REST for God's People!

[Big Boy Johnson]

The seventh day of the week was blessed and sanctified by God as a time of rest. The Israelites were commanded to keep the sabbath holy. However, no command for Christians to keep the Saturday sabbath is found in the New Testament and there is a simple reason why: God has provided something far better for His people under the New Covenant which is based on better promises than the old covenant.

Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law having a shadow of good things to come are not the actual things to come. In Hebrews 4:8 we see that if Jesus had given them rest (old testament saints under the Law of Moses aka the Levitical Law), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. God's Word tells us that no one is justified before God by the law (Galatians 3:11), therefore there had to be a New Covenant or a New Testament. (see Hebrews 10:16, and Jeremiah 31:31)

So, the law of Moses under the OLD Covenant was not the end destination that the Lord desired for man. The NEW Covenant is the desired end destination God desires for man which is for His people to be born again abiding In the Body Christ with the Holy Spirit abiding in them. The New Covenant is based on better promises than the old covenant was. (Hebrews 8:6)

The sabbath was ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11. Moses served as a high priest (Exodus 28:1) and as a prophet of the Lord, and He was faithful in his calling over his house (the old covenant).

rews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Some adherents to keeping Saturday sabbath frequently ask “where did the Lord take Saturday sabbatrh way?”
The answer can be found in Hebrews 10:9 and in Hebrews 7:12.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

The Law of Christ contains NO command or requirement to keep Saturday sabbath because God has something far better for His people under the New Covenant. Saturday sabbath (and the entire Law of Moses) has been made obsolete by the New Covenant and is of no benefit to those trying to continue in any part of the Law of Moses! (Those claiming Saturday sabbath is still required cannot prove this from the New Testament of the Bible because it’s simply not there and does not teach this) .

The first mention of sabbath in God’s Word is in Exodus 16:23. This word in in Hebrew is “shabbath” (shabbat) which means intermission. This word can be found at H7676 in the Strong’s Concordance Greek and Hebrew Dictionary. The english definition is defined as an interval between periods of activity, temporary cessation, pause. In other words, STOP working!

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

We see here that Jesus is saying the reason God created the sabbath is for the benefit of man and not for the benefit of God. Whether man rests or not, God is at rest. He desires that His people join Him in resting. God’s ultimate purpose in creating mankind is to have a people created in His Own Image that CHOOSE to be with Him and are willing to turn away from all that is in opposition to the Lord of Hosts!

Under the old testament laws and regulations God’s people had to work on the outside to keep themselves in right standing with the Lord. In other words there were things they had to do physically on the outside to remain in a right relationship with the Lord. Under the New Covenant, we are supposed to be abiding IN Christ and allowing His Spirit to abide IN us to lead us and guide us and empower us to do what is right before the Lord, to please Him... which results in man keeping his body under subjection (1 Corinthians 9:27, 1 Thessalonians 4:4) to abstain from evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

Jesus tells us in John 15:5 that "I am the vine, you are the branches. For apart from Me you can do nothing" We read Jesus saying in John 15:4 that we are to “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me”

The Lord desires us to abide in Him and He in us by His Spirit (1 John 4:13) so we are baring fruit by His presence with us and not by following laws and regulations on the outside that require our own works. This is what is good and better concerning REST under the New Covenant versus the old covenant... Jesus abiding in us doing the works thru us by the power of His Holy Spirit, not man doing his own works as we see under the old covenant.

This is the REST we are called to enter in to and this is not something we are to do only on Saturday as was required under the old testament Law of Moses. Everyday our entire lives should be in submission to the Lord under the New Covenant to allow His Word to produce thru us as we cease from out own works to please the Lord and instead please Him by laying our lives down and abide IN Christ.

Colossians 2:14-16 tells us that the ceremonials laws were nailed to the cross, including the Saturday sabbath requirement. Jesus became the fulfillment of what the sabbath represented in the old testament. The sabbath day was a ceremonial law given only for the Jews in the old testament. It pictured resting in Jesus Christ for salvation. This is plainly taught in Hebrews 4:1-5.

The contrast between the old and the new covenants is summarized can be seen Hebrews 4:3-11 where we see the importance of not hardening our hearts but instead yielding and submitting our lives to the Lord and entering in to HIS Rest with Him:

Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

It’s easy to see WHY Jesus said “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able” (Luke 13:24). WHY shall they not be able to enter in? Because of unbelief due their heart being hardened related to doing their own work rather then entering in to the REST that can only be found abiding IN Christ.

In Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the Israelites were commanded to keep the sabbath as a memorial of their deliverance from Egypt by God’s mighty hand. In the Old Testament, violating the sabbath resulted in a person’s excommunication from Israel, or even death (Num 15:32-35).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Continued...


Since Jesus was raised from the dead on the first day of the week, we see in the New Testament scriptures how the Apostles were led by the Lord to hold meetings on Sunday, the first days of the week. They did not call this “sabbath” since Jesus Christ IS our sabbath. They were simply led by the Lord to worship on Sunday.

We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)

Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Under the New Testament with Jesus Christ as our High Priest we are to die to self (Galatians 2:20) and live IN Christ, thru Christ submitting our entire lives everyday of the week to the Lord because HE is our Rest.

The word sabbath only occurs two times in the New Testament epistles. For the believer today, a sabbath rest is described in Hebrews 4:9 as a moment-by-moment rest by believers in the Lord by faith. This reference contains no commandment concerning which day the church should meet for worship.

It’s not really an issue if someone wants to go to church in Saturday but it becomes an issue when some claim that not having church services on Saturday is a sin that causes people to lose their salvation. The New Testament does not teach this and this belief is in fact extra biblical as it did not come from the Lord Jesus Who is the High Priest over the New Covenant.

Those that endeavor to keep the old covenant sabbath that was ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11 are actually trying to keep this part of the old covenant. If one believes they are justified by any part of the Law of Moses, they have fallen from grace and what Jesus has done becomes of no effect for them

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Under the New Covenant’s better promises (and all around better deal both for God and for man!) Jesus calls His faithful “friends” which is a dear friend, actively fond of, an associate (G5384 in Strong’s Concordance). This is because unlike in the old covenant, we are joint heirs with Christ Jesus (Romans 8:17), raised up to sit with Him in Heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), translated from darkness into the Kingdom of God’s Dear Son (Colossians 1:13-20)

This righteousness before God is only available to those that have ceased from their own works as taught under the New Covenant seeing that the old covenant has been taken away once the New Covenant became available thru Jesus Christ. (see Hebrews 10:9 and Hebrews 7:12).

Galatians 2:21
do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 we see how the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to conclude that gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and the rules concerning circumcision of males. The Apostles were led by the Lord to retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled, and on fornication and idolatry.

There was no leading by the Holy Spirit at The Council of Jerusalem to include Saturday sabbath as being a requirement for New Testament Christians to observe. Had this been the will of God that we keep Saturday sabbath under the New Covenant, the Lord would have led the Apostles to include this as a required... but, He did not do so.

Keeping Saturday sabbath is not a requirement for born again Christians and the claim that one must keep Saturday sabbath in order to be in right standing with God is not entering in to the REST that the Lord Jesus Christ has provided to His people under the New Covenant. Righteousness does not come thru any part of the old testament the law including keeping Saturday sabbath.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Amen and amen.
Jesus is the "REST " of God unto his ppl.

We are not to let others bind us under their doctrines of men & devils but remain free under the cloak of liberty found in Jesus; love!

 

[BarneyFife]

The seventh day of the week was blessed and sanctified by God......

Since Jesus was raised from the dead on the first day of the week......

What's surely becoming clearer and clearer to any who might be following along is that, instead of answering the refutations that have been given for the neo-Christian, neo-New Covenant claims you're making, you're simply posing a cat-and-mouse game of re-packaging those claims and re-posting them in different corners of the forum.

And if that's the way you want to operate, you're free, of course, to do so, but you'll have to bear being called out for it.

.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

instead of answering the refutations that have been given

You mean the false, UN biblical objections to what God's Word actually says!
The mocking the New Covenant is disrespecting the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father's plan of salvation.

I simply post what God's Word says... you can argue with the Lord as you explain to Him you reject the New Covenant and you have decided to continue under the old covenant not knowing Jesus fulfilled it all and took it away so He could establish the new which is based on better promises that you have no use for..

Your religion's UN biblical teachings may fool some, but not the ones that actually read God's Word for themselves and see the painfully obvious discrepancies between what your religion claims versus what God says in His Word.

