone and instead of saying yes Lord, and doing it I began asking questions and the Lord didn't say thing to it but He changed His tone of voice into that terrifying Parental voice that we all are well aquiainted with, lol. Audibly from the Lord in that tone was...absolutely terrifying.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Bullseye, Brother! The Lord does not walk away from us for He said He will never leave us or forsake us. But when one makes the decision to do something that is in the way of the world it is then that we walk away from Him! Might as well say we dont need Him! Right?
God forbid. The short answer is, we will die apart from God. So we must be diligent to not walk away from the Lord...ever.
Many is the times I have said, I dont know what you're doing Lord but it seems beyond my capacity so please help me. Especially after we have sinned. This is the reason that King David is called a man after God's own heart. David did not run away from God.
If a man walks away from God to make his own decisions in life and dies without reconciing himself to the Lord then he is probably dead in his sins. Too many warnings in scripture to ignore.
But is not being saved dependent upon retaining the proper foundation:
| 1co 3:11 | For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. |
Exactly.
Only the slow ones that listen to the devil's temptations to turn away from the Lord and go back to living after the flesh and the pleasures of this world.
You should make a note to yourselfs... endeavor to not do this!
"Having fun" is code for living in sin for the OSAS people
Gnarly Charlie clearly said that one can be a christian and be gay at the same time.
Stickin yo head in the sand does not make what he said right... he is teaching another jesus and a different gospel. Enjoy!
OK, some translations say will forgive, others say might forgive. Either way, it supports "work out our salvation with fear and trembling."
I see from that the given warnings to walk in the spirit and endure to the end is still applicable. Is there something I am missing?
I see from that the given warnings to walk in the spirit and endure to the end is still applicable. Is there something I am missing?
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Notice in Philippians 2:12 that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and NOT "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work out" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ.
This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. In verse 13, Paul goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1)
Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, ongoing sanctification is a process.
In regard to "fear and trembling," it pertains to a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 2:11; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up and throw me into hell for not being "good enough." That is an unhealthy fear of bondage and insecurity which is not from above!
Paul uses the same phrase "fear and trembling" in 2 Corinthians 7:15 in which he refers to Titus as being encouraged by the reception of him by the Corinthians "with fear and trembling," that is, with humility and respect for his position as a minister of Jesus Christ. In 1 Corinthians 2:3, we see that Paul himself came to the Corinthian church in "weakness and fear, and with much trembling" in regard to the huge responsibility and critical importance of the work which he was engaged in.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely taste, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
Ritajanice
Born-Again
How can we remain in the faith...when faith remains, grows ,matures in our spirit?
You must know that Faith is a gift from God, a manifestation of the Spirit.
So, where does God given faith manifest itself?
We are Born Again and a Born Again doesn’t continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever....where does the seed liveth and abideth forever in?
What part of us is Born Again?
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 KJV
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
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Thank you for your response, brother. However, I still don't see an answer explaining why we have a multitude of verses warning up to endure to the end and to be obedient if we love Christ Jesus. Am I to infer that you think that no conscious effort from us is required? I think Paul had to address that attitude with the Romans.
Ro 6:1–4 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
One of the issues with our understanding is that so many think that they are already "saved." The term is no in the past tense - it is in the present. We are "being saved." It is a life-long process that requires we "work out our salvation." Yes, we are justified by God's mercy when we come to belief in God and in His Son. God provides grace for us afterwards.
But, we don't stop there. We are expected to walk in truth - be sanctified. We ask God for truth (sadly some don't pursue truth from God but from man). Jesus, in His "High Priestly Prayer" said:
Jn 17:15–19 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.
While we live after justification, we are expected to be sanctified by the grace of God in learning truth. It is that truth that helps us to walk in faith for the times that trials come upon us.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Do you not see the conditional statement here? Or should I phrase the question: What if he does not stand the test?
Oh, how I wish my conversations were face-to-face so I am be sure of the question. See, I thought I had already answered this, but I apparently did not.
When you were called by God to see His Son, that results in your faith. I suppose you could call that a "manifestation of the Spirit." We are speak according to how our minds work.
Your faith manifests itself in seeking truth from God, which He will provide to those who diligently seek it. That truth this manifests itself as obedience and the ability to walk according to God's spirit.
God's spirit in you serves to prepare you for the transition from your mortal self to your glorious self. When that happens, you are "born again" with a body that will not sin. It will no longer contain the fallen nature that all of us on Earth have to squelch in order to follow Christ. That indwelling spirit is an imperishable seed that ultimately leads us, if we don't give up, to a new glorified immortal body. That is when we are born again. Until then, we are "being saved."
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I see it, we are Born Again then we are saved from eternal damnation....the Holy Spirit keeps us saved.
We are Born of the Spirit, therefore can never be unsaved...it’s our spirit that is Born Again...we’re in the Spirit and the Spirit in us...he’s in our spirit, he brought our spirit Alive in Christ.
It’s a miracle rebirth...Living rebirth...Gods Spirit is Alive and Active..it’s not dead.
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