Your Soul IS Immortal, Until...

[1stCenturyLady]

He indicated that those 3 parts are integrated into one person.

Correct.

You have one person who lives in a carnal body, with a sin nature that tends towards rebellion against God's word.

That is a person under the Law, the Ten Commandments, as shown in Romans 7:14-25.

And you also have in the born again person the residence of the Holy Spirit, who has generated a new nature that is drawn to the word of God.

Correct. It is not both under the law or in the Spirit unless we quench the Spirit completely to apostasy.

Yes, people do teach Sinless Perfection.

Can you name one for me?

 

[Randy Kluth]

That is a person under the Law, the Ten Commandments, as shown in Romans 7:14-25.

No, we still have the Sin Nature today. To say otherwise is to claim Sinless Perfection.

Correct. It is not both under the law or in the Spirit unless we quench the Spirit completely to apostasy.

Paul himself said he had not yet achieved perfection. No Christian has yet achieved perfection. And nobody today is "under the Law."

Can you name one for me?

I've had a number of discussions with them on this very forum. Of course they don't like spelling it out using the terms I use. You seem to be advocating for the same, by your definition of those "not under the Law."

I said, "You have one person who lives in a carnal body, with a sin nature that tends towards rebellion against God's word." I used that the describe the born again person who still has a Sin Nature, who still has within them the tendency towards carnality and sin, though we may overcome that tendency and that sin by obeying God's word, and by relying on the new nature that Christ has given us.

You suggest that is only the case for those who are under the Law. Nobody is under the Law today!

Got Questions

 

[Pierac]

Is that commonly taught to all JW's, that Satan and all the demons will be saved? That's a new one for me. I've never heard a JW say that before.


@Aunty Jane do you agree?

I know nothing of what JW's believe nor care.... And it seems you agree.... Are we one?

 

[Pierac]

Born Again does not mean "Resurrected." It is a metaphorical term indicating we are being given a new start, via a new spirituality provided for, legally, by the work of Christ. It was, however, already there even before the cross in a state of expectation. The story of Nicodemus took place before Christ's resurrection!

Thank you.... for making my Point...... Your an Idiot... Given that you just joined this forum.....

Really... You actually posted ... "Resurrected." It is a metaphorical term indicating we are being given a new start....

And ignore... Everything... You do know..... Your not seeing everything...

That is exactly my post...

Ok.... Let's See

 

[Behold]

Some like to talk about the attributes of our soul thinking they understand it, when they really do not.

Man is a "'tri-part" being.

Body
Soul
Spirit

The "soul" is the mind realm.. its this...>"mind, will, emotions".

The Spirit is not that..
As God put His Spirit in Adam, before Adam ever used his mind, will, or emotions, which is the Soul.

All of this was inside the Body of Adam

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thank you.... for making my Point...... Your an Idiot... Given that you just joined this forum.....

Really... You actually posted ... "Resurrected." It is a metaphorical term indicating we are being given a new start....

And ignore... Everything... You do know..... Your not seeing everything...

That is exactly my post...

Ok.... Let's See

So what exactly are you thinking is "idiotic?" Clearly, you're not "walking in the Spirit," so what should I expect?

 

[Pierac]

So what exactly are you thinking is "idiotic?" Clearly, you're not "walking in the Spirit," so what should I expect?

The Fact that you state... the Soul is immortal....

Then fail to see THAT only God is immortal.... IS CLUE ENOUGH

That's why I'm here Randy.... To give you a biblical Spanking... To make you look as Stupid as you actually are.....

So... RANDY..... TELL US ALL ABOUT WALKING IN THE SPIRIT...... THEN.... GET READY TO BEND-OVER....

Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings (IE. JESUS) or birds or four-footed animals OR reptiles.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Fact that you state... the Soul is immortal....

Where did I state that? I've avoided any reference to "immortality" outside of reference to the "immortal body." With respect to the Soul, I've stated not that it is "immortal," but that it is *eternal.*

So you begin with a false premise, it seems?

Then fail to see THAT only God is immortal.... IS CLUE ENOUGH

That's why I'm here Randy.... To give you a biblical Spanking... To make you look as Stupid as you actually are.....

So... RANDY..... TELL US ALL ABOUT WALKING IN THE SPIRIT...... THEN.... GET READY TO BEND-OVER....

Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings (IE. JESUS) or birds or four-footed animals OR reptiles.

You can't correct using the Bible unless you do so in the Spirit. Otherwise, you're using the Bible as a weapon to murder. And that won't get you into the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What do you believe about human nature? What do you believe that consists of according to 1 Thess. 5:23?

“May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. And may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers, sound in every respect, be preserved blameless at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Paul is not talking about individuals here, but of the entire body of believers...the congregation he was addressing in Thessalonica. In this context, the three terms can have a different meaning....”spirit”, that is, the dominant attitude of the congregation, as a whole......”soul”, that is, the life, or existence, of the congregation.......and ”body”, that is, the composite group of anointed Christians who make up that congregation.

Confirmation for this is found in Paul’s other writings in 1 Cor 12:12-13...

“For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ. 13 For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.”

Paul’s intense concern for the congregation is evident in his asking that God sanctify them “completely” and that He preserve them “sound in every respect.”

There is no evidence for any tri-existence In man....we are mortals designed to live in a material world, dependant on material support for our lives here. For the human race, death can be a penalty only because of our mortality.....there is no immortal part of us that goes on living because that means that we do not really die. God said we do...and that we return to the dust, not that only the body dies. There is no immortal part of man to live on anywhere else.

That is the problem with imagining something that the Bible does not teach, and confusing terms that do not apply in the big picture. In the Bible, death is the very opposite of life.....it is not a continuation of it somewhere else.....that does not fit the Bible’s overall narrative at all.

Spirit beings were created to live in a spirit realm....humans were created to live in a material realm, so what happened in order for God to decide to take some humans to heaven, to reign with his son as “kings and priests”? (Rev 20:6)
What does the Bible say about that?
In Hebrews 4:15 Paul tells us...
“For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin”.

Though not subjected to sin in his own flesh, Jesus was surrounded by those who were.
All who make up “the body of Christ”, those who will rule mankind with him for the 1,000 years, have all lived in sinful human flesh, and can also be compassionate “priests” and rulers for those still subject to sin. They have lived this life, and if God had chosen angels to rule us, all they could be over these ages, is observers of the human race, rather than being personally subjected to its trials and tribulations. Only a sinner truly knows what sin is, and what genuine godly sorrow in repentance feels like.

This is why only a relative “few” among humanity are “chosen” for this role. (Rev 14:1-3)
And since God is the one who does the choosing, there is no envy or feelings of jealousy involved with his choices....since it means that we will have the best “government” that mankind has ever had, ruling over us......life will be wonderful in both realms because the “coming” of the Kingdom will mean that God’s will can finally “be done on earth as it is in heaven”...isn’t this what Jesus taught us to pray for?

How many people actually know what the Lord’s Prayer is all about?

 

[Pierac]

Where did I state that? I've avoided any reference to "immortality" outside of reference to the "immortal body." With respect to the Soul, I've stated not that it is "immortal," but that it is *eternal.*

So you begin with a false premise, it seems?

You can't correct using the Bible unless you do so in the Spirit. Otherwise, you're using the Bible as a weapon to murder. And that won't get you into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now... we see your motive....

You want to get into the Kingdom... YET!!! .... How strange that you don't know how's ... it's done!!! even after you quote soo much of it... Perhaps.... Your not chosen????

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Randy Kluth... does Act 13:48 speak of YOU??? You don't know do you...?

Welcome to the club... Randy....

I'm here to help you... AS.. you never saw this before.... Yet.... now you will never forget .... Have you been appointed to eternal life???

You see Randy... 1 hour ago you would have never asked yourself this question.... YET... Now....Your life seems to depend on it...

Silly Child....Your only beginning to see... yet are trying to get me banned... as of now... For the truth I posted...

Paul

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm here to help you...

You can help me, Paul, by learning the Gospel for yourself, before trying to help others with it. Sadly, you are wrong on all counts, and answer no questions. For example, I'm not new to this forum, as you claimed. 2nd, I explained that I did not believe in an "immortal soul" in those words, as you claimed I believed.

Again, you have no intelligible response, but just wish to dish out names and insults, arrogantly claiming God has appointed you to "help" me. Boring, immature, and unspiritual. Perhaps you're on the wrong forum?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Randy Kluth... does Act 13:48 speak of YOU??? You don't know do you...?

