Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?

[Eternally Grateful]

It is truly with sadness for your soul that I say this, I knew you weren't kidding. I know you truly believe that way.

For the preaching of the cross is ....foolishness;...unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

You can keep believing the cross is foolishness and I'll keep believing it is powerful, because I am saved.

The cross is not foolishness.

Universal salvation is.

I am just stating the cross is nullified and inessential if everyone will be saved.

I am saved also.

And NOW you want to SWITCH, and minimize the SIN that you have so aggrandized as being worthy of ETERNAL TORTURE????
I just believe the bible, and the fact that God knew the COST of SIN better than you. And He knew it would take His son's life as the price to be paid for ALL His creation. God knew the COST and you don't, that seems to be the 'simple truth' answer for me.

You are mocking the cross because scripture says the PREACHING OF death on THE CROSS IS FOOLISHNESS. And what we are saying is magnifying the GOD whose plan of salvation has surpassed the minds of those who simply do not understand.

This just proves you have not the slightest idea of what I said or an talking about.

If you want to ramble on. Feel free.. But until you actually talk about what I said. I will move on

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Word became a human flesh body and that body is the only thing that died.

this shows you do not understand the cross yourself. Jesus died twice that day.

What church do you go to that teaches most of God's created human population isn't going to end up in ETERNAL HELL????

I have never stated anything that even resembles this false notion.

do you have a comprehension problem?

Not a scripture in the whole book that says that.

And on the cross Jesus SENT His spirit to the Father BEFORE His human body died of asphixiation.

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

Now you produce ONE verse saying; 'spiritual death'. I've never found one.

Spiritual death. One verse?

My God My God why have you forsaken (departed) from me.

Jesus cried out these words in horrific pain all the things done to his physical body, yet he spoke not a word. Not until the 9th hour. What happen at that time that caused Christ to scream in pain?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm sorry what you just said doesn't even make sense.

Well you have proven in your past 2 posts you haven’t the slightest idea of what I am even talking about.

So it makes sense you do not understand that either.

I believe that's what we're telling you. Suffering for ETERNITY in HELL is a HELL of a lot worse than spending your time "apart from Him". If you can't 'see that'. maybe you just don't have "eyes to see" OR "ears to hear" what we "see and hear". I've seen people all my life who are living their entire lives on earth "apart from him" and I don't hear them screaming in more UNGODLY PAIN than even Hitler could invoke.

Spending time apart from him IS HELL

If you can;t see that.. I do not know what to tell you

I don't believe that my OMNISCIENT GOD was so DUMB he forgot that He only made Hell for Satan and a few angels, when He was really going to 'fill it up' with humans who died never getting saved......from 1st Adam to the last human.

You simply don't know that the "fire of Hell" is purgative and a tool of Satan and his angels to BURN THE HELL OUT OF YOU. That' was the MINISTRY God created Satan for.

PSA 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

1CO 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1TI 1:20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.


So, Eternally Grateful.....doesn't your "spirit getting SAVED" and your SOUL learning "NOT TO BLASPHEME". sound like GOOD THINGS?
Does to me, so maybe your theology has a few holes you don't know about.

Yawn

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Does it actually say that? (nope)

/

I have witnessed it. I have witnessed missionaries who said they went into an area that has not heard the gospel. And the people say God told them he would send someone to them

Is God going to let people reject him with no hope?

Thats as bad as Calvinism

The HS we are told will convince the WORLD of sin righteousness and judgment.

What the world does with that conviction will determine Gods reaction to them.

 

[St. SteVen]

I have witnessed it. I have witnessed missionaries who said they went into an area that has not heard the gospel. And the people say God told them he would send someone to them

That answers for one tribe. Keep going. You have millions to go.

Is God going to let people reject him with no hope?

Thats as bad as Calvinism

Right. So cut it out.

The HS we are told will convince the WORLD of sin righteousness and judgment.

What the world does with that conviction will determine Gods reaction to them.

More pseudo-biblical misquotes.
Still waiting for your Romans chapter one proof.

/

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Good points, thanks.

My topic was to address the misconception that UR was a modern/liberal doctrinal invention.
Obviously, it has its roots in the theology of the early church, and as you pointed out,
in the writings of Paul. Which opponents of UR claim we are taking out of context.

