Another Reason Why "Babylon" Is A Prophetic Symbol For "Religious Confusion"

[Phoneman777]

Christians are for the most part confused about what happens after death. Ask ten different Christians about it and you'll get ten different answers. The opinions are a varied as they are numerous...and the contradictions abound:

Christians teach when a man dies, he goes straight to heaven, yet everybody fears death - the OSAS crowd being the worst offenders: they believe dead saints go straight to heaven and also believe that sin won't cost you your salvation...... so why not just forget "Thou shalt not kill" and just go on the be with Jesus? Of course, the excuse is, "God will take me when He's ready" but the truth is that they're scared to death of death. The Heaven's Gate cult believed Jesus was in that comet spaceship, and they acted on their faith, didn't they?​

​

How many Christians are willing to meet up at a graveyard at midnight? According to Scripture, that's the safest place in town at midnight! Even the worst crooks are too scared to go there. So, why won't the Christian? He knows them folks are dead...but not "surely" dead, right? The truth of God's word is exchanged for the lies of the serpent in Eden.​

​

At funerals, they come and stand before the body in the casket, then look up and point up and say "He's walking the streets of gold!".......and yet they break out in a resounding chorus of "O when the saints - go marching in; O when the saints go marching in; O Lord, I want - to be in that number; when the saints go marching in". Now, if the saints have already marched in, people ought to want to stay here as long as possible, because only a fool would want to be in that other number when they get ready to march where they're going.​

​

Without a single Scriptural mention of a "never dying soul", they sing: "A charge to keep, I have; a God to glorify; a never-dying soul to save, and carry to the sky"......and in the next breath, shout "Amen!" when Ezekiel and James testify that the soul of the sinner shall die. Does not Scripture plainly declare that Jesus "only hath immortality" and that only those who "seek for immortality" will be granted the gift of immortality at His coming? Where does it mention that the wicked are granted immortality? Nowhere...yet, when you ask Christians to explain how can there be never-ending torment if there's no never-ending sinner, confused answers are all you get.​

​

Yes, "Babylon" is indeed a fitting symbol for religious confusion of the end times in which we live, and the subject of death is only one of many, many examples of popular yet erroneous widespread beliefs of Christendom. That's why God is calling those trapped in Babylon to "come out of her, My people". Now is the time, the time is now.

​

 

[Davy]

Christians are for the most part confused about what happens after death. Ask ten different Christians about it and you'll get ten different answers. The opinions are a varied as they are numerous...and the contradictions abound:

Christians teach when a man dies, he goes straight to heaven, yet everybody fears death - the OSAS crowd being the worst offenders: they believe dead saints go straight to heaven and also believe that sin won't cost you your salvation...... so why not just forget "Thou shalt not kill" and just go on the be with Jesus? Of course, the excuse is, "God will take me when He's ready" but the truth is that they're scared to death of death. The Heaven's Gate cult believed Jesus was in that comet spaceship, and they acted on their faith, didn't they?​

​

How many Christians are willing to meet up at a graveyard at midnight? According to Scripture, that's the safest place in town at midnight! Even the worst crooks are too scared to go there. So, why won't the Christian? He knows them folks are dead...but not "surely" dead, right? The truth of God's word is exchanged for the lies of the serpent in Eden.​

​

At funerals, they come and stand before the body in the casket, then look up and point up and say "He's walking the streets of gold!".......and yet they break out in a resounding chorus of "O when the saints - go marching in; O when the saints go marching in; O Lord, I want - to be in that number; when the saints go marching in". Now, if the saints have already marched in, people ought to want to stay here as long as possible, because only a fool would want to be in that other number when they get ready to march where they're going.​

​

Without a single Scriptural mention of a "never dying soul", they sing: "A charge to keep, I have; a God to glorify; a never-dying soul to save, and carry to the sky"......and in the next breath, shout "Amen!" when Ezekiel and James testify that the soul of the sinner shall die. Does not Scripture plainly declare that Jesus "only hath immortality" and that only those who "seek for immortality" will be granted the gift of immortality at His coming? Where does it mention that the wicked are granted immortality? Nowhere...yet, when you ask Christians to explain how can there be never-ending torment if there's no never-ending sinner, confused answers are all you get.​

​

Yes, "Babylon" is indeed a fitting symbol for religious confusion of the end times in which we live, and the subject of death is only one of many, many examples of popular yet erroneous widespread beliefs of Christendom. That's why God is calling those trapped in Babylon to "come out of her, My people". Now is the time, the time is now.