Welcome to the club... Randy....

I'm here to help you... AS.. you never saw this before.... Yet.... now you will never forget .... Have you been appointed to eternal life???

It’s not what you say so much, but the manner in which you address people that is disturbing.
Internet yelling is inappropriate, bolding a portion of scripture to highlight a point is one thing, but bolded capitals in large type is just rude......as is addressing people personally in derogatory terms.
Jesus never demeaned the people he preached to. His disdain for the Pharisees was justified, and as he was God’s representative on earth, he had authority to dress them down because of the nature of their position and their complete negligence in their role. He never called people “idiots”.

As for Acts 13:48, it is plain that God chooses us as much as we think we choose him.
This applied to the Jews as well as to people of the nations. Some accepted Jesus as Messiah, whilst others rejected him.

The principle in John 6:44, 65 applied to all....Jesus said....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him . . . .This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

So those “appointed to eternal life” are those whose hearts were receptive to the “good news”.....it’s the very reason why Christians were sent out to preach, firstly to the Jews, and then after Pentecost, to the Gentiles. People’s response to their preaching determined whether God would “draw” them or not.

The Bible was not to be used as a battering ram, but as Jesus used it to teach and instruct with mildness.....

It appears that you perhaps need to give yourself a spanking before you are qualified to spank others....

Can we ask you what body of believers you belong to so that you feel qualified to address people as you do?

 

[Pierac]

It’s not what you say so much, but the manner in which you address people that is disturbing.
Internet yelling is inappropriate, bolding a portion of scripture to highlight a point is one thing, but bonded capitals in large type is just rude......as is addressing people personally in derogatory terms.
Jesus never demeaned the people he preached to. His disdain for the Pharisees was justified, and as he was God’s representative on earth, he had authority to dress them down because of the nature of their position and their complete negligence in their role. He never called people “idiots”.

As for Acts 13:48, it is plain that God chooses us as much as we think we choose him.
This applied to the Jews as well as to people of the nations. Some accepted Jesus as Messiah, whilst others rejected him.

The principle in John 6:44, 65 applied to all....Jesus said....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him . . . .This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

So those “appointed to eternal life” are those whose hearts were receptive to the “good news”.....it’s the very reason why Christians were sent out to preach, firstly to the Jews, and then after Pentecost, to the Gentiles. People’s response to their preaching determined whether God would “draw” them or not.

The Bible was not to be used as a battering ram, but as Jesus used it to teach and instruct with mildness.....

It appears that you perhaps need to give yourself a spanking before you are qualified to spank others....

Can we ask you what body of believers you belong to so that you feel qualified to address people as you do?

Aunty Jane...

It is not my manner that is disturbing... It's the scripture that I post.... that is disturbing to you... You post as if I actually wrote this StuffT!!!

Yet... I have to deal with this Crap just like you... Now get your Act/Crap together!!!


NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29 since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

Aunty Jane... What is being said here... in scripture.... Your not being honest....

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.
Net Bible
Joh 6:44 - 66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).
sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).

You keep postimg as if you Have a choice... You do not....

 

[Taken]

Your Soul IS Immortal, Until...

* “your” soul, is identified by the name given your body.

* “all” souls, belong to God.

* “life” in all souls, belongs to God.

* “all” living souls, depart (leave) a physically dead body.

* From the beginning of manKIND, to this day, until Judgement Day, “all” souls “in” an alive body, AND “all” souls “departed out” of a dead body…….
ARE Continuously Living souls.

* Living souls “IN” a living body, that which THAT living body “IS” Against God, “IS” a Living soul….accounted AS “spiritually” DEAD.

* Living souls “DEPARTED” out of a dead body, that which THAT body physically Died “Against God”, “IS” a Living soul…accounted AS “spiritually” DEAD.

IOW…..ANY part of manKIND…”body, soul, and spirit” that which IS “Physically ALIVE or DEAD….and “Against God”…
IS accounted Spiritually Dead.

The “accounting” IS according to Gods, books of evidence, recorded, maintained, kept In Heaven, and opened on Judgement Day, and such evidence IS “the evidence” by which the “whole” (body, soul, spirit of man) SHALL BE Judged and thus Sentenced.