/

I know the point you were making.
Christians always defend what we,each one,believe about God's message to us as the individual, by claiming those who don't read it our way are taking "it",whatever passage, out of context.

For me, I think God intends his message to be uniquely understood by each one. We are all one in Christ. No Jew,no Gentiles,no male,no female,separation categories. One.

I think too many think that means we are to all be of one mind too. Agree all scripture says exactly the same thing we all agree is there to be read.

Yet,even those who may think that don't all agree on the message of any or all of
the same passages.


I think too we have to make consideration for those who read and create God in their image and likeness.
Arguments that imply God hates all the same people as they do.

What better place to lock that down than a bottomless pit filled ,being it is bottomless,with fire and brimstone , so that the hated may suffer eternally.

Dualism.
Eternal life for the spiritually alive
in Heaven. Eternal suffering for the spiritually dead in Hell.

In the Old Words of Father,that is not what was said at all.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
God, Immanuel, The Word that gave his word,does not change. He is the same,yesterday,today,forever.

Ecclesiastes 12:7.
Living soul ,the breath of God, burns for eternity?
Just to teach itself a lesson?

But He's Omnibenevolent.
Humans. We put God in a box,in a building,in writing,and then argue God is only what is written because "he" said so and we wrote it down.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That answers for one tribe. Keep going. You have millions to go.

one? It was more than one my friend.

Right. So cut it out.

I am not the one saying he will

More pseudo-biblical misquotes.
Still waiting for your Romans chapter one proof.

/

Romans chapter 1 says no one will have an excuse

Show me where an unbeliever who is condemned will be saved.

 

[St. SteVen]

Romans chapter 1 says no one will have an excuse

No excuse for what?
(that apologetic falls apart on examination)

Show me where an unbeliever who is condemned will be saved.

It happened to both of us. You go first. - LOL

/

 

[Hillsage]

this shows you do not understand the cross yourself. Jesus died twice that day.

YOUR OPINION. I can't go to the throne and say YOU said. ONE verse is all I'm asking for that says what you just 'said'.

I have never stated anything that even resembles this false notion.

I never said you did. I asked WHAT CHURCH do you go to. And we'll find one of your hotshots confirm that they believe MOST are headed to ETERNAL HELL. I'll make it easier to hide, just tell us a denomination.

do you have a comprehension problem?

YES, YES, YES......AND IT's YOU!

Spiritual death. One verse?

My God My God why have you forsaken (departed) from me.

Uhhhh, are you kidding me????? Where are the words "SPIRITUAL DEATH". Again "SPIRITUAL DEATH".... ....And you have the gall to ask me if I have a comprehension problem?
And you jumped to 'spiritual death' to think I don't notice you couldn't prove Jesus died twice that day.????

Jesus cried out these words in horrific pain all the things done to his physical body, yet he spoke not a word. Not until the 9th hour.

I'm sorry, do you own a bible? Please quote your 'paraphrased understanding above' with some version of the BIBLE. There is no bible that says "HORRIFIC PAIN"....your paraphrase is simply Your HORRIFIC IMAGINATION.

What happen at that time that caused Christ to scream in pain?

NOT BIBLICAL NOT ONE VERSE TO SUPPORT YOUR THEOLOGY. He cried out about being "FORSAKEN"....he wasn't belly aching about how bad it hurt.

Good bye.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

YOUR OPINION. I can't go to the throne and say YOU said. ONE verse is all I'm asking for that says what you just 'said'.

I never said you did. I asked WHAT CHURCH do you go to. And we'll find one of your hotshots confirm that they believe MOST are headed to ETERNAL HELL. I'll make it easier to hide, just tell us a denomination.

YES, YES, YES......AND IT's YOU!


Uhhhh, are you kidding me????? Where are the words "SPIRITUAL DEATH". Again "SPIRITUAL DEATH".... ....And you have the gall to ask me if I have a comprehension problem?
And you jumped to 'spiritual death' to think I don't notice you couldn't prove Jesus died twice that day.????


I'm sorry, do you own a bible? Please quote your 'paraphrased understanding above' with some version of the BIBLE. There is no bible that says "HORRIFIC PAIN"....your paraphrase is simply Your HORRIFIC IMAGINATION.