​

Your argument is on SHAKY ground. It is clear that you do not adhere to NEW TESTAMENT DOCTRINE. I doubt you are even able... to understand the following...

2 Cor 5:1-8
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

Your argument is on SHAKY ground. It is clear that you do not adhere to NEW TESTAMENT DOCTRINE. I doubt you are even able... to understand the following...

2 Cor 5:1-8
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV

Please consider this:

Paul is saying there's an intermediate state between being clothed in a mortal body and being clothed in our resurrection body when Jesus comes in glory - lying "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, awaiting the resurrection.

Paul then says his desire is to put off his mortal body, skip the intermediate state of lying "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, awaiting the resurrection, and just go on to be with Jesus in his resurrection body...but Paul knew that didn't happen at death, for he himself says it happens "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" at the Second Coming - not at death. You guys seem to never explain the meaning of the third option of "naked" and "unclothed" and pretend there's only two options - alive down here or alive up there.

BTW, Christians on Sunday everywhere are "willing rather to be absent from the church pew and to be present at the Cracker Barrel" and would love to skip having to fight the traffic to get there, but we all know it doesn't happen like that...just as Paul knew he wasn't going straight to heaven at death.

 

[Davy]

Please consider this:

Paul is saying there's an intermediate state between being clothed in a mortal body and being clothed in our resurrection body when Jesus comes in glory - lying "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, awaiting the resurrection.

Paul then says his desire is to put off his mortal body, skip the intermediate state of lying "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, awaiting the resurrection, and just go on to be with Jesus in his resurrection body...but Paul knew that didn't happen at death, for he himself says it happens "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" at the Second Coming - not at death. You guys seem to never explain the meaning of the third option of "naked" and "unclothed" and pretend there's only two options - alive down here or alive up there.

BTW, Christians on Sunday everywhere are "willing rather to be absent from the church pew and to be present at the Cracker Barrel" and would love to skip having to fight the traffic to get there, but we all know it doesn't happen like that...just as Paul knew he wasn't going straight to heaven at death.

You are following FALSE DOCTRINE BY FALSE JEWS.

The false idea that Paul's "temple of God" means Christ's Church and the "man of sin" coming to sit in it is about a Pope, is a LIE PUSHED BY THE FALSE JEWS that have crept into the Church.

Paul was pointing to a LITERAL JEWISH BUILT STONE TEMPLE in Jerusalem for the END, because that is what Jesus was pointing to in Matthew 24:15 about the "abomination of desolation" sitting in the "holy place". And you well know this, but have come here to LIE against that Scripture evidence.

 

[Phoneman777]

You are following FALSE DOCTRINE BY FALSE JEWS.

Sorry, but no I'm not.

The false idea that Paul's "temple of God" means Christ's Church and the "man of sin" coming to sit in it is about a Pope, is a LIE PUSHING THE FALSE JEWS that have crept into the Church.

You mean the idea that Paul used the Greek "naos" every time he called the church the "temple" and then goes on to use that same Greek word to describe what the "man of sin" will sit in...and that God would never tell Paul to refer to a disgustingly blasphemous, heretical, single most powerful brick and mortal symbol of hatred for Jesus as the "Temple of God"?

Sounds like sound Protestant Historicist doctrine to me!

Paul was pointing to a LITERAL JEWISH BUILT STONE TEMPLE in Jerusalem for the END, because that is what Jesus was pointing to in Matthew 24:15 about the "abomination of desolation" sitting in the "holy place".

You mean the "dual prophecy" which was "local and literal" when the Romans came and set up their Sun Worship staffs all around the city and eventually the temple... and will be "spiritual and worldwide" in like manner when the papacy will set up "Sunday Law" at the end of time in opposition to God's holy Sabbath?

And you well know this, but have come here to LIE against that Scripture evidence.

Funny how what you call "lies" are all backed up with sound Scriptural argument ;)

 

[Davy]

Sorry, but no I'm not.

Sure you are. You just want to be able to keep fooling the majority of folks here.

You mean the idea that Paul used the Greek "naos" every time he called the church the "temple" and then goes on to use that same Greek word to describe what the "man of sin" will sit in...and that God would never tell Paul to refer to a disgustingly blasphemous, heretical, single most powerful brick and mortal symbol of hatred for Jesus as the "Temple of God"?