Besides, I did not expect any sabbatarians to care about this write up containing quotes from scripture because after all, sabbatarians have their own religion that they enjoy among themselves having no need to anyone that does not bow down to their viewpoint.

Doesn't your religion forbid associating with those that are not converting to sabbatarianism? I thought I read somewhere in your religion's writings that you guys don't normally talk much to none sabbatarians?

And your paranoia is quite comical thinking I'm posting over here in a corner hoping you won't see what I'm saying... I thought that was pretty funny! Thanks for the chuckle! .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus rebukes the sabbatarians

This is rather interesting...

12 1-2 It happened then that Jesus passed through the cornfields on the Sabbath day. His disciples were hungry and began picking the ears of wheat and eating them. But the Pharisees saw them do it. “There, you see,” they remarked to Jesus, “your disciples are doing what the Law forbids them to do on the Sabbath.”

3-4 “Haven’t any of you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?” replied Jesus, “—how he went into the house of God and ate the presentation loaves, which he and his followers were not allowed to eat since only priests can do so?

5-8 “Haven’t any of you read in the Law that every Sabbath day priests in the Temple can break the Sabbath and yet remain blameless? I tell you that there is something more important than the Temple here. If you had grasped the meaning of the scripture ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice’, you would not have been so quick to condemn the innocent! For the Son of Man is master even of the Sabbath.”

9-10 Leaving there he went into their synagogue, where there happened to be a man with a shrivelled hand. “Is it right to heal anyone on the Sabbath day?” they asked him—hoping to bring a charge against him.

11-12 “If any of you had a sheep which fell into a ditch on the Sabbath day, would he not take hold of it and pull it out?” replied Jesus. “How much more valuable is a man than a sheep? You see, it is right to do good on the Sabbath day.”

13 Then Jesus said to the man, “Stretch out your hand!” He did stretch it out, and it was restored as sound as the other.

14 But the Pharisees went out and held a meeting against Jesus and discussed how they could get rid of him altogether.

 

[Wick Stick]

Continued...


Since Jesus was raised from the dead on the first day of the week, we see in the New Testament scriptures how the Apostles were led by the Lord to hold meetings on Sunday, the first days of the week. They did not call this “sabbath” since Jesus Christ IS our sabbath. They were simply led by the Lord to worship on Sunday.

We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)

Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Under the New Testament with Jesus Christ as our High Priest we are to die to self (Galatians 2:20) and live IN Christ, thru Christ submitting our entire lives everyday of the week to the Lord because HE is our Rest.

The word sabbath only occurs two times in the New Testament epistles. For the believer today, a sabbath rest is described in Hebrews 4:9 as a moment-by-moment rest by believers in the Lord by faith. This reference contains no commandment concerning which day the church should meet for worship.

It’s not really an issue if someone wants to go to church in Saturday but it becomes an issue when some claim that not having church services on Saturday is a sin that causes people to lose their salvation. The New Testament does not teach this and this belief is in fact extra biblical as it did not come from the Lord Jesus Who is the High Priest over the New Covenant.

Those that endeavor to keep the old covenant sabbath that was ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11 are actually trying to keep this part of the old covenant. If one believes they are justified by any part of the Law of Moses, they have fallen from grace and what Jesus has done becomes of no effect for them

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Under the New Covenant’s better promises (and all around better deal both for God and for man!) Jesus calls His faithful “friends” which is a dear friend, actively fond of, an associate (G5384 in Strong’s Concordance). This is because unlike in the old covenant, we are joint heirs with Christ Jesus (Romans 8:17), raised up to sit with Him in Heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), translated from darkness into the Kingdom of God’s Dear Son (Colossians 1:13-20)

This righteousness before God is only available to those that have ceased from their own works as taught under the New Covenant seeing that the old covenant has been taken away once the New Covenant became available thru Jesus Christ. (see Hebrews 10:9 and Hebrews 7:12).

Galatians 2:21
do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 we see how the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to conclude that gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and the rules concerning circumcision of males. The Apostles were led by the Lord to retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled, and on fornication and idolatry.

There was no leading by the Holy Spirit at The Council of Jerusalem to include Saturday sabbath as being a requirement for New Testament Christians to observe. Had this been the will of God that we keep Saturday sabbath under the New Covenant, the Lord would have led the Apostles to include this as a required... but, He did not do so.

