Questions for Sabbatarians
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The Saturday sabbath is not required for Christians under the New Covenant.
Neither are the dietary laws, circumcision, tithing, sacrificing animals, etc, etc
Jesus said he has taken away the old covenant so that He can establish the New Covenant.
(those the love and honor Jesus accepts what He says right?)
Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
God's Word teaches that Christians are NOT following Moses as their high priest because now we have a NEW High Priest Who is Jesus Christ?
Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Under the New Covenant, we now live under the Law of Christ
(Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)
In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.
Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!
2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. (*Notice what Paul said about his own body in 1 Corinthians 9:27)
Colossians 3:6-10
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Those that do not put on the New Man and quit walking after the flesh, the wrath of God comes upon them for their disobedience because God is NOT mocked, if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Things end very badly for those that do not obey the gospel.
Romans 11:19-25
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
A sin is a sin
God gave us the sabbath for our benefit.. We as humans need a day of rest.
But it’s ok. You ignore sin all the time.. Until you repent. You will not see it
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
My pleasure. I kinda went nuts with this thread. I actually PMed a couple of other folks to see if I might be overdoing it.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
For several months I had bookmarked my Bible in places about the Sabbath and intended to start a thread about it. The last time I read the Bible all the way through in devotional reading, I recognized keeping the Sabbath Day was chronologically the 1st of the 10C given. (While God gave us the list of the 10C in Ex 20, Ex 16:23, 25 is the command by God to rest on the Sabbath day.). To me, this is profound.My pleasure. I kinda went nuts with this thread. I actually PMed a couple of other folks to see if I might be overdoing it.
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The listing of Bible verses referring to the Sabbath can add a few Psalms.
- The only Psalm dedicated to the Sabbath Day, Psalm 92.
- The "Sabbath" Psalms, The "Sabbath" Psalms.
But I think the point is clear enough to those with eyes to see. My succinct Post #39 puts the heart of our rebellious nature into perspective via the divine gift of the Sabbath. The whole "It's not a law we have to follow" is a Non-sequitor. By not resting, by not Sabbathing, we allow ourselves to be more vulnerable to the Adversary - because we are not as close to God as we ought to be. Nuff Said.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Does accepting God's gift have to be a requirement? Eating is not required for Christians under the New Covenant but I bet you do it anyway.
Please re-read Post #39.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
While I'm aware that I'm subject to bias toward the subject of the Sabbath, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this strikes me as being one of the best posts I've seen from you, my old force to be reckoned with friend. I hope you don't mind my own added boldface emphasis on another key idea you've presented here.
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God has better rest for His people under the New Covenant verses the old covenant.
You're welcome to reject God's will if you'd like and stick with the old covenant.... lots of folks discard the Lord's instructions and go their own way these days.
I'll pass, but thanks for thinking of me!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Keeping Saturday sabbath was required under the Law of Moses... and it is NOT a requirement under the Law of Christ.
So one needs to figure out if they want to live under the Law of Moses (old covenant)... or the Law of Christ (New Covenant)
to be a New Testament Christian, or try to be an old testament Jew.
So one needs to figure out if they want to live under the Law of Moses (old covenant)... or the Law of Christ (New Covenant)
to be a New Testament Christian, or try to be an old testament Jew.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Are you not aware it was Jesus who created the Cosmos; It was Jesus who created Man; it was Jesus who appeared to Moses in the burning bush; it was Jesus who took the Hebrews out of Egypt; it was Jesus who was in the cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night; it was Jesus who opened the Red Sea; it was Jesus who gave the 10 Commandments; it was Jesus Jacob wrestled with. Yes, this is the One who visited us in the flesh.
All the yada yada re the law of Moses and the law of Christ to negate his Commandments is a convenient misunderstanding for the specific purpose of justifying rebellion.....and what better way to do it than by putting it under a 'pious' umbrella and by sustained and deliberate misunderstanding and misquoting of Paul.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Required for what? Eating is not required either but I bet you still do it.
