CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[Scott Downey]

Our being born again happens before our confession of faith.
Holy Spirit Regeneration before our acknowledgement of Christ in us and confessing Him as Lord.

When regenerated we have the love of God in us which is His word abiding in us from that time forward.
We are regenerated by His word and His love and this is only for those He has foreknown as His.
Otherwise we are unwilling to come to Him and have life.
One proof is in John 3, other in John 5, as in this here


36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

And John 8

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

 

[Scott Downey]

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me,

But they refused Christ when He came to them as God was not their Father, meaning they were not born of God.

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born [a]again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
---------------------------

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

People born of the flesh have children are also born of the flesh, flesh begets flesh

the way God has children is they are born of the Spirit of God
God's Spirit makes us his children when born of the Spirit of God and those are who He saves, His family.

They can then, see Christ as their savior, otherwise they won't understand who Christ is
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born [a]again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Ritajanice]

The Lord alone knows those that are his, yet we can be persuaded by what we see, hear

Take note then...you lack spiritual understanding imo....it’s very limited.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

ESVThe natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Scott Downey]

45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Again if you are not of God having God as your Father, and you can only have God as your Father by being born of God, then you will not listen to Jesus Christ.

Not being born again, is why people do not believe in Christ, as God is not their Father

 

[Ritajanice]

Again if you are not of God having God as your Father, and you can only have God as your Father by being born of God, then you will not listen to Jesus Christ

How can they listen to God via his Holy Spirit, if they are this?

1 Corinthians 2:14​

ESVThe natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Red Baker]

No they aren’t a Christian..if a Born Again was a Christian, Gods word would say so, it doesn’t.

Therefore just your opinion.

Then pray tell me what is a Christian according to you?

Listen, my question to you is, why haven’t you answered any of my questions and scripture I posted?

Really? You ahve not directly asked me any question that I ahve not address, if so, then show me and I will.

Again is..I’m also here to inform you that a Christian is not a Born Again....

Again without you proving what you are saying it means nothing. You are beginning to sound like a parrot not a teacher of the word of God.

When you quote scripture that Gods word says..you must be a Christian to see the Kingdom of God...you won’t find it because it’s not there.
You will never convince me as a Born Again that I am a Christian, never, because it’s not Gods word....it’s “ your” word....therefore I rebuke “ your” nonsensical words that a Christian is Born Again.

If you are not of the Christian religion, then what religion do you belong to?

 

[Scott Downey]

How can they listen to God via his Holy Spirit, if they are this?

1 Corinthians 2:14​

ESVThe natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Right, they have to be a spiritual person born of God, having God as their Father in order to hear the things God and Christ say.
Otherwise, they do not hear nor do they believe as they have no spiritual ears to hear. And having the ears to hear God is only for those who are of God, meaning born again of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Then pray tell me what is a Christian according to you?

God has already told you..we must be Born Again...I cannot relate to a Christian...sorry...I am Born Again of imperishable seed.

Really? You ahve not directly asked me any question that I ahve not address, if so, then show me and I will.

Scroll back, I’m not repeating myself again?

Again without you proving what you are saying it means nothing. You are beginning to sound like a parrot not a teacher of the word of God.

I’m not interested in sounding like a parrot, I never=said I was a teacher where did I say that?

I stand on God’s word...we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God.

If you are not of the Christian religion, then what religion do you belong to?

I am a Born Again...a Born Again is not religious..they have a Living relationship with God via his Spirit....they have been called / regenerated by the Spirit...for his purpose and his plan?

The Holy Spirit Glorifies the Father through us....we are vessels that he uses, whichever way is pleasing to him.

A Born Again was bought for a price...what was the price that had to be paid?.

You sound like a returning old member who recently just left...

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Corinthians 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the [d]Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Natural man means they are not born again which means they are not of God, and do not have God as their spiritual Father.
They do not listen to Christ, but they do listen to the world and the devil and the lusts of the flesh.

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

 

[Ritajanice]

Right, they have to be a spiritual person born of God, having God as their Father in order to hear the things God and Christ say.
Otherwise, they do not hear nor do they believe as they have no spiritual ears to hear. And having the ears to hear God is only for those who are of God, meaning born again of God.

Exactly ...Amen!!

 

[Robert Pate]

No we don’t.

1 John 3:9​

1 John 3:9 KJV​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
KJV: King James Version

Red Flag.