There's that false-Jew doctrine again, trying to use Greek root fallacy in order to CHANGE a simple idea in the Scriptures.

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul was POINTING TO THE SAME FALSE ONE that Jesus warned of in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:23-26, a pseudo-Christ. Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined the Greek word 'pseudochristos' used in Matthew 24:24 as 'a spurious Messiah'. And Jesus showed about the "abomination of desolation" IDOL being setup in a standing TEMPLE in Jerusalem linked to that time of "great tribulation" at the END of this world (Matt.24:15; Daniel 11:31).

So the matter that Paul was covering in 2 Thess.2 is very simple, because Jesus warned about it first! And it involves JERUSALEM for the end of this world being where that Antichrist is coming to play a false-Messiah. Thus you have been warned!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Christians are for the most part confused about what happens after death. Ask ten different Christians about it and you'll get ten different answers. The opinions are a varied as they are numerous...and the contradictions abound:

Christians teach when a man dies, he goes straight to heaven, yet everybody fears death - the OSAS crowd being the worst offenders: they believe dead saints go straight to heaven and also believe that sin won't cost you your salvation...... so why not just forget "Thou shalt not kill" and just go on the be with Jesus? Of course, the excuse is, "God will take me when He's ready" but the truth is that they're scared to death of death. The Heaven's Gate cult believed Jesus was in that comet spaceship, and they acted on their faith, didn't they?​

​

How many Christians are willing to meet up at a graveyard at midnight? According to Scripture, that's the safest place in town at midnight! Even the worst crooks are too scared to go there. So, why won't the Christian? He knows them folks are dead...but not "surely" dead, right? The truth of God's word is exchanged for the lies of the serpent in Eden.​

​

At funerals, they come and stand before the body in the casket, then look up and point up and say "He's walking the streets of gold!".......and yet they break out in a resounding chorus of "O when the saints - go marching in; O when the saints go marching in; O Lord, I want - to be in that number; when the saints go marching in". Now, if the saints have already marched in, people ought to want to stay here as long as possible, because only a fool would want to be in that other number when they get ready to march where they're going.​

​

Without a single Scriptural mention of a "never dying soul", they sing: "A charge to keep, I have; a God to glorify; a never-dying soul to save, and carry to the sky"......and in the next breath, shout "Amen!" when Ezekiel and James testify that the soul of the sinner shall die. Does not Scripture plainly declare that Jesus "only hath immortality" and that only those who "seek for immortality" will be granted the gift of immortality at His coming? Where does it mention that the wicked are granted immortality? Nowhere...yet, when you ask Christians to explain how can there be never-ending torment if there's no never-ending sinner, confused answers are all you get.​

​

Yes, "Babylon" is indeed a fitting symbol for religious confusion of the end times in which we live, and the subject of death is only one of many, many examples of popular yet erroneous widespread beliefs of Christendom. That's why God is calling those trapped in Babylon to "come out of her, My people". Now is the time, the time is now.

​

S o you believe the lie that Jesus did not die for all sins, just some sins in believers and that they can reach a point where their sin is something Jesus did not shed HIs blood for them.

As for where believers go when they physically die?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

god inspired verb tenses as well as words. this is in the present so when we are presently absent from the body , we are presently with the Lord!

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When we leave the body we are with the Lord, thaqt is soul and spirit. How do we know man has a soul?

As Paul said in Eph.2 when we were unsaved our spirits were dead, but yet we function and are cognizant- that is the soul.

 

[amigo de christo]

Even so come Lord Jesus .

 

[Phoneman777]

Sure you are. You just want to be able to keep fooling the majority of folks here.

Which one does Jesus say is considered "great" in the kingdom: the one who keeps the Sabbath and teaches others to do so, or those who do the opposite?

There's that false-Jew doctrine again, trying to use Greek root fallacy in order to CHANGE a simple idea in the Scriptures.

It's a FACT that Paul used "naos" when he spoke of the church as the "temple" - the same word when he talked about the "temple of God" in which the man of sin sits.

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul was POINTING TO THE SAME FALSE ONE that Jesus warned of in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:23-26, a pseudo-Christ.

