Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology

[ewq1938]

I agree. In the New Testament the Greek word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction (which is consistent throughout the New Testament) between the body (soma) and the soul.
​

These things are all part of each other in complex ways. It isn't that the word of God's purpose is separating these, such as separating the bone marrow from our joints, but the intent is to show just how powerful and "sharp" the Word of God actually is. It's not meant to be literal but to simply convey it's unique power in ways that people in biblical times could grasp and understand. The Word of God doesn't literally separate the soul and Spirit from each other, nor our bone marrow from our joints, nor our thoughts from our intents.


I do not believe it is saying the soul and spirit are two different things but more like two aspects of one thing. I believe this is similar to a figure of speech to demonstrate how awesome and "sharp" the Word of God is, that it can even separate the soul and spirit. Not that it literally does, but this is an attempt to show just how powerful it is, that it can even split these things which really are one in the same. The Soul and Spirit are who we are and our "essence".

I think they are two aspects of one intangible thing that constitutes who we are. I do not believe scripture specifically defines each in the sense that the soul is "this" and the spirit is "that". In the Greek, Hebrew and English they are defined the same way.



Here are some translations that I think convey the point better than the KJV:


(CEV) What God has said isn't only alive and active! It is sharper than any double-edged sword. His word can cut through our spirits and souls and through our joints and marrow, until it discovers the desires and thoughts of our hearts.


(GNB) The word of God is alive and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. It cuts all the way through, to where soul and spirit meet, to where joints and marrow come together. It judges the desires and thoughts of the heart.


(GW) God's word is living and active. It is sharper than any two-edged sword and cuts as deep as the place where soul and spirit meet, the place where joints and marrow meet. God's word judges a person's thoughts and intentions.


I believe Paul is saying there is a soul and spirit which are basically one thing, and impossible to separate but the Word is so powerful that only it *could* even separate them...not that it does for what purpose could that have, but if it wanted it could do this because it can penetrate anything. We know the Word is Christ, and yes he knows us, our real inside souls and spirits, our very thoughts and intentions.


Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


Here appropiately Paul does make a clearer reference to "Him" to connect the Word to Christ, and reiterates his message, that "all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him"...that nothing can be hidden from Him.


Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


Then Paul gracefully moves into the subject of Christ having been essentially as we are, in the flesh and tempted of all things, and touched with the same infirmities (like fear of death) yet he sinned not, unlike us.


Paul says Christ knows our very hearts, our sins and weakneses, and He can understand because he experienced a flesh life yet did not sin...so trust Him...I believe this is the crux of the message here.


Soul and spirit are really basically the same thing just like one's mind is like one's intellect. The only difference I really notice is the extending kind of influence the spirit is often said to have on others. This is especially clear with the spirit of God which is everywhere. Humans naturally have no ability near that but it is often said a person's "spirit" is able to affect others. It is also not recorded in the bible of God sending forth his soul. Apparently the soul remains within while the spirit has the ability to reach outwards.



******

http://www.dtl.org/misc/treatise/soul-spirit-1.htm

Definitions of Soul and Spirit



English Dictionary:
The next step in this study will be to look at the definitions of the words soul and spirit. First to be looked at will be the definitions found in an English dictionary. Following are the possible definitions which are relevant to this study from The American Heritage Dictionary:


soul (sol) noun
1. The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of human beings, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human being; a shade....
5. A human being: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
6. The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network . . . may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (M. Kalb).

spir·it (spîr¹ît) noun
1. a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness....
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
6. a. The part of a human being associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.
7. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.(11)



A comparison of these definitions will show many similarities. The most important to this discussion is the first definition for the soul where it is said to be "credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion" and the sixth definition for the spirit where the it is said to be, "associated with the mind, will, and feelings."



And note that the definition for soul uses the word spirit (#3); and the definition for spirit uses the word soul (#2).

In addition, a quick check of Roget's Thesaurus shows one of the synonyms given for soul is spirit; and one of the synonyms given for spirit is soul.(12) So in popular usage, the words soul and spirit are interchangeable.



Hebrew and Greek Lexicons:
The next area to study is how Hebrew and Greek lexicons define the meanings of the original words that soul and spirit translate. Below are the relevant portions for these words taken from Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Hebrew Aramaic Lexicon and Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon.