ALL Living souls, “departed out of dead body’s”, ARE “separated”…
*. Such departed Living souls, “WITH” God, are carried (by holy angels) to Heaven to BE WITH God, to Wait for Judgement Day.
* Such departed Livings souls, “WITHOUT” / “AGAINST” God, are sent to Hell to BE WITHOUT God, to Wait for Judgement Day.

Judgement Day, according to Gods Books of Evidence…WILL REVEAL…
WHICH souls SHALL Eternally Remain ALIVE;
And
WHICH souls SHALL God Depart His LIFE FROM that soul and Destroy that soul, and remember it no more.

(similar yet different circumstances applies to a mans “spirit”, but this Thread is About “souls”.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

Aunty Jane...

It is not my manner that is disturbing... It's the scripture that I post.... that is disturbing to you... You post as if I actually wrote this StuffT!!!

It is not yours to ram down people’s throats.....it is not a battering ram, so yes please, “get your own crap together” befor telling others to get theirs together...no capitals or large bolded print required..

Yet... I have to deal with this Crap just like you... Now get your Act/Crap together!!!

You can do it with mildness and respect as Peter said. Show some respect. (1 Pet 3:15)

NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29 since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

You seem oblivious to the meaning of this “appointment” by God for the members of his son’s “body” to be complete. It is the body itself that is predetermined, not the individuals who make it up. These are flawed humans who can fall away and be replaced like Judas was. Sin makes us vulnerable to the devil’s traps. (2 Peter 2:20-22) After all he had two sinless beings that he was able to manipulate with his lies.

Aunty Jane... What is being said here... in scripture.... Your not being honest....

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.
Net Bible
Joh 6:44 - 66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).
sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).

Can a person be “dragged” kicking and screaming into everlasting life? Or is there another more subtle way to explain this “dragging”?

If you were to come across a car accident and it seemed imminent that the driver was in mortal danger of the car catching fire, could it be that “dragging” the person away from the vehicle to save their life might be the right thing to do?
Or if you tackled someone to the ground, breaking their arm in the process and they complained about the injury....but you did it because they were in the path of a runaway vehicle? Is the complaint valid? You hurt them but you saved their life.

If it involves actions, then God will read the heart of the individual and even though pain might result, becoming a Christian was never going to be easy.....it is often a painful experience, but yelling at people who are ‘unconscious’ is a waste of time.

“Attracting” people is more in line with what this scripture is stating. There is something about the truth that strikes a cord.....but only in an open heart. Sometimes it is there even when we fight it. But God is patient with us and will keep working on a good heart. He will never force us though. If he has to force us to want to obey him, we don’t have what he is looking for.

You keep postimg as if you Have a choice... You do not....

We all have choices...that is called free will. If we do not have free will, then the whole garden of Eden scenario makes no sense. God set before the humans a choice to obey or to disobey....a serious penalty applied, but because a rebel spirit (who had already plotted his course) lied to the humans about God, he was able to steal the worship of the humans for his own agenda. They had the choice not to believe his lies and to trust their Creator rather than a snake.....but they chose badly, with no sin nature to blame for any of it.....now that was stupid.

 

[Peterlag]

Some like to talk about the attributes of our soul thinking they understand it, when they really do not.

Our soul is immortal until... or IF... God destroys it. That's different than claiming the soul is not immortal, isn't it?

In case you didn't know, per Lord Jesus' promise of John 11:26, that means the soul of those who believe on Him is 'deemed' immortal already. And if you don't believe that, then why did you believe on Christ's Blood shed upon His cross so that you might have eternal life through Him?

John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?
KJV


Once again, many claim things about the 'soul' which God created as part of our makeup, but rarely do they consult all the facts of Bible Scripture about it. They certainly will never understand about the 'soul' from using the things of this material world to discern it. Yet that is often what they attempt.

Our 'soul' part is attached with our 'spirit' part, and is of heavenly substance, because it originates from that other dimension called the heavenly. Our soul/spirit can be separated from our flesh body, as written. And because the terms 'soul' and 'spirit' are often used interchangeably, it simply is meant because they both are always together and refer to the person.