The reason we know the "man of sin" is the papacy is because every ECF who had anything to say about it said the "Restrainer" preventing the rise of the "man of sin" was the Pagan Roman Empire. Once Rome fell, the papacy arose right on time, doing the very things prophecy said it would, including sitting "in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God".

Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined the Greek word 'pseudochristos' used in Matthew 24:24 as 'a spurious Messiah'. And Jesus showed about the "abomination of desolation" IDOL being setup in a standing TEMPLE in Jerusalem linked to that time of "great tribulation" at the END of this world.

The entire Protestant world defined the "anti-christos" as the papacy, and whaddaya know? The papacy CLAIMS to be just that! The "anti-Christos"! They've been doing it for centuries, but "protestants" like yourself are no longer protesting.

So the matter that Paul was covering in 2 Thess.2 is very simple, because Jesus warned about it first! And it involves JERUSALEM for the end of this world being where that Antichrist is coming to play a false-Messiah. Thus you have been warned!

I'm astounded at how many "protestants" like yourself don't realize they're teaching Jesuit eschatology, and no wonder, seeing that you haven't a clue about Protestant Historicism, or that it was the only game in town for over 300 years until the 16th century Jesuit ideas you've swallowed began creeping into Christianity. Listen to Spurgeon:

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is, no sane man ought to raise the question. If it be not the POPERY in the CHURCH OF ROME, there is nothing else that can be called by that name".​

 

[Davy]

Which one does Jesus say is considered "great" in the kingdom: the one who keeps the Sabbath and teaches others to do so, or those who do the opposite?

Your mistake is a common Jewish one showing a lack of familiarity with The New Testament Books. Jesus was giving the Beatitudes in relation to those who shall do those and teach them. He was not speaking of old covenant sabbath keeping like you are trying to push, like a blind Pharisee.

It's a FACT that Paul used "naos" when he spoke of the church as the "temple" - the same word when he talked about the "temple of God" in which the man of sin sits.

I've already shown in more than one previous posts on this forum that Greek 'naos' IS ALSO USED FOR THE STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM...

Matt 23:16
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple (Greek naos), it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple (Greek naos), he is a debtor!
KJV

Thus THE FALLACY IN YOUR FALSE USAGE of that Greek word 'naos' to try and change the CONTEXT and meaning of the actual Bible Scripture, is something the blind Pharisees did all the time, since they followed their Babylonian Talmud more instead of the actual written Word of God.

The reason we know the "man of sin" is the papacy is because every ECF who had anything to say about it said the "Restrainer" preventing the rise of the "man of sin" was the Pagan Roman Empire. Once Rome fell, the papacy arose right on time, doing the very things prophecy said it would, including sitting "in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God".

You don't have a clue as to who the "man of sin" of 2 Thess.2 is.

If you did... know, you wouldn't be fooled by the Jew's false doctrine pointing to Christianity and a pope.

(And no, I am not a Catholic. I am a Protestant Christian, my ancestors having come to America in the 1600's because of fleeing from Catholic persecution against Protestants in France).

The entire Protestant world defined the "anti-christos" as the papacy, and whaddaya know? The papacy CLAIMS to be just that! The "anti-Christos"! They've been doing it for centuries, but "protestants" like yourself are no longer protesting.

Once again, which you are obvious unaware, you REVEAL your connection with the doctrines of Judaism!

Those who deemed the Catholic pope as the prophesied Antichrist were the Reformers, and they did not make up all... Christians. If you learned that in seminary or by your rabbi, they fooled you. The British Church existed PRIOR to the Roman Church, and they were not connected with Rome, nor is the British Church today connected with the Catholic pope. Why haven't those deceivers you listen to taught you about that? You might begin with the Glastonbury tradition.

I'm astounded at how many "protestants" like yourself don't realize they're teaching Jesuit eschatology, and no wonder, seeing that you haven't a clue about Protestant Historicism, or that it was the only game in town for over 300 years until the 16th century Jesuit ideas you've swallowed began creeping into Christianity. Listen to Spurgeon:

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is, no sane man ought to raise the question. If it be not the POPERY in the CHURCH OF ROME, there is nothing else that can be called by that name".​

Oh.... PLEASE! The so-called Society of Jesus (Jesuits) didn't even exist until around 1540. The Protestant rebellion against the Roman Church's banning of Luther's writings was before that, around 1529.