First, the Hebrew words for soul (nephesh) and spirit (ruach):


SOUL (nephesh):
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions

SPIRIT (ruach)
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character(13)

So in Hebrew "soul" refers to "that which breathes" and to the mind, desire, and emotions.
And "spirit" refers to "that which breathes" and the part of us which experiences emotions and is responsible for "mental acts."

ey dwell within.

 

[ewq1938]

I agree. In the New Testament the Greek word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction (which is consistent throughout the New Testament) between the body (soma) and the soul.
​

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):


SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)



Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. And notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b). Only #4 for spirit gives so much as a hint the two might be distinct.

Again using the Strong's:




Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.



Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both.[/quote]


Spirit: "by analogy or figuratively a spirit" and "the rational soul"
Soul: "(by implication) spirit" and "the rational and immortal soul"

Same exact meanings.



Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Here clearly soul cannot mean the body or even the humanly life because converting people does not save them from physical death. It is speaking of the second death which is when soul and spirit and body are killed.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



Here is an interesting verse:

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. '

This word means a spirit as well as a soul


psuche¯
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living spirit; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living spirit; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And in reverse the other word for "spirit" can mean soul so the verse can also be this:


1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living spirit; the last Adam was made a quickening SOUL.

G4151
p?e??µa
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Just goes to show how interchangeable and similar the soul and spirit are. Both being separate and different from the body th

 

[Zao is life]

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. -- verse 23.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. -- verses 26-27

One sacrifice for sins, once for all. One New Covenant in Christ's blood. 2,000 years ago. No coming covenant.

Israel will be saved when Jesus as King turns away the ungodliness from Jacob.

One sacrifice for sins, once for all. One New Covenant in Christ's blood. 2,000 years ago. No coming covenant.

Paul gave us the timing in the chapter itself. Israel will be restored, those lost ten tribes, after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. -- verse 23.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. -- verses 26-27

One sacrifice for sins, once for all. One New Covenant in Christ's blood. 2,000 years ago. No coming covenant.

You have replaced the Second Coming with an ongoing restoration over the last two millennia. Paul states one thing. You state your own thing, based on years of human orthodoxy.

What nonsense. According to you no Jew who was broken off through unbelief can be grafted back in until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Not what I posted

OK. If you say so.

, nor can you even prove that is what I implied.

Not sure what your assertion implies then. But OK.

 

[Freedm]

You did not "literally" quote God the Creator. You chose to find a passage you think sustains your claim.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (King James Version, hereafter cited as KJV)

...and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it. (New Revised Standard Version, hereafter cited as NRSV)

...and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life’s breath returns to God who gave it. (New English Translation, hereafter cited as NET)

Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

Genesis 7:22
Job 33:4 and Isaiah 42:5

I literally quoted scripture when I said "dust you are and to dust you shall return". That is a literal quote, and you know it. You've quoted a different part of scripture, which in no way disagrees with the piece I quoted, not does it negate my point which is that we are dust and nothing but.

That which returns to God upon death is the life that God breathed into Adam in Genesis 2:7. It's not a separate, but equally conscious, entity that lives inside the body. That wouldn't make any sense for several reasons.

1. If we are dust, as God said, then we are not spirit.
2. If we have a spirit inside the body, then it can not be conscious, because if it were, then we would be spirit, not dust.
3. Both the body and the spirit can not be equally and separately conscious as that would require us to be two separate entities.
4. Only that which is conscious, is what we are, and since God said we are dust, then only the dust is conscious.

 

[Freedm]

There is no difference between them aside from their names.

So spirit and soul are synonyms? How then do you explain 1 Thess 5:23?

1 Thess 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

I literally quoted scripture when I said "dust you are and to dust you shall return". That is a literal quote, and you know it. You've quoted a different part of scripture, which in no way disagrees with the piece I quoted, not does it negate my point which is that we are dust and nothing but.

That which returns to God upon death is the life that God breathed into Adam in Genesis 2:7. It's not a separate, but equally conscious, entity that lives inside the body. That wouldn't make any sense for several reasons.

1. If we are dust, as God said, then we are not spirit.
2. If we have a spirit inside the body, then it can not be conscious, because if it were, then we would be spirit, not dust.
3. Both the body and the spirit can not be equally and separately conscious as that would require us to be two separate entities.
4. Only that which is conscious, is what we are, and since God said we are dust, then only the dust is conscious.