Keeping Saturday sabbath is not a requirement for born again Christians and the claim that one must keep Saturday sabbath in order to be in right standing with God is not entering in to the REST that the Lord Jesus Christ has provided to His people under the New Covenant. Righteousness does not come thru any part of the old testament the law including keeping Saturday sabbath.

You got a TLDR for this?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You got a TLDR for this?

For those not interested, of course they'll tag this with "Too Long, Didn't Read"

 

[Wick Stick]

For those not interested, of course they'll tag this with "Too Long, Didn't Read"

If I wasn't interested at all, I wouldn't say anything at all.

I'm interested in the subject, and in a conversation. But a long-form essay is a little more than I can work with during my little break from work, so I was hoping you might provide a succinct synopsis.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I was hoping you might provide a succinct synopsis

Nope, studying God's Word doesn't normally include taking short cuts so no succinct synopsis is planned

 

[Jay Ross]

God has promised the Israelites rest from the beasts of the fields, after they have repented and turned once more to God by ensuring that the Beasts of the field, i.e., the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 who are fallen heavenly hosts, are not in a position whereby they can have influence over the Israelites for 1,000 years after which they will be released for a little while period. (Ezekiel 34.)

Ezekiel 34:25-30: - 25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause wild beasts {a} to cease from the earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their earth; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. [/i]28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the earth devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 [/i]I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger on the earth, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. [/i]30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.'"


Note {a}: - This is a reference to God’s judgement of the beastly Heavenly Hosts who will be judged during the time that God is turning His attention once more towards the Israelites in our near future, around the year 2044 AD give or take a year or so either way because of the uncertainty in the understanding of the relations between God’s timeframe and man’s understanding.

Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of God Judging the Heavenly Hosts in Heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth and that they will be gathered with the kings of the earth and imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.
Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the time of the judgement of the four Beasts, referred to as the four winds of Heaven in Daniel 7:2 that causes a manifestation of the four respective beasts to rise up out of the sea of humanity with the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts.

In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth after the signs performed by the three foul frog like spirits when they went out from the mouth of the Dragon, the False Prophet and the Beast would be to assemble them for battle, on the great day of God the Almighty at Armageddon where they will be judged as Isaiah 24:21-22 prophesied.

Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-26, that when the fullness with respect to time, that has been set for the Gentiles to trample God’s Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, has drawn to its conclusion, after the 2,300-year period, and the subsequent judgement of the kings of the earth, all of Israel will be saved.

Ezekiel 34:28 repeats this same theme, where it points a second time to the beasts being removed from the face of the earth and not troubling Israel for a period of 1,000-years.[/b]

 

[Truthnightmare]

God has promised the Israelites rest from the beasts of the fields, after they have repented and turned once more to God by ensuring that the Beasts of the field, i.e., the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 who are fallen heavenly hosts, are not in a position whereby they can have influence over the Israelites for 1,000 years after which they will be released for a little while period. (Ezekiel 34.)

Ezekiel 34:25-30: - 25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause wild beasts {a} to cease from the earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their earth; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. [/i]28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the earth devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 [/i]I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger on the earth, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. [/i]30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.'"


Note {a}: - This is a reference to God’s judgement of the beastly Heavenly Hosts who will be judged during the time that God is turning His attention once more towards the Israelites in our near future, around the year 2044 AD give or take a year or so either way because of the uncertainty in the understanding of the relations between God’s timeframe and man’s understanding.

Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of God Judging the Heavenly Hosts in Heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth and that they will be gathered with the kings of the earth and imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.
Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the time of the judgement of the four Beasts, referred to as the four winds of Heaven in Daniel 7:2 that causes a manifestation of the four respective beasts to rise up out of the sea of humanity with the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts.

In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth after the signs performed by the three foul frog like spirits when they went out from the mouth of the Dragon, the False Prophet and the Beast would be to assemble them for battle, on the great day of God the Almighty at Armageddon where they will be judged as Isaiah 24:21-22 prophesied.

Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-26, that when the fullness with respect to time, that has been set for the Gentiles to trample God’s Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, has drawn to its conclusion, after the 2,300-year period, and the subsequent judgement of the kings of the earth, all of Israel will be saved.

Ezekiel 34:28 repeats this same theme, where it points a second time to the beasts being removed from the face of the earth and not troubling Israel for a period of 1,000-years.[/b]

What leads you to believe the beasts of Daniel 7 are fallen heavenly host?