The Bible appears to be contradicting itself when Compared to 1 John 1:8. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us".

You don't understand the Gospel because you have adopted a holiness theology. So, in your mind you think that John is screwed up.

All that are born of God are "In Christ". All that are born of God are perfect and complete "In Christ". "And you are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. This is spiritual. You had nothing to do with being complete "In Christ". When you accepted Christ as your savior God spiritually placed you in Christ. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled. In Jesus Christ all of your sins have been atoned for. "You are complete in Christ". You cannot sin because the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. "Because the law works wrath. For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 5:15.

 

[Ritajanice]

Red Flag.

The Bible appears to be contradicting itself when Compared to 1 John 1:8. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us".

You don't understand the Gospel because you have adopted a holiness theology. So, in your mind you think that John is screwed up.

All that are born of God are "In Christ". All that are born of God are perfect and complete "In Christ". "And you are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. This is spiritual. You had nothing to do with being complete "In Christ". When you accepted Christ as your savior God spiritually placed you in Christ. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled. In Jesus Christ all of your sins have been atoned for. "You are complete in Christ". You cannot sin because the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. "Because the law works wrath. For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 5:15.

This is all of your opinion of Gods Living word a big red flag...a Born Again does not continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.
No one has said we weren’t without sin...that was until we became Born Again of incorruptible seed...there is no sin in us now as I’ve already explained....we have been reconciled back to God by the death and resurrection of Christ...he paid the price for the sins of his elect, those who are Born Again .

Unfortunately you don’t understand that Gods word is Alive in Spirit.

A Born Again does not choose to be Born Again...we are regenerated when God chooses to regenerate us...man has no choice in it, and because they lack spiritual understanding, they say God forces himself on to us...God is the initiator and perfector or of our faith
looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
We were reconciled back to God through the death and resurrection of Christ, we were bought for a price...

A Born Again has a new heart and Spirit within , the Holy Spirit cannot In dwell a sinner, a Born Again of imperishable seed understands this..they have the mind of Christ, the old mindset is being renewed and it never sins....

A Born Again is not in the flesh they are in the Spirit...do you understand this scripture?
Let’s discuss this scripture?

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is all of your opinion of Gods Living word a big red flag...a Born Again does not continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.
No one has said we weren’t without sin...that was until we became Born Again of incorruptible seed...there is no sin in us now as I’ve already explained....we have been reconciled back to God by the death and resurrection of Christ...he paid the price for the sins of his elect, those who are Born Again .

Unfortunately you don’t understand that Gods word is Alive in Spirit.

We were reconciled back to God through the death and resurrection of Christ, we were bought for a price...

A Born Again has a new heart and Spirit within , the Holy Spirit cannot In dwell a sinner, a Born Again of imperishable seed understands this..they have the mind of Christ, the old mindset is being renewed and it never sins....

A Born Again is not in the flesh they are in the Spirit...do you understand this scripture?
Let’s discuss this scripture?

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nothing wrong with Romans 8.

Except that you think that it is all about you and your life of holiness. You don't really want to get into this so you throw a blanket over the whole thing, Romans 8.

Lets go back to 1 John 1:8. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.". Was John a heretic?

 

[Ritajanice]

Nothing wrong with Romans 8.

Except that you think that it is all about you and your life of holiness. You don't really want to get into this so you throw a blanket over the whole thing, Romans 8.

Lets go back to 1 John 1:8. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.". Was John a heretic?

I’ve posted scripture, which you deny Gods word, please stop changing the subject and discuss the scripture that I posted.

There is no sin in a Born Again because they have been Born Again of incorruptible seed, therefore you bear false witness on a Born Again.....you lack spiritual understanding...imo...
No one said we weren’t without sin..that was until we became Born Again of imperishable seed?

There is no sin in a Born Again, we have the Holy Spirit Alive in our hearts, he cannot indwell a sinner.
Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is all of your opinion of Gods Living word a big red flag...a Born Again does not continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.
No one has said we weren’t without sin...that was until we became Born Again of incorruptible seed...there is no sin in us now as I’ve already explained....we have been reconciled back to God by the death and resurrection of Christ...he paid the price for the sins of his elect, those who are Born Again .

Unfortunately you don’t understand that Gods word is Alive in Spirit.