 

[Davy]

HOW brethren in Christ, does the Book of Revelation use the word 'Babylon'?

If you listen to the false Jews' doctrines they plant in many of today's Christian seminaries, they'll have you thinking the Revelation Babylon is about the Christian Church! They are telling a LIE by that, and they couldn't be any farther away from God's Truth.

Rev 18:21
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
KJV

So the Book of Revelation reveals the "Babylon" for the end is a "great city"?? you mean jelly bean, the Revelation Babylon is NOT the Christian Church in a fallen state? NO WAY, GOD FORBID! There will be deceived Christians for the end, and there will be Christ's faithful that are SEALED with God's SEAL for the END, and cannot be deceived. That never means the Christian Church represents the "Babylon" at the end of this world, just because some fall away from the True Faithful Christian Church that stands in Jesus Christ! Don't listen to those false Jews who hate Christ and the Christian Church! They are the ones pushing the Babylon lie against the Church.

So if the Revelation Babylon is about a "great city", then WHICH CITY on earth? and where?:

JERUSALEM on earth, for the end of this world. That is what Revelation is pointing to with the name "Babylon" as a "great city"!


Do you realize that Lord Jesus Christ even TOLD us what "great city" the Revelation "Babylon" represents for the end of this world? He sure did, right here...

Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

That is a DIRECT pointer to JERUSALEM ON EARTH as that "great city" Babylon at the end of this world.

The time of that event when God's "two witnesses" appear in Jerusalem at the end and prophesy against the beast for 1260 days is still sometime in our near future. It will happen within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period of Revelation 11. Jesus returns on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe as written there in Rev.11 also.

 

[Phoneman777]

S o you believe the lie that Jesus did not die for all sins, just some sins in believers and that they can reach a point where their sin is something Jesus did not shed HIs blood for them.

Jesus never died for PRESUMPTUOUS sin, right? No man who presumptuously sins and attempts to cover it with a OSAS License to Sin will go to heaven. This is elementary Christianity.

As for where believers go when they physically die?

They cease to be until the one or the other of the two resurrections.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

god inspired verb tenses as well as words. this is in the present so when we are presently absent from the body , we are presently with the Lord!

Christians everywhere on Sunday are "willing rather to be absent from the church pew and to be present at the Cracker Barrel" - but being willing doesn't let you skip the drive in between. Likewise, Paul's willingness to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord doesn't allow him or us to skip lying "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When we leave the body we are with the Lord, thaqt is soul and spirit.

Why do you think we "leave" the body?

How do we know man has a soul?

Does Genesis 2:7 KJV say man "was given a soul" or does it say man "became" a living soul?

Genesis 2:7 KJV says the Living Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and when the Breath returns to God and the Body returns to the Earth, the Living Soul naturally ceases to exist.

As Paul said in Eph.2 when we were unsaved our spirits were dead, but yet we function and are cognizant- that is the soul.

Which verse is that?

 

[Keiw]

Christians are for the most part confused about what happens after death. Ask ten different Christians about it and you'll get ten different answers. The opinions are a varied as they are numerous...and the contradictions abound:

Christians teach when a man dies, he goes straight to heaven, yet everybody fears death - the OSAS crowd being the worst offenders: they believe dead saints go straight to heaven and also believe that sin won't cost you your salvation...... so why not just forget "Thou shalt not kill" and just go on the be with Jesus? Of course, the excuse is, "God will take me when He's ready" but the truth is that they're scared to death of death. The Heaven's Gate cult believed Jesus was in that comet spaceship, and they acted on their faith, didn't they?​

​

How many Christians are willing to meet up at a graveyard at midnight? According to Scripture, that's the safest place in town at midnight! Even the worst crooks are too scared to go there. So, why won't the Christian? He knows them folks are dead...but not "surely" dead, right? The truth of God's word is exchanged for the lies of the serpent in Eden.​

​

At funerals, they come and stand before the body in the casket, then look up and point up and say "He's walking the streets of gold!".......and yet they break out in a resounding chorus of "O when the saints - go marching in; O when the saints go marching in; O Lord, I want - to be in that number; when the saints go marching in". Now, if the saints have already marched in, people ought to want to stay here as long as possible, because only a fool would want to be in that other number when they get ready to march where they're going.​