 

[Jay Ross]

What leads you to believe the beasts of Daniel 7 are fallen heavenly host?

Because of Isiaih 24:21-22. In the Book of Revelation we are told that the judged kings of the earth that occurs at Armageddon rise up out of the Bottomless pit after it is unlocked and descend from the smoke rising up out of the Bottomless pit. Rev 9:1-12

Then in Rev 17:6-13 tells us of the Beast that rises up out of the abyss to eventually go to its destruction in the Lake of Fire.

In Rev 13:11-18 tells us about the Little Horn, now called the False Prophet later in the Book of Revelation. Then in Rev 19 we are told that the beast and the False Prophet are bot captured and dispatched into the Lake of Fire at the end of the Little While Period.

Now if Isaiah 24:21-22, tells us of the Judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven, and they too are imprisoned for many days in a pit to await the time of their punishment, then the only other entities that also rise up out of the Bottomless pit must be heavenly hosts and they are identified as the four facetted beast acting with one accord and the Little Horn. This is why I believe that the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are wicked fallen heavenly hosts, i.e., angels in league with Satan.

Shalom

 

[Truthnightmare]

Because of Isiaih 24:21-22. In the Book of Revelation we are told that the judged kings of the earth that occurs at Armageddon rise up out of the Bottomless pit after it is unlocked and descend from the smoke rising up out of the Bottomless pit. Rev 9:1-12

Then in Rev 17:6-13 tells us of the Beast that rises up out of the abyss to eventually go to its destruction in the Lake of Fire.

In Rev 13:11-18 tells us about the Little Horn, now called the False Prophet later in the Book of Revelation. Then in Rev 19 we are told that the beast and the False Prophet are bot captured and dispatched into the Lake of Fire at the end of the Little While Period.

Now if Isaiah 24:21-22, tells us of the Judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven, and they too are imprisoned for many days in a pit to await the time of their punishment, then the only other entities that also rise up out of the Bottomless pit must be heavenly hosts and they are identified as the four facetted beast acting with one accord and the Little Horn. This is why I believe that the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are wicked fallen heavenly hosts, i.e., angels in league with Satan.

Shalom

I disagree.. But thank you for explaining your position. I believe the beasts spoken of in Daniel
are kingdoms.

 

[Jay Ross]

I disagree.. But thank you for explaining your position. I believe the beasts spoken of in Daniel
are kingdoms.

That is fine by me. I agree that Kingdoms do inhabit the dominion of the four respective heavenly host beasts since the influence of the respective beasts cause the people groups, kingdom, nations and empires to manifest the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts. This explains how the influence of the heavenly beasts can flow and ebb over time in different people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires and these influenced people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires rise up and then collapse after a time as the influence passes from on particular influenced group of people to another. This can easily be seen in the realms of exercising power over other people which is the dominate characteristic of the third beast with four heads.

If we consider Daniel 8:8 we can see that the four horns that rise up after the single horn is broken off and these four new horns pay homage to the four winds of heaven.

8 Thus the goat became very great, but at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off, and four prominent horns came up in its place, pointing toward the four winds of heaven.

If we read on further in the chapter a little horn comes out of one of the four horns and he is given armies to trample God's sanctuary and God's earthly hosts. This little horn has exercised his influence for just on 2,300 years now using different people groups over this time period.

I was using this sort of language back in the days of Prophecy Talks and there I was opposed by a Member with the handle of "Dadda?" if my memory is correct. He would list up to 14 entities based on people who he claimed were a beast or a horn. He was actually a member on this forum. Shortly after his objection to my posts the forum was closed down by the owner. I have never heard as to why he did that.

My understanding has changed little over the past 10 to 20 years. My understanding provides an explanation a to how the respective beasts were able to manifest themselves over this same time period.

Shalom

 

[Truthnightmare]

That is fine by me. I agree that Kingdoms do inhabit the dominion of the four respective heavenly host beasts since the influence of the respective beasts cause the people groups, kingdom, nations and empires to manifest the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts. This explains how the influence of the heavenly beasts can flow and ebb over time in different people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires and these influenced people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires rise up and then collapse after a time as the influence passes from on particular influenced group of people to another. This can easily be seen in the realms of exercising power over other people which is the dominate characteristic of the third beast with four heads.