Be dust. Be just dirt,dust. Enjoy.

 

[ewq1938]

So spirit and soul are synonyms?

Yes.

How then do you explain 1 Thess 5:23?

1 Thess 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have one of each. We have two eyes etc etc. We have two invisible and intangible aspects of who we are inside of our bodies that leave when the body is dead.

 

[Zao is life]

Is the Jew's physical DNA replaced? No.

Is room at the Cross for the Jew replaced? No.

Is the Jew's opportunity to receive Christ replaced? No.

So what is replaced?

Sums it up very well.

I took the liberty of copying it from another thread.

 

[Zao is life]

I literally quoted scripture when I said "dust you are and to dust you shall return". That is a literal quote, and you know it. You've quoted a different part of scripture, which in no way disagrees with the piece I quoted, not does it negate my point which is that we are dust and nothing but.

That which returns to God upon death is the life that God breathed into Adam in Genesis 2:7. It's not a separate, but equally conscious, entity that lives inside the body. That wouldn't make any sense for several reasons.

1. If we are dust, as God said, then we are not spirit.
2. If we have a spirit inside the body, then it can not be conscious, because if it were, then we would be spirit, not dust.
3. Both the body and the spirit can not be equally and separately conscious as that would require us to be two separate entities.
4. Only that which is conscious, is what we are, and since God said we are dust, then only the dust is conscious.

"And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life [nephesh chay], I have given every green herb for food: and it was so." - Genesis 1:30

In the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction which is consistent throughout the New Testament between the body and the soul.

Here are some examples:-

THE MIND

Philippians 1:27
"Only let your conduct be as becomes the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you, or else am absent, I may hear of your affairs,
that you stand fast in one spirit [pneûma], striving together with one mind [psychḗ] for the faith of the gospel."

Hebrews 12:3
"For consider Him who endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest you be weary and faint in your minds [psychḗ]."

THE LIFE

Matthew 2:20
"..saying, Arise, and take the child and His mother. And go into the land of Israel. For the ones who sought the child's life [psychḗ] are dead."

Matthew 6:25
"Therefore I say to you, Do not be anxious for your life [psychḗ], what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not life [psychḗ] more than food, and the body more than clothing?"

Matthew 10:39
"He who finds his life [psychḗ] shall lose it. And he who loses his life [psychḗ] for My sake shall find it."

THE SOUL

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body [sōma], but are not able to kill the soul [psychḗ]. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul [psychḗ] and body [sōma] in géenna."

Matthew 12:18
"Behold My servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved, in whom My soul [psychḗ] is well pleased. I will put My Spirit [pneûma] on Him, and He shall declare judgment to the nations."

The above is a quote from Isaiah:

Isaiah 42:1
"Behold My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect, in whom My soul [Hebrew: nephesh] delights. I have put My Spirit [Hebrew: rûach] on Him; He shall bring out judgment to the nations."

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [chay] soul [nephesh]." -- Genesis 2:7

"The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." -- John 3:8

The distinction made throughout scripture is not between "dust and dust". It's between the life (soul) experienced in the body and eternal life experienced in the body. This is why the resurrection of the body from the dead is an integral part of the gospel, and this is why we are told that our eternal life is IN CHRIST, who we are also told is alone immortal and alone has life IN HIMSELF.

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body [sōma], but are not able to kill the soul [psychḗ]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in géenna."

Jesus corrects your thinking in the above exhortation.​

 

[rwb]

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):
SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)

Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. And notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b). Only #4 for spirit gives so much as a hint the two might be distinct.

Again using the Strong's:

Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both.

I agree the soul/spirit are intricately linked together, but when man is born again through the Spirit of Christ, the eternal life we receive through the Spirit within our spirit is eternal. Eternal life man possesses is spiritual life that even after physical death continues to be a living soul. When man of faith physically dies we are still a living soul in heaven without physical form. When our spirit leaves our physical body eternally alive through Christ's Spirit we ascend to heaven a spiritual body of believers. This is the temporary habitations for souls, spiritually alive in heaven until the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete, and we are reunited with resurrected immortal & incorruptible body of flesh, to one again be a complete living soul, with body + spirit.