​

Without a single Scriptural mention of a "never dying soul", they sing: "A charge to keep, I have; a God to glorify; a never-dying soul to save, and carry to the sky"......and in the next breath, shout "Amen!" when Ezekiel and James testify that the soul of the sinner shall die. Does not Scripture plainly declare that Jesus "only hath immortality" and that only those who "seek for immortality" will be granted the gift of immortality at His coming? Where does it mention that the wicked are granted immortality? Nowhere...yet, when you ask Christians to explain how can there be never-ending torment if there's no never-ending sinner, confused answers are all you get.​

​

Yes, "Babylon" is indeed a fitting symbol for religious confusion of the end times in which we live, and the subject of death is only one of many, many examples of popular yet erroneous widespread beliefs of Christendom. That's why God is calling those trapped in Babylon to "come out of her, My people". Now is the time, the time is now.

​

Babylon the great= worldwide false religions=99% of them. The harlot who rides on the back of the beast( govts)= untaxed religions. 99% of them are owned and operated by satan, like this(2Cor 11:12-15) that includes 99% that claim to be christian. There is no division in the religion Jesus heads-1Cor 1:10, unity of thought as well, that means ALL of Gods 1 truth.

 

[Davy]

Babylon the great= worldwide false religions=99% of them. The harlot who rides on the back of the beast( govts)= untaxed religions. 99% of them are owned and operated by satan, like this(2Cor 11:12-15) that includes 99% that claim to be christian. There is no division in the religion Jesus heads-1Cor 1:10, unity of thought as well, that means ALL of Gods 1 truth.

Actually per God's Word, the Revelation Babylon is a "great city", JERUSALEM for the end when the coming false-Messiah takes control over it as his future headquarters on earth.

See my post# 11 above.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus never died for PRESUMPTUOUS sin, right? No man who presumptuously sins and attempts to cover it with a OSAS License to Sin will go to heaven. This is elementary Christianity.

and that is found in Gods word where???????????????????? God forgave Davids presumptuous sins. So you do not believe Jesus died for all sins.

They cease to be until the one or the other of the two resurrections.

That is not what Scripture says!

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

This body is not all of us. Notice Paul says when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord- not non existent.

Christians everywhere on Sunday are "willing rather to be absent from the church pew and to be present at the Cracker Barrel" - but being willing doesn't let you skip the drive in between. Likewise, Paul's willingness to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord doesn't allow him or us to skip lying "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection.

We are more than a body. Pauls willingness was to be absent from the body (present) and to be present with the Lord (present) God does not err inHis grammar.

As Paul gave this benediction:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are a body, soul and spirit.

Why do you think we "leave" the body?

Cuz the Bible says we do. Case closed.

Does Genesis 2:7 KJV say man "was given a soul" or does it say man "became" a living soul?

Genesis 2:7 KJV says the Living Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and when the Breath returns to God and the Body returns to the Earth, the Living Soul naturally ceases to exist.

Well first off you have two different languages with two differing words of understanding. They did not have a seperate word for soul like Greek does.

Second in Genesis 2 there were tons of doctrine that was unknown for God hadn't revealed them yet. A mini list

Hell, death, Jesus , Jesus physical resurrection, turn the other cheek, the Mosaic Law. Many things were only revealed in the New Covenant that were mysteries in the Old.

Which verse is that?

Ephesians 2

King James Version

​

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We were already physically alive, so something became alive, it was not our soul (psuche) so it was the human spirit!

 

[Keiw]

Actually per God's Word, the Revelation Babylon is a "great city", JERUSALEM for the end when the coming false-Messiah takes control over it as his future headquarters on earth.

See my post# 11 above.

Its false religion. Why would the merchants( worldwide) stand at a distance and mourn the fall of Jerusalem? See it says because their shelves remain full-Why? No more religious holidays, huge $$$ spent on those holidays, thus the factory shelves remain full= worldwide layoffs at once=the start of the tribulation.

 

[Davy]

Its false religion. Why would the merchants( worldwide) stand at a distance and mourn the fall of Jerusalem? See it says because their shelves remain full-Why? No more religious holidays, huge $$$ spent on those holidays, thus the factory shelves remain full= worldwide layoffs at once=the start of the tribulation.

Nah, you've simply been tricked by men's doctrines trying to deceive brethren away from what God's Word actually says with pointing to JERUSALEM as the Babylon Harlot of Revelation 17...

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV


That just DUMPS any of men's false doctrines planted in the Church saying the Babylon Harlot is about religion.