NOT BIBLICAL NOT ONE VERSE TO SUPPORT YOUR THEOLOGY. He cried out about being "FORSAKEN"....he wasn't belly aching about how bad it hurt.

Good bye.

Yes, Good bye

When you want to discuss the word. Let me know. I will gladly discuss it with you.

PS. The wages of sin is death, Not physical death, If it was physical death, every who died physically would pay for their own sin, and again, the cross is meaningless.

Adam died the moment he sinned, and from that time all who are in adam are dead in sin.

Again, it’s not physical. We are told we have passed from death to life. How can I pass from death to life if I am not dead?

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already


If you leave this world in a state of unbelief, you will not see Heaven. You will remain in a condemned state for eternity.

 

[St. SteVen]

When you want to discuss the word. Let me know. I will gladly discuss it with you.

He asked you for biblical support for your claims and you failed to provide it.
Don't make him the bad guy.

/ cc: @Hillsage

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He asked you for biblical support for your your claims and you failed to provide it.
Don't make him the bad guy.

/ cc: @Hillsage

I gave him biblical support

Just because you and him disagree does not mean i did not give him support.

The dude misrepresented what I believed, then acted like he did nothing wrong..

But you want to defend him..

I guess as they say, those who believe the same stick by each other no matter what (rolling my eyes)

 

[Hillsage]

He asked you for biblical support for your claims and you failed to provide it.
Don't make him the bad guy.

/ cc: @Hillsage

Thank you for the defending word brother. If only he knew about a guy who argued with me for at least a year or more, on another Christian Forum concerning UR. But that brother argued WITH GOOD QUESTIONS and an attitude to follow the truth....no matter where it led......instead of holding a death grip on an opinionated attitude that he was right.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for the defending word brother. If only he knew about a guy who argued with me for at least a year or more, on another Christian Forum concerning UR. But that brother argued WITH GOOD QUESTIONS and an attitude to follow the truth....no matter where it led......instead of holding a death grip on an opinionated attitude that he was right.

Lol

I am not here to win. Your here to win.

Which explains why you misrepresented things I said.

You destroyed your own argument when you did that. Then failed to repent of your misdeeds..

I could care less about a guy in the other chatroom.

The penalty of sin is death (spiritual not physical)

that destroyed your argument

But you want to boast. Feel free.. I will boast in Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thank you for the defending word brother. If only he knew about a guy who argued with me for at least a year or more, on another Christian Forum concerning UR. But that brother argued WITH GOOD QUESTIONS and an attitude to follow the truth....no matter where it led......instead of holding a death grip on an opinionated attitude that he was right.

Yes. If only he knew. - LOL
Perhaps a similar tack would be in order?



/

 

[St. SteVen]

I could care less about a guy in the other chatroom.

Thanks. I love you too.

The penalty of sin is death (spiritual not physical)

that destroyed your argument

On the contrary. That supports the argument, not destroys it.

Yes, the penalty of sin is death. the price paid for all of us. Paid in full.
Do you suppose that payment was insufficient in some way?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I am not here to win. Your here to win.

Okay, time out you two.
Let's get back on topic.

- Do you understand where UR came from?
- Do you have some legitimate concerns about that?
- Does it seem valid to you, or invalid for some reason?
- If invalid, for what reason? Just because you weren't familiar?

/ cc: @Hillsage

 

[Ritajanice]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks. I love you too.

you were not that Guy.. so not sure what you are saying

On the contrary. That supports the argument, not destroys it.

Yes, the penalty of sin is death. the price paid for all of us. Paid in full.
Do you suppose that payment was insufficient in some way?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

/

No, it was sufficient.

But he said, If you fail to receive it. you will suffer.

John 3: “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

No one who leaves this world as an unbeliever will see heaven

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay, time out you two.
Let's get back on topic.

- Do you understand where UR came from?

Satan

- Do you have some legitimate concerns about that?

Huge concerns

- Does it seem valid to you, or invalid for some reason?

Invalid

- If invalid, for what reason? Just because you weren't familiar?

/ cc: @Hillsage

Again, If UR is real. the cross is foolishness. why die if everyone is going to heaven anyway. Your justice means nothing..

We are saved BY GRACE (the cross) but THROUGH faith.

no faith. no salvation. period.