Even the spirit of man that dies in unbelief returns to God who gave it, but without eternal life through Christ's Spirit. So in death they are not living soul, but said to be in darkness and silence until the physical resurrection of all the dead in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. Then they too shall be resurrected mortal and be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[rwb]

So spirit and soul are synonyms? How then do you explain 1 Thess 5:23?

1 Thess 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's simply a prayer for the whole person. That the spirit within the physical being (soul) along with the body of believers may be found blameless when the Lord comes again. The body + spirit is a living soul. But the body without the spirit is a corpse. A prayer for the well-being of the whole man, that is the inner man (mind/spirit) plus body that is a living soul.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Holy Smokes there's a lot of Catholics on here.

Why wouldn't there be?
We've been around longer than any other Christian group.

Christianity was not even available until Acts chapter 2.

And your point is??

 

[Freedm]

We have one of each. We have two eyes etc etc. We have two invisible and intangible aspects of who we are inside of our bodies that leave when the body is dead.

So.... we have two spirits? Are both these spirits individually conscious?

 

[Peterlag]

Why wouldn't there be?
We've been around longer than any other Christian group.

And your point is??

My point had to be for a reason, but since you pulled a statement I made out of context probably when I was responding to someone else is why I don't know what my point was. Mostly when I say something like that it's because so many Christians believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32). Now if you're Catholic then you probably believe the gospels were written to Christians even though Christians did not exist until the book of Acts.

 

[Freedm]

That's simply a prayer for the whole person. That the spirit within the physical being (soul) along with the body of believers may be found blameless when the Lord comes again. The body + spirit is a living soul. But the body without the spirit is a corpse. A prayer for the well-being of the whole man, that is the inner man (mind/spirit) plus body that is a living soul.

So spirit and soul are not synonyms. I thought you said they were synonyms. My mistake.

I actually agree with you that the body and spirit together, make a soul, a living being. I don't think we agree on what "spirit" is though. I believe it is our breath of life, or more specifically just our life. Kind of like the energy from a battery. When you take the battery out, the bunny stops moving, but the spirit is no more the man, than the battery is the bunny. It's just a source of life.

 

[Freedm]

"And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life [nephesh chay], I have given every green herb for food: and it was so." - Genesis 1:30

In the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction which is consistent throughout the New Testament between the body and the soul.

Here are some examples:-

THE MIND

Philippians 1:27
"Only let your conduct be as becomes the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you, or else am absent, I may hear of your affairs,
that you stand fast in one spirit [pneûma], striving together with one mind [psychḗ] for the faith of the gospel."

Hebrews 12:3
"For consider Him who endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest you be weary and faint in your minds [psychḗ]."

THE LIFE

Matthew 2:20
"..saying, Arise, and take the child and His mother. And go into the land of Israel. For the ones who sought the child's life [psychḗ] are dead."

Matthew 6:25
"Therefore I say to you, Do not be anxious for your life [psychḗ], what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not life [psychḗ] more than food, and the body more than clothing?"

Matthew 10:39
"He who finds his life [psychḗ] shall lose it. And he who loses his life [psychḗ] for My sake shall find it."

THE SOUL

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body [sōma], but are not able to kill the soul [psychḗ]. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul [psychḗ] and body [sōma] in géenna."

Matthew 12:18
"Behold My servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved, in whom My soul [psychḗ] is well pleased. I will put My Spirit [pneûma] on Him, and He shall declare judgment to the nations."

The above is a quote from Isaiah:

Isaiah 42:1
"Behold My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect, in whom My soul [Hebrew: nephesh] delights. I have put My Spirit [Hebrew: rûach] on Him; He shall bring out judgment to the nations."

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [chay] soul [nephesh]." -- Genesis 2:7

"The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." -- John 3:8

The distinction made throughout scripture is not between "dust and dust". It's between the life (soul) experienced in the body and eternal life experienced in the body. This is why the resurrection of the body from the dead is an integral part of the gospel, and this is why we are told that our eternal life is IN CHRIST, who we are also told is alone immortal and alone has life IN HIMSELF.

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body [sōma], but are not able to kill the soul [psychḗ]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in géenna."

