CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

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Scott Downey

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Are you referring to the vessels of wrath here?
yes, they are also called sons of disobedience, they experience God's wrath

  1. Ephesians 2:2
    in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Ephesians 5:6
    Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Colossians 3:6
    Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
 

Scott Downey

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1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
 

Red Baker

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No...we are Born Of the Spirit, that is when we receive that new heart and Spirit within....nowhere does God say he creates a new man in us...he says we must be “ Born Again “
It is impossible arguing with folks void of understanding~to put it is a nice way of saying this.

Where do you think that new heart, spirit dwells? In our inner man created after the image of Jesus Christ. Do you need help on this as well?
 
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JBO

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Job 32:8
Verse Concepts
“But it is a spirit in man,
And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding.

Meaning?

Only God can give you that understanding...in the meantime I pray that he does ....
That is indeed true. The spirit in man is "the breath of the Almighty". It is the spirit in man that makes him understand, gives him understanding. That is what the Bible is for. That is what the Holy Spirit did. The Bible is how God gives the spirit in man that understanding. He gave that to the apostles and prophets who then put in in writing for the rest of us. You are neither an apostle nor a prophet. The Holy Spirit did not give that understanding to you. He will help you, if you let him, in your understanding of what the apostles and prophets have written. He spoke to the apostles and prophets, not to you. To you He gave the Bible.
 

Ritajanice

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It is impossible arguing with folks void of understanding~to put it is a nice way of saying this.

Where do you think that new heart, spirit dwells? In our inner man created after the image of Jesus Christ. Do you need help on this as well?
No, the Holy Spirit in dwells the heart of his child..he testifies with our spirit all day every day that we are children of God....that is the witness of the Holy Spirit in our spirit?

That’s not to hard to understand now, is it?

Spirit gives birth to spirit?
 
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JBO

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1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
 

Ritajanice

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That is indeed true. The spirit in man is "the breath of the Almighty". It is the spirit in man that makes him understand, gives him understanding. That is what the Bible is for. That is what the Holy Spirit did. The Bible is how God gives the spirit in man that understanding. He gave that to the apostles and prophets who then put in in writing for the rest of us. You are neither an apostle nor a prophet. The Holy Spirit did not give that understanding to you. He will help you, if you let him, in your understanding of what the apostles and prophets have written. He spoke to the apostles and prophets, not to you. To you He gave the Bible.
Once again an irrelevant piece of intellectual understanding...void of Gods Living word.
 

Ritajanice

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yes, they are also called sons of disobedience, they experience God's wrath

  1. Ephesians 2:2
    in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Ephesians 5:6
    Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Colossians 3:6
    Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
God has been giving me understanding of these vessels of wrath....I’m starting to understand....
 
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Ritajanice

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That is true enough. One must believe in God. For some that is easy, particularly for those who are born and raised in a God fearing Christian home. But for others, it may take time to come to a belief in God; for some it takes years.

John 3:8 isn't saying that you don't know when it happens. Just the opposite. The Spirit like the wind, can't be seen, but its effects can be sensed.

You cannot see the air itself, but you can know that it exists by the effects that it produces.

Finally since being born again is one aspect of being saved, we can know without question when that happens. God would not leave anyone in the dark about such an event. He has told us how and when that can happen. Salvation is a promise of God. He does not keep that promise hidden.
Opinions, opinions, only opinions.....
 

Scott Downey

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God has been giving me understanding of these vessels of wrath....I’m starting to understand...
Ephesians 4

The New Man​

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [f]the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Do Not Grieve the Spirit​

25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give [g]place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary [h]edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, [i]clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
 

Scott Downey

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More on vessels of wrath vs the called of Jesus Christ is Romans 1

1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who [a]was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

7 To all who are in Rome,
beloved of God, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
------------------------------------------------------

The Just Live by Faith​

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel [c]of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness​

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [i]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [j]men, leaving the natural use of the [k]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [l]sexual immorality, wickedness, [m]covetousness, [n]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [o]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [p]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Footnotes​

 

Ritajanice

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Ephesians 4

The New Man​

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [f]the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Do Not Grieve the Spirit​

25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give [g]place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary [h]edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, [i]clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
To be honest,I’ve known about these vessels of wrath for some time...unfortunately I was following mans truth rather than Gods truth...in other words I was pleasing man by agreeing with them.

Whereas I should have been agreeing with Gods Living word....

I was led to delete all of my posts regarding vessels of wrath as those were “ my words from my own emotions and understanding “ God showed me that...

So I too now stand on God’s word, regarding vessels of wrath....his word is truth..

So yes, vessels of wrath built for destruction....God can do whatever is pleasing to him....
 
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JBO

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We get our faith from God

Acts 3:16
And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Yes, of course. It is by faith that they healed the lame beggar. The NIV is not a good one for that verse.
Acts 15:8-10
8 So God, who knows the heart, [a]acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,

9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
That is Peter telling the council why the Gentiles were being accepted. They believed in God.
2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak, 14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
OK , so what are you trying to say?
 

Scott Downey

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The more we let God's word into our hearts, the better an understanding we have of who God is, what He does, and our own salvation.
 

Scott Downey

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These are the non elect, those who are still in darkness and sin and there they will remain, vessels of wrath?
We ourselves do not know if God will turn their hearts to Him at some future day, as we were all like them in our past. And God had mercy on us. He can in His own timing also have mercy on them too. But if they die unbelieving and not born again, then yes, they are locked into their fate, they will die in the sins unforgiven. God knows the name of all His elect before they were born, but we don't.
John 8

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning.
 

Ritajanice

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What is the biblical definition of a Christian?
All I know is, nowhere does God say we must be a Christian to see the Kingdom of God.

Being honest I can’t relate to Christian, I can only relate to be being “ Born Again “....Born Again of imperishable seed...