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Behold

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They have a dead spirit for they have no capability of fellowshipping with God who is Spirit.

Not a dead spirit, but a spirit that is separated from God's Holy Spirit.

To regain this Spiritual Union with God., You must do what Jesus said to do....

= Jesus said.. ."You MUST be born again"..

This is to become a "new Creation" "in Christ" as "One with God".... = "Temple of the Holy Spirit"... ...having become "The Rightousness of God, in Christ".
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I didn't read JBO say a person is a spirit. I agree with what he has said #338. Mankind, along with every living breathing creature on the earth is a "living soul." That means we all have bodies of flesh with and a spirit within that gives our physical flesh & bone body life, called living souls. It is through our spirit that we are able to commune with God THROUGH His Holy Spirit in us when we are born again of His Spirit. When we physically die in Christ, human beings are still called "living souls", because our spirit leaves our dead body and ascends to heaven with LIFE through His Spirit in us. That's why there is such confusion between having a spirit and being a living soul.
He said... That being has a body, i.e., flesh,, and a spirit. All other animals are souls, living beings.

I had said ... If you were going to explain why a person is a spirit, or has one (depending on your view) could you explain why and what the importance would be?

If we took a poll here you would find believers on either side of things... I believe we are spirits living in a body and have a soul. To me the common sense of it is Our spirits go back to God on death according to Eccl 12:7

To me it is common sense that since the soul can be killed along with the body according to Matt 10:28 ergo the spirit is uniquely separate.

If JBO has a different view then I do... or you do it does not matter so long as your view includes a Spirit, Soul, and Body.
 

rwb

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I believe we are spirits living in a body and have a soul. To me the common sense of it is Our spirits go back to God on death according to Eccl 12:7

I agree human beings are a body with a spirit, but we don't have a soul, we ARE A LIVING SOUL, and that is inclusive of every living breathing creature upon the face of the earth. The living soul statis of believer does not end, as it does with other living creatures, when we die. Death simply means we are still alive spiritual body of believers in heaven called living "SOULS".
 

JBO

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Good point.

Question.... If you were going to explain why a person is a spirit, or has one (depending on your view) could you explain why and what the importance would be?
So back to my original question... If you were going to explain why a person is a spirit, or has one (depending on your view) could you explain why and what the importance would be? Or why it is necessary to have a spirit, or be one ( depending on your view?)
When the Bible says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them" (Gen 1:27), the spirit of man is that which is created in God's own image. It is that spirit in God's own image that separates man from the rest of the animals. Among other things it is the spirit of man that gives him a conscious awareness of his own being, whatever that entails. It is what gives man the ability to learn and know the difference between right and wrong.
 

Ronald Nolette

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On which?
Bothy. but it takes a little study and knowledge of the original languages.

Soul in the greek is psuche where we get psychology et al. It is the immaterial part of man which is mans thought and emotional seat.

Spirit is pneuma which is the immaterial part of man that is capapble of fellowshipping with god.

Hebrew had no distinction between body and soul and used nephesh for both. God used the greek to separate body (soma) and soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma)
 

Ronald Nolette

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Not a dead spirit, but a spirit that is separated from God's Holy Spirit.
So show me the verse from Gods Word! God does not need you to interpret His word for HIm. He is far more intelligent than all of us combined. He knows how to inspire people to write what He wants them to!

He wrote we are dead and not sparated! If He meant separated, He would have said so! He does not need behold to be HIs editor.
 

rwb

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When the Bible says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them" (Gen 1:27), the spirit of man is that which is created in God's own image. It is that spirit in God's own image that separates man from the rest of the animals. Among other things it is the spirit of man that gives him a conscious awareness of his own being, whatever that entails. It is what gives man the ability to learn and know the difference between right and wrong.

Yes, when man disobeyed God and heeded the voice of the evil power of this world, the spirit in man created in the likeness and image of God became dead spiritually in trespasses and sins. The spirit that became spiritually dead no longer has the ability or inclination to know the ways of God, Who is Spirit, and to be worshipped in spirit and truth. From that very day man's spirit would have to be born again through the Spirit sent from Christ to know and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I agree human beings are a body with a spirit, but we don't have a soul, we ARE A LIVING SOUL, and that is inclusive of every living breathing creature upon the face of the earth. The living soul statis of believer does not end, as it does with other living creatures, when we die. Death simply means we are still alive spiritual body of believers in heaven called living "SOULS".
Well, from everything I have ever read or studied on this subject you and I are going to disagree.

But how about this.....

How about you, being a man... reading and interpreting what a man wrote, based on being inspired to write the words he did explain this.