If we consider Daniel 8:8 we can see that the four horns that rise up after the single horn is broken off and these four new horns pay homage to the four winds of heaven.

8 Thus the goat became very great, but at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off, and four prominent horns came up in its place, pointing toward the four winds of heaven.

If we read on further in the chapter a little horn comes out of one of the four horns and he is given armies to trample God's sanctuary and God's earthly hosts. This little horn has exercised his influence for just on 2,300 years now using different people groups over this time period.

I was using this sort of language back in the days of Prophecy Talks and there I was opposed by a Member with the handle of "Dadda?" if my memory is correct. He would list up to 14 entities based on people who he claimed were a beast or a horn. He was actually a member on this forum. Shortly after his objection to my posts the forum was closed down by the owner. I have never heard as to why he did that.

My understanding has changed little over the past 10 to 20 years. My understanding provides an explanation a to how the respective beasts were able to manifest themselves over this same time period.

Shalom

Indeed… When looking at Daniel we see the following…

Daniel 7:3
And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

At this point we have 4 beast coming up from the sea. They come up one after another, not at the same time.

We are told that the “sea” or waters equals people…

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

And of course this has nothing to do with some religions claiming Christians are required to keep Saturday sabbath in order to be saved and accepted by the Lord.

 

[Jay Ross]

Indeed… When looking at Daniel we see the following…

Daniel 7:3
And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

At this point we have 4 beast coming up from the sea. They come up one after another, not at the same time.

We are told that the “sea” or waters equals people…

Yes, and what is being described is manifestations of the respective beasts, that rise up out of the sea. The sea of the people is very large, and it can accommodate up to seven beasts at the one time. The third beast with four heads has four manifested "beasts' that interact with each other. This is born out in Daniel 10 and 11 where the interactions of the four horn is described as battles against each other.

You can believe that the heavenly host beasts do not exist and that the beasts have a human form.

Sadly, this is what the reformation fathers introduced into their rhetoric against the Roman Catholic Church to demonise the RCC at that time.

Satan has done a good job of hiding himself and his fellow fallen angels by getting the Reformation fathers to use earthly entities the beasts of the Book of Daniel.

In the Statue Prophecy in Daniel 2, Jeremaih in Jeremaih 50 tells us that the land of Babylon will be devastated and desolated for a period of some 2 ages, nominally 2,000+ years which means that after the Greek domination of the Land of Babylon where they decimated the Land of Babylon around 120 BC, 60 years before the Roman Empire came onto the world scene, it means that the Roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the statue prophecy as many people claim. Rev 16:17-21 in the 7th Bowl judgement tells us that during the time span of this bowl judgement that Babylon will be remembered once more before God to receive God's wrath for what they had done to Israel.

It is my understanding that much of what is preached about Daniel's book is greatly wrong.

You can do what you want with this information.

Shalom

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You can do what you want with this information.

It definitely does not lead anyone to observe Saturday sabbath!

 

[Jay Ross]

It definitely does not lead anyone to observe Saturday sabbath! View attachment 39387

Ah Big Boy, your understanding is warped. Technically there is no New Covenant as Christ refreshed the commandments in the first five book of the OT. Christ Himself said that he had not come to change any bit of the OT Laws. In Matt 13:52 Christ spoke of the Salvation Covenant which was available from the time of Adam and which He was going to refresh by changing the process by which redemption would hence forth from His time, be changed.

After Christ returned to His Father, the Disciples and the Saints observed both the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week, and they meet also on the first day of the week and broke bread on those days when they met.

God provides more than one form of rest for His Saints. In the Ezekiel 34 passage, God promised that the Israelites would have rest from the Beasts of the Field as described in Daniel 7:1-12. This is a future rest that all of God's Saints will enjoy after Armageddon in our near future.

The nominally accepted practices of the Christian Saints are to take our rest Daily with the Lord each and every day by communing with the Lord and interacting with His Scriptures and meditating on what we read daily from the Scriptures.

Being a Christ requires a daily walk with the Lord, and not on any one particular day of the week, i.e., Saturday or Sunday.

It seems to me that you want to establish a prescriptive formula as to which one day we should take our rest in the Lord.

For me and my household, every day is a day in which we have our rest in the Lord. Our rest in the Lord is not prescriptive but is instead a way of life for my household.

Shalom.