The first red flag that I have that there's no such thing as an "immortal soul" is that the Catholics teach it. And therefore, I believe there is no such thing if the Catholics believe there is. I base this on the Catholics track record of never being right about anything.

 

[Pierac]

Your Soul IS Immortal, Until...

* “your” soul, is identified by the name given your body.

* “all” souls, belong to God.

* “life” in all souls, belongs to God.

* “all” living souls, depart (leave) a physically dead body.

* From the beginning of manKIND, to this day, until Judgement Day, “all” souls “in” an alive body, AND “all” souls “departed out” of a dead body…….
ARE Continuously Living souls.

* Living souls “IN” a living body, that which THAT living body “IS” Against God, “IS” a Living soul….accounted AS “spiritually” DEAD.

* Living souls “DEPARTED” out of a dead body, that which THAT body physically Died “Against God”, “IS” a Living soul…accounted AS “spiritually” DEAD.

IOW…..ANY part of manKIND…”body, soul, and spirit” that which IS “Physically ALIVE or DEAD….and “Against God”…
IS accounted Spiritually Dead.

The “accounting” IS according to Gods, books of evidence, recorded, maintained, kept In Heaven, and opened on Judgement Day, and such evidence IS “the evidence” by which the “whole” (body, soul, spirit of man) SHALL BE Judged and thus Sentenced.

ALL Living souls, “departed out of dead body’s”, ARE “separated”…
*. Such departed Living souls, “WITH” God, are carried (by holy angels) to Heaven to BE WITH God, to Wait for Judgement Day.
* Such departed Livings souls, “WITHOUT” / “AGAINST” God, are sent to Hell to BE WITHOUT God, to Wait for Judgement Day.

Judgement Day, according to Gods Books of Evidence…WILL REVEAL…
WHICH souls SHALL Eternally Remain ALIVE;
And
WHICH souls SHALL God Depart His LIFE FROM that soul and Destroy that soul, and remember it no more.

(similar yet different circumstances applies to a mans “spirit”, but this Thread is About “souls”.)

Glory to God,
Taken

It is not yours to ram down people’s throats.....it is not a battering ram, so yes please, “get your own crap together” befor telling other to get theirs together...no capitals or large bonded print required..

You can do it with mildness and respect as Peter said. Show some respect. (1 Pet 3:15)

You seem oblivious to the meaning of this “appointment” by God for the members of his son’s “body” to be complete. It is the body itself that is predetermined, not the individuals who make it up. These are flawed humans can fall away and be replaced like Judas was. Sin make us vulnerable to the devil’s traps. (2 Peter 2:20-22) After all he had two sinless beings that he was able to manipulate with his lies.

Can a person be “dragged” kicking and screaming into everlasting life? Or is there another more subtle way to explain this “dragging”?

If you were to come across a car accident and it seemed imminent that the driver was in mortal danger of the care catching fire, could it be that “dragging” the person away from the vehicle to save their life might be the right thing to do?
Or if you tackled someone to the ground, breaking their arm in the process and they complained about the injury....but you did it because they were in the path of a runaway vehicle? Is the complaint valid? You hurt them but you saved their life.

If it involves actions, then God will read the heart of the individual and even though pain might result, becoming a Christian was never going to be easy.....it is often a painful experience, but yelling at people who are ‘unconscious’ is a waste of time.

“Attracting” people is more in line with what this scripture is stating. There is something about the truth that strikes a cord.....but only in an open heart. Sometimes it is there even when we fight it. But God is patient with us and will keep working on a good heart. He will never force us though. If he has to force us to want to obey him, we don’t have what he is looking for.

We all have choices...that is called free will. If we do not have free will, then the whole garden of Eden scenario makes no sense. God set before the humans a choice to obey or to disobey....a serious penalty applied, but because a rebel spirit (who had already plotted his course) lied to the humans about God, he was able to steal the worship of the humans for his own agenda. They had the choice not to believe his lies and to trust their Creator rather than a snake.....but they chose badly, with no sin nature to blame for any of it.....now that was stupid.

No Shit Auny Jane....

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

Do I have to freaking spell it out for you.... NO!! You don't have a choice... that's what makes this so fair... it's a Gift!!! MY GOD!