Jesus corrects your thinking in the above exhortation.​

I don't really feel like I've been corrected, although some of the scriptures are admittedly difficult to fully grasp. The word spirit in particular. Soul is easy. Soul is a living creature, but spirit is harder to nail down. For example, what is "the spirit of Christmas"? It's a feeling, an attitude, a vibe, and I think that oftentimes this is what's meant in scripture as well. Like when Paul says "May you stand fast in one spirit" (Philippians 1:27). However, when John says in John 3:8 "everyone who is born of the spirit", this is a little more difficult to explain, though he's clearly referring to those who are in Christ, but I struggle to wrap a clear and concise definition around the word in this context.

 

[rwb]

So spirit and soul are not synonyms. I thought you said they were synonyms. My mistake.

I actually agree with you that the body and spirit together, make a soul, a living being. I don't think we agree on what "spirit" is though. I believe it is our breath of life, or more specifically just our life. Kind of like the energy from a battery. When you take the battery out, the bunny stops moving, but the spirit is no more the man, than the battery is the bunny. It's just a source of life.

The breath of life is our spirit. Our spirit is the inner man, which gives life functions to every part of our body. Our spirit is in essence who we are. It is our mind, heart, will, emotions, the control center for every organ and flow of blood. Soul too like our spirit equates to being alive. If you do a word study on "breath of life" in Gen 2:7, you'll find it means to have divine inspiration, intellect as soul/spirit with physical life or something possessing appetite with raw flesh. Every living breathing creature upon the earth with body + spirit (breath of life) is a living soul as long as the physical body possesses physical life. In death the body becomes a corpse, and the spirit returns to God who gave it (Ecc 12:7) without spiritual life, if it does not possess the life-giving Spirit of Christ. But the body that dies with the Holy Spirit of Christ within ascends to heaven a spiritual body of believers to wait for the Kingdom of God to be complete.

 

[Peterlag]

So spirit and soul are not synonyms. I thought you said they were synonyms. My mistake.

I actually agree with you that the body and spirit together, make a soul, a living being. I don't think we agree on what "spirit" is though. I believe it is our breath of life, or more specifically just our life. Kind of like the energy from a battery. When you take the battery out, the bunny stops moving, but the spirit is no more the man, than the battery is the bunny. It's just a source of life.

If what you say is true. Then how do we explain men walking around who do not have spirit?

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Freedm]

If what you say is true. Then how do we explain men walking around who do not have spirit?

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I think spirit in this context refers not to an entity but to a commitment / belief / attitude / vibe / mood. In the same way we talk about "the spirit of Christmas" or "the spirit of Halloween". We're talking about "the spirit of Christianity". So when you ask about "men walking around who do not have spirit", remember how many times you've heard it asked "Where's your Christmas spirit?"

EDIT: For clarity, In some scriptures however, the word pneuma (translated as spirit in most English Bibles) refers to our life which God gave us in Genesis 2:7. I honestly think we should have two different words for these two very different things. It's confusing.

 

[Peterlag]

I think spirit in this context refers not to an entity but to a commitment / belief / attitude / vibe / mood. In the same way we talk about "the spirit of Christmas" or "the spirit of Halloween". We're talking about "the spirit of Christianity". So when you ask about "men walking around who do not have spirit", remember how many times you've heard it asked "Where's your Christmas spirit?"

EDIT: For clarity, In some scriptures however, the word pneuma (translated as spirit in most English Bibles) refers to our life which God gave us in Genesis 2:7. I honestly think we should have two different words for these two very different things. It's confusing.

It is not confusing to me and I never asked someone about their Christmas spirit. But I am an expert on the spirit of Christ and have detail files on it. Here's a paragraph...

I was taught God or Christ was showing me something when I walk by the spirit. Maybe it's the spirit showing me something when I walk by the spirit. In Romans 8:4, it's suggesting we walk after or by this spirit. In Romans 8:9, it calls this spirit the spirit of Christ. In Romans 8:11, it calls this spirit the spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead and that it dwells in us. In 1 Corinthians 3:16, it calls it the spirit of God that dwells in us. In Galatians 4:6, it's called the spirit of his son. And in Galatians 5:16, it talks about walking in this spirit. Very few Christians know who they are in the spirit because most of us have been taught by our religious leaders that we are sinners by nature.