A Born Again does not choose to be Born Again...we are regenerated when God chooses to regenerate us...man has no choice in it, and because they lack spiritual understanding, they say God forces himself on to us...God is the initiator and perfector or of our faith
looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
We were reconciled back to God through the death and resurrection of Christ, we were bought for a price...

A Born Again has a new heart and Spirit within , the Holy Spirit cannot In dwell a sinner, a Born Again of imperishable seed understands this..they have the mind of Christ, the old mindset is being renewed and it never sins....

A Born Again is not in the flesh they are in the Spirit...do you understand this scripture?
Let’s discuss this scripture?

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I agree with all of the scripture that you have posted.

However, I see it differently. Paul did not teach a holiness doctrine (That you don't sin any more) Are you aware that the law is spiritual. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin? Now, be honest with yourself. Instead of throwing scriptural blankets over everything please stick with the scripture at hand.

1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God does not sin: for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God".

It appears that John is contradicting himself, but is he? No, he is not. Truth. All that are in Christ are perfect and complete 'In Christ", Colossians 2:10. God cannot find any sin in the man that confesses that Jesus is Lord. But you apparently don't believe that.

 

[Ritajanice]

I agree with all of the scripture that you have posted.

However, I see it differently. Paul did not teach a holiness doctrine (That you don't sin any more) Are you aware that the law is spiritual. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin? Now, be honest with yourself. Instead of throwing scriptural blankets over everything please stick with the scripture at hand.

1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God does not sin: for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God".

It appears that John is contradicting himself, but is he? No, he is not. Truth. All that are in Christ are perfect and complete 'In Christ", Colossians 2:10. God cannot find any sin in the man that confesses that Jesus is Lord. But you apparently don't believe that.

Are you aware that Jesus died for the sins of his Born Again children?
Are you aware that we aren’t under the law we are under grace?

I have the mind of Christ, and have a new heart/ Spirit within...what has that got to do with my thoughts being pure?

I have been forgiven of all sin,past, present and future....washed in the blood of Jesus ,purified from all sin.
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Hebrews 10:22-24 ERV​

Sprinkled with the blood of Christ, our hearts have been made free from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. So come near to God with a sincere heart, full of confidence because of our faith in Christ. We must hold on to the hope we have, never hesitating to tell people about it. We can trust God to do what he promised. We should think about each other to see how we can encourage each other to show love and do good works.

Romans 8

King James Version

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[JBO]

Our being born again happens before our confession of faith.
Holy Spirit Regeneration before our acknowledgement of Christ in us and confessing Him as Lord.

When do you think we are forgiven?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There is no "initial" born again experience. It is not something that God does over a period of time. It begins and ends in an instance. It is that instant in time when one goes from being a lost sinner to becoming a saved saint.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is when people get born again... and it is initial salvation.

After that, if they do not abide IN Christ, enduring until the end of their lives abiding IN Christ... they will NOT be spending eternity with the Lord Jesus.

Eternal security, aka OSAS is a demonic fantasy not supported by the New Testament and is only believed by those that do not accept the whole counsel of God. Only the lukewarm who have been infected with Cherry Pickers Syndrome believe OSAS.
Eternal security guy with License to Sin Card!

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

All I know is, nowhere does God say we must be a Christian to see the Kingdom of God.

Being honest I can’t relate to Christian, I can only relate to be being “ Born Again “....Born Again of imperishable seed...

Ok... but throughout life you have occasion to describe your beliefs.

I was with a friend being entered into a hospital for testing and they asked him what his faith was.

They were not looking for Baptist, Lutheran or such they wanted "Christian"...Catholic... Jew or some such as that

You say, and understandably so, "I can’t relate to Christian, I can only relate to be being “ Born Again “"

But are there anyone else other than Christians that are "born again"?

You are not going to be born again without Jesus in your life.... or do you disagree with that.
You must accept Him.. do you not? You must accept what His shed blood did you do you not? Has He not generally been referred to as Christ Jesus or Jesus, the Christ?

Do you disagree with ... Christ is a title that means "the anointed one" or "the chosen one". Christ Jesus or Jesus Christ is the human name and the title of Jesus, the Messiah, who came to save us from sin and deliver us from Satan.

The term Christian comes from Christ.

You simply should think in terms of being a born again Christian, for if you just say you are born again many will not even know what you are talking about. (Truth be told a lot don't even know what a born again Christian is... Boy, could I tell stories)

You are 100% correct to say you must be born again to see the Kingdom of Heaven, but you cannot discount a simple belief in Christ Jesus like the thief had.