NOW... I'm going to be banned BECAUSE OF YOUR SILLY POST!!!
PAUL

 

[Pierac]

It is not yours to ram down people’s throats.....it is not a battering ram, so yes please, “get your own crap together” befor telling others to get theirs together...no capitals or large bonded print required..

You can do it with mildness and respect as Peter said. Show some respect. (1 Pet 3:15)

You seem oblivious to the meaning of this “appointment” by God for the members of his son’s “body” to be complete. It is the body itself that is predetermined, not the individuals who make it up. These are flawed humans who can fall away and be replaced like Judas was. Sin makes us vulnerable to the devil’s traps. (2 Peter 2:20-22) After all he had two sinless beings that he was able to manipulate with his lies.

Can a person be “dragged” kicking and screaming into everlasting life? Or is there another more subtle way to explain this “dragging”?

If you were to come across a car accident and it seemed imminent that the driver was in mortal danger of the care catching fire, could it be that “dragging” the person away from the vehicle to save their life might be the right thing to do?
Or if you tackled someone to the ground, breaking their arm in the process and they complained about the injury....but you did it because they were in the path of a runaway vehicle? Is the complaint valid? You hurt them but you saved their life.

If it involves actions, then God will read the heart of the individual and even though pain might result, becoming a Christian was never going to be easy.....it is often a painful experience, but yelling at people who are ‘unconscious’ is a waste of time.

“Attracting” people is more in line with what this scripture is stating. There is something about the truth that strikes a cord.....but only in an open heart. Sometimes it is there even when we fight it. But God is patient with us and will keep working on a good heart. He will never force us though. If he has to force us to want to obey him, we don’t have what he is looking for.

We all have choices...that is called free will. If we do not have free will, then the whole garden of Eden scenario makes no sense. God set before the humans a choice to obey or to disobey....a serious penalty applied, but because a rebel spirit (who had already plotted his course) lied to the humans about God, he was able to steal the worship of the humans for his own agenda. They had the choice not to believe his lies and to trust their Creator rather than a snake.....but they chose badly, with no sin nature to blame for any of it.....now that was stupid.

No... there is no other way... We are/all Idiots “dragged” kicking and screaming into everlasting life....

The fact you don't see this speaks voulmes ....

PAUL

 

[Aunty Jane]

No Shit Auny Jane....

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

Do I have to freaking spell it out for you.... NO!! You don't have a choice... that's what makes this so fair... it's a Gift!!! MY GOD!

NOW... I'm going to be banned BECAUSE OF YOUR SILLY POST!!!
PAUL

Seriously??? this is the words of a Christian...man! Where is your self control?
You are “going to be banned” because of your own silly choices of words....put the blame where it lies.
You have a choice to do what you do....and to say what you say.....don’t blame everyone else but the actual culprit.

If you cannot be civil...go and harass people somewhere else.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, we still have the Sin Nature today. To say otherwise is to claim Sinless Perfection.

Sinlessness and Perfection are two different things and about two different types of sin and at different times in a Christian life. So sinless perfection is not an issue for most of our life until we finally become spiritually mature in all the fruit of the Spirit and are perfect/holy and are still abiding in Jesus and still sinless/clean. That actually is what we must aim for as Paul did, otherwise as Peter said about those who do not bear fruit (5-7), "9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins." That means the sin nature has been cleansed from its propensity to sin. The reason why it is still clean is because Jesus defeated the devil at the crucifixion and resurrection. 1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Randy, this chapter of 1 John 3 is about sins unto death against the Ten Commandments, like murder, stealing, lying, adultery, etc.

Now look here Randy. This is so gracious of the Father. Even though this may be a new Christian and has immature fruit, Jesus still pronounces them CLEAN (3)! We don't need laws engraved on stone like the Old Covenant because the laws are written in our mind and conscience that is now our new nature of the born again of the Spirit. See -

John 15:1-4 "“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Randy, can you please tell me why most people in the Church of Jesus Christ are against what Jesus came to do? 1 John 3:4-5 "4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin." How long have you been taught and believed the very opposite of what Jesus came to do? Because it is the opposite that means it is a doctrine of demons. Do what I did and pray that God wipe your mind of all false doctrines and reteach you the true gospel. When I did that about 10 years ago He answered that prayer immediately, and I can see the true gospel of the power of God.

I'll finish reading your post. This sentence pulled me to answer immediately.