Do you think Christ died on the cross so we could violate God’s will with impunity? Christ said he did not come to abolish the law. What does that tell you?
The rebellion is on the part of those who do not accept the terms of the New Covenant and instead try to keep portions of the Law of Moses even after Jesus took the old covenant away... in order to establish the new.
If you desire to keep the commandments of the Law of Moses, be my guest. It's your life and you can do whatever it is you'd like to do with it.
Yes, I do... under the terms of the New Covenant which was established when the Lord took the old covenant away.
The New Covenant IS God's will... You should get in to agreement with the Lord!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Circaseptan rhythms of rest and worship for living souls on Earth are a matter of natural law and the divine Author of that law has been pleased to add to the moral obligation of observing this principle with the specific timing of the seventh day of the week He established "in the beginning." It is no longer simply a matter of "which day" the Sabbath falls on, because Sunday is rarely kept holy to any substantial degree.
The general principle of Sabbath rest has nothing to do with the ancient nation of Israel except that they were appointed to revive its observation along with the rest of the divine law among the heathen. It was a striking attribute that demonstrated that the God of Heaven was setting them apart as holy to Him. They were told that if foreigners came to live amongst them they should observe the same divine law (Exodus 12:49).
The term "law of Moses" has been weaponized to mean something that God never intended. Even the foreshadows of Christ that are Passover and circumcision were commanded BY God TO Moses and Aaron in Exodus 12:50 before Sinai—not OF Moses.
There is a virtually limitless storehouse of scriptural evidence to support God's changeless spiritual and natural government for all who will but allow the scales of error to fall from their eyes.
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Sounds new age!
I'll stick the the far superior rest the Lord Jesus Christ offers under His Lordship as it's far superior to what was given under the Law of Moses that could not bring life which is the reason it was taken away and a New Covenant was brought forth... one that COULD bring life.
No really... I do eat food and do so based on New Covenant revelation instead of the old covenant that has been taken away by the Lord.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Sounds new age!
Yeah, that's probably why a search for "circaseptan" (meaning "cycle of seven" or weekly) at The National Library Of Medicine's research database returns 150+ results.
You can laugh all you want, but the habit might take hold until you find yourself laughing right in the face of Christ.
I pray that never happens.
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Very good and sound observations about the law of Moses observing the Sabbath.
The insult added to injury is they make the pay to be 'offerings' to their ministers.
Talk about 'it is Corban'. Not just to avoid honoring mother and father, but also their own Sabbath.
And I'm quite sure the ministers that make the exceptions are just as pleased by it as the rabbi of old.
And these are the ones that condemned Jesus for healing the withered hand of a man.
It's all just a childish self-righteous joke.
Where there is no law, there is no trasngression. And so where there is no penalty of law, there is no law.
Where they don't have it, they just submit to man's law. Not enough principled spine to obey God's law rather than man's.
The law of Christ does not include the sabbath, but does include adultery, idolatry, reviled cursing, etc... No man is loving God with all the heart, while transgressing His law in the flesh.
In fact he only time the sabbaths are mentioned by apostles, is to not judge nor condemn nor give penalty about it. Hence, no law of sabbath for NT.
Honoring mother and father is keeping the law of Christ, that was also law of Moses.
Jesus never transgressed any point of law of Moses. He was falsely accused of it by zealot Jews that were adding their own personal traditions to the Sabbath.
Grinding ears of corn and healing on the sabbath, did not violate the sabbath law not to work.
The reason for keeping it today as Christians is only for self-righteousness. That's how they can accuse other Christians of being commandment breakers.
It's the same spirit of error as always.
All nine commandments found written by the apostles from Jesus for His church, are still to be kept as law of Christ. The sabbath is the only one not commanded for us today.
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
The law of Christ with the NT is now kept by the body of Christ, which includes much of the law of Moses, and 9 of it's commandments.
Not valid again, Breaking bread does not violate the old sabbath law.
It's the pride that comes with carnal ordinances argued over by ridiculous self-righteous men, and God cares not one whit for.