I think it safe to say here that no one thinks you do not need to be born again to see the Kingdom of Heaven... Jesus told that to Nicodemus ...( paraphrased) "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless a person is born again [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified], he cannot [ever] see and experience the kingdom of God."

Where am I wrong?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Robert, you sound like Jimmy Swaggart and his new found gospel that he came up with to reinvent himself after his terrible fall into sin, not once, but twice.

On SBN they constantly use the term "accept Christ"~no where in the NT will you find those words used in the sense in which you and others used that phrase, no where! Sinners do not have the power to accept Christ, unless it is freely given unto them by God's power. It is written:

Ephesians 1:6~"To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."​

Election and predestination to justify and adopt some is to praise the glory of His grace. God did not elect and predestinate to save because He felt bad for condemned rebels. God elected and predestinated because it maximizes praise for the glory of His grace. Grace is demerited favor! We all deserve the lake of fire, which is the second death! He chose us His eternal son!

If a person can ever tire of singing about the grace of God, they do not know His grace yet! If we want to fulfill our purpose in life, then we must choose the ways we can praise His grace! If a person do not like to praise His grace now, what will they do in heaven (Eph 2:7)?

Sorry to inform you, no one in heaven will be looking up any soul winner to congratulate them as Saviour! God will not share His glory with any other, especially for eternal life (I Cor 1:29-31). All the attention and affection in heaven will be for God and His grace in Jesus Christ!

God made us acceptable in His sight by choosing us in Christ Jesus in eternity past. The beloved here is Jesus Christ, the beloved Son of God (Matthew 3:17; 12:18; 17:5).

It is not whether you have accepted God, but whether God has made you acceptable!

This verse reveals the utter folly, heresy, and vanity of the modern invitational system and folks believing they have accepted Christ while being at enmity against him...how deceive can one be !!

It is the grace of God “wherein” we are chosen in Jesus Christ and made acceptable.

I think Forrest Gump theology trumps Calvin's!
Forrest Gump wondered what his destiny was when his mother was dying. His mother said, "I happen to believe you make your own destiny. You’ve got to do the best with what God gave you." And of course the other line, "Life is like a box of chocolates ... you never know what you're gonna get", is kinda true.
Now Lt. Dan thought he had a different destiny and that Forrest robbed him of it. He was supposed to die in war, like his father and grandfather did. So he cursed God for being made to live with a physical disability, no legs! He is reluctant to accept the fact that life is unfair. But our ability to make choices and to do something with our lives is fair, as the ability to choose is equally given to all.
So Forrest went on living trying to figure it out. Towards the end of the movie after Jenny dies, Forrest questioned our destiny: “I don’t know if Mama was right, or if it’s Lieutenant Dan. I don’t know if we each have a destiny, or if we’re all just floatin’ around accidental like on a breeze… but I think maybe it’s both. Maybe both is happening at the same time.”
Some of our lives seem like that feather floating around in the breeze not knowing where it will end up. We too are tossed about by destiny, with little control over where we’ve come from or where we’re going.
In the end, Lt. Dan came full circle and made his peace with God, so did Jenny. Forrest was that feather and it landed exactly where it was supposed to, snatched from it's journey and placed in the book.
I think we have many choices in life, but we are drawn to that final choice _ the most important one. God orchestrates the events and people who come into our lives and sets up that divine appointment.
That storm on the boat was Lt. Dan's divine appointment, that final battle was the precipice. And all the events that preceded, his wartime disability, his dispondent, depressed journey, drunken binges and hookers came to an end and led him to grace and peace. Jenny had to experience her miserable path until she saw the light too.
We look back at our lives and see the forks in the road that we took and imagine if we didn't do that one thing, things would have turned out totally different- yet our meeting with Christ was inevitable whichever path we chose. That one day when Forrest picked up a ping pong paddle changed his life and set him on a path that would enable him to buy a boat and you know the rest. What if he didn't pick up that paddle? He wouldn't have received that money to buy the boat and make a gozillion dollars. Lt. Dan would have never come to be his boat partner. We can only wonder about how different our lives would be if only one event was altered. God would still draw us. So we give Him all the credit for our free will choices - which aren't really that free.
"The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes ( directs) his steps." Prov. 16:9