And any true Christian that stays in God's Word well knows that someone trying to claim the Babylon Harlot of Revelation is the Christian Church is a deceiver and is following a doctrine of the devil planted by the devils servants.

 

[Keiw]

Nah, you've simply been tricked by men's doctrines trying to deceive brethren away from what God's Word actually says with pointing to JERUSALEM as the Babylon Harlot of Revelation 17...

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV


That just DUMPS any of men's false doctrines planted in the Church saying the Babylon Harlot is about religion.

And any true Christian that stays in God's Word well knows that someone trying to claim the Babylon Harlot of Revelation is the Christian Church is a deceiver and is following a doctrine of the devil planted by the devils servants.

Jerusalem don't reign over the kings of the earth. Religion does, untaxed religion. Her fall isn't to far off.

 

[Phoneman777]

and that is found in Gods word where???????????????????? God forgave Davids presumptuous sins. So you do not believe Jesus died for all sins.

Where does it say David sinned presumptuously? Read Psalms 19:13 KJV and you'll see he prayed to NOT commit such sin, which he called the "great transgression".

As for "where" - read Proverbs 29:13 KJV where Solomon tells you that people who cover their sin (with a ridiculous OSAS License to Sin) will not prosper or obtain mercy.

Notice Paul says when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord- not non existent.

Paul says he's willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord, which is a preferential statement and nothing more. He first says he wants relief from the burdens of the body, but "not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon..." What does that mean?

Paul's saying he wants to escape the burdens of his body, but not by RIP lying naked and unclothed without a body in the grave dead awaiting the resurrection - he's saying he wants to skip that ("not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon") and just go on to be present with the Lord clothed in his resurrection body which he admits is at the coming of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You ignore Genesis 2:7 KJV which says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of its two parts: the Body and the Spirit. So, yes, Paul wants your "Body, your Spirit, your entire Soul preserved".

We are a body, soul and spirit.

We are a SOUL which is comprised of a Body and Spirit: READ IT FOR YOURSELF IN GENESIS 2:7 KJV.

We were already physically alive, so something became alive, it was not our soul (psuche) so it was the human spirit!

We were NOT already alive. Solomon tells you that the guy that's dead RIP is better off than the guy that's still alive...then, he says "Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun."

Souls don't begin to exist until the Body is united with the Breath, and they cease to exist when the separate. You are not God. You are mortal and subject to death.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Where does it say David sinned presumptuously? Read Psalms 19:13 KJV and you'll see he prayed to NOT commit such sin, which he called the "great transgression".

As for "where" - read Proverbs 29:13 KJV where Solomon tells you that people who cover their sin (with a ridiculous OSAS License to Sin) will not prosper or obtain mercy.

First stop the lies about OSAS teaches people have a license to sin, we do not and the bible does not!
David prayed to be kept from presumptuous sin, it does not say he committed one

Paul says he's willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord, which is a preferential statement and nothing more. He first says he wants relief from the burdens of the body, but "not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon..." What does that mean?

Paul's saying he wants to escape the burdens of his body, but not by RIP lying naked and unclothed without a body in the grave dead awaiting the resurrection - he's saying he wants to skip that ("not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon") and just go on to be present with the Lord clothed in his resurrection body which he admits is at the coming of Christ.

That is not how it is written.

You ignore Genesis 2:7 KJV which says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of its two parts: the Body and the Spirit. So, yes, Paul wants your "Body, your Spirit, your entire Soul preserved".

As I told you, Hebrew does not have spearate words for soul and body.

And now you are altering the word of God to deny what Paul wrote. Paul asked a blessing on a persons soma, psuche, pneuma! three separate parts of man, Just as God is triune so is man He is a body, soul and spirit.

YOu ignore Paul to support the OT which is a different language and Moses who had a much ionferior understanidng because things were as yet unrevealed.

Remember the account of Lazaruys and the rich man is a true account and not aparable.

We were NOT already alive. Solomon tells you that the guy that's dead RIP is better off than the guy that's still alive...then, he says "Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun."

Souls don't begin to exist until the Body is united with the Breath, and they cease to exist when the separate. You are not God. You are mortal and subject to death.

So according to you, you were not alive until you were quickened ala Eph. 2?

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Paul says while we were living we were dead in trespasses and sins. Our spirit was dead .