But since their pay is Corban, then all is justified.
It's all just continued petty pretense of wanna-be OT Jews. It gives them nostalgic ties of an old law and religion.
Ahhh! I feel so Jewish....
Some churches even separate men and women during services, like the old tradition of the Jews.
Nowhere. In no place is and of the saints of old before the law of Moses even spoken of keeping a sabbath, much less by law. There isn't even a seventh day mentioned after that of God in Gen 1-2.
The biggest hypocrisy, is that such Sabbatarians, is that they also make special 'dispensations' for working on the sabbath in gvt paid work, such as military, first responders, politicians, medical services, etc...
The insult added to injury is they make the pay to be 'offerings' to their ministers.
Talk about 'it is Corban'. Not just to avoid honoring mother and father, but also their own Sabbath.
And I'm quite sure the ministers that make the exceptions are just as pleased by it as the rabbi of old.
Well, fire is a heater so heaters are fire, are they not? Reminds me of the silliness of that orthodox Jewish senator that could work on sabbaths by voting with voice operated devices, rather than voting with his 'hands'.
And these are the ones that condemned Jesus for healing the withered hand of a man.
It's all just a childish self-righteous joke.
Exactly. Good point.
Where there is no law, there is no trasngression. And so where there is no penalty of law, there is no law.
They were and are enforce where they have political rule to enforce it.
Where they don't have it, they just submit to man's law. Not enough principled spine to obey God's law rather than man's.
This is not valid.
The law of Christ does not include the sabbath, but does include adultery, idolatry, reviled cursing, etc... No man is loving God with all the heart, while transgressing His law in the flesh.
The real question is why His apostles never ever command a Sabbath, when repeating commandments of the law of Moses for the OT, as those of Christ of the NT.
In fact he only time the sabbaths are mentioned by apostles, is to not judge nor condemn nor give penalty about it. Hence, no law of sabbath for NT.
Keeping a sabbath by law is keeping the law of Moses. It's the same Judaizing as commanding outward circumcision.
Honoring mother and father is keeping the law of Christ, that was also law of Moses.
More invalid.
Jesus never transgressed any point of law of Moses. He was falsely accused of it by zealot Jews that were adding their own personal traditions to the Sabbath.
Grinding ears of corn and healing on the sabbath, did not violate the sabbath law not to work.
True. But as you say, the sabbath command was not before the law, but only circumcision.
The reason for keeping it today as Christians is only for self-righteousness. That's how they can accuse other Christians of being commandment breakers.
It's the same spirit of error as always.
Not valid again. In Christ Jesus, we are no longer Jew nor Gentile. We keep the law of Christ which continues with the law of marriage and adultery.
All nine commandments found written by the apostles from Jesus for His church, are still to be kept as law of Christ. The sabbath is the only one not commanded for us today.
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
True. The law of Moses with the OT is now done away with and decayed in death.
The law of Christ with the NT is now kept by the body of Christ, which includes much of the law of Moses, and 9 of it's commandments.
Not valid again, Breaking bread does not violate the old sabbath law.
True. The only commandment of the OT, not also commanded in the NT, is the sabbath.
This is where they behave as ever-wrangling Jews of old. Even among themselves, they argue about which day is The Day.
It's the pride that comes with carnal ordinances argued over by ridiculous self-righteous men, and God cares not one whit for.
Not the gvt supported military, first responders, politicians, etc...
But since their pay is Corban, then all is justified.
It's all just continued petty pretense of wanna-be OT Jews. It gives them nostalgic ties of an old law and religion.
Ahhh! I feel so Jewish....
Some churches even separate men and women during services, like the old tradition of the Jews.
Not you we sabbateers. But I certainly do. No problem.
If it's not doctrine of Christ written by His apostles, then it's not commanded to me in the body of Christ.
I don't defy your personal sabbath command. I just don't think about keeping it.
Other than a good exercise in making difference between the old and new testament law of God, it's just a big nothing burger for pretentious wanna-be Jews of old.
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