Mathew 10:28. (use your favorite translation)28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It is not your soul that communicates with God. Your spirit and soul are not now, nor will they be one.
 

JBO

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The spirit that became spiritually dead no longer has the ability or inclination to know the ways of God,
Be careful with that one, I do not believe that the spiritually dead no longer has the ability or inclination to know the ways of God. Did Adam and Eve, once they had sinned, no longer have the ability or inclination to know what God was saying to them or what He wanted them to do? I think they did.

For what it is worth, I believe that regeneration, being born again, is a strictly New Testament, New Covenant, feature. I do not believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit was given to the "ordinary" believer in the OT, OC. The empowering Holy Spirit was given to a select few, but there is no comparable giving of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT. That was but one of the things that changed between the two covenants.
 

rwb

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Well, from everything I have ever read or studied on this subject you and I are going to disagree.

But how about this.....

How about you, being a man... reading and interpreting what a man wrote, based on being inspired to write the words he did explain this.

Mathew 10:28. (use your favorite translation)28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It is not your soul that communicates with God. Your spirit and soul are not now, nor will they be one.

Christ is telling us not to fear the one who can kill our body; i.e. take life from our living physical soul, thereby leaving us dead/a corpse. Because death of the body of believers does kill our living spirit, we continue to be a living soul. Those who die in Christ, have no fear of physical death, because when our body breathes its last as living spiritual body of believers we ascend to heaven still alive as living soul. Only God can kill both body (physical form) with spirit (inner man), thereby killing the soul in the eternal flames that is the second death.
 

rwb

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Be careful with that one, I do not believe that the spiritually dead no longer has the ability or inclination to know the ways of God. Did Adam and Eve, once they had sinned, no longer have the ability or inclination to know what God was saying to them or what He wanted them to do? I think they did.

For what it is worth, I believe that regeneration, being born again, is a strictly New Testament, New Covenant, feature. I do not believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit was given to the "ordinary" believer in the OT, OC. The empowering Holy Spirit was given to a select few, but there is no comparable giving of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT. That was but one of the things that changed between the two covenants.

If Adam and Eve retained the ability to commune with God after realizing God spoke truth, why did they hide from Him, and try to hide their nakedness with fig leaves? When their eyes were opened they became ashamed, knowing what they had done and what it would cost them. Then God provided a sacrifice for them through the blood of an animal, which symbolizes the need to be covered by the blood of Christ to be saved. After that God drove them out of the garden of Eden and placed Cherubims and a flaming sword to bar them from the tree of life, so they could NOT eat and live forever. The only way they could find eternal life again is through the one who would come to crush the head of the serpent. They must believe the message of the seed (Christ) of the woman who would come by grace through faith to again be accepted by God.

Christ very clearly tells us that unless a man/woman is born again of the Spirit he/she cannot know or enter the Kingdom of God. This has always been the only way to be eternally saved in Christ through the Gospel preached in the power of His Spirit. It's the same salvation plan for those of Old Covenant Israel as well as to New Covenant saints throughout the earth.
 

JBO

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If Adam and Eve retained the ability to commune with God after realizing God spoke truth, why did they hide from Him, and try to hide their nakedness with fig leaves?
Because, as is recorded, Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil". They knew then that they had done wrong. But there is no indication whatsoever that they had lost their ability to know and understand fully what God was saying to them.
When their eyes were opened they became ashamed, knowing what they had done and what it would cost them. Then God provided a sacrifice for them through the blood of an animal, which symbolizes the need to be covered by the blood of Christ to be saved.
Where do you read anything about God providing a sacrifice for them?

After that God drove them out of the garden of Eden and placed Cherubims and a flaming sword to bar them from the tree of life, so they could NOT eat and live forever. The only way they could find eternal life again is through the one who would come to crush the head of the serpent. They must believe the message of the seed (Christ) of the woman who would come by grace through faith to again be accepted by God.
There is nothing that indicates that God told them anything about Christ, or grace through faith.
Christ very clearly tells us that unless a man/woman is born again of the Spirit he/she cannot know or enter the Kingdom of God.
That is strictly a New Covenant circumstance.
This has always been the only way to be eternally saved in Christ through the Gospel preached in the power of His Spirit. It's the same salvation plan for those of Old Covenant Israel as well as to New Covenant saints throughout the earth.
That is simply not true. There is nothing in the Bible that tells you that. That is your own eisegesis. That is hinted at first by John the Baptist; and even then it took Peter's sermon on Pentecost to spell that out. The old covenant was a covenant of animal sacrifice and faith that God would accept them. Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Paul's Dolxology to his letter to the Romans makes that clear.

Rom 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages
Rom 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith--

Rom 16:27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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JBO gave you very fine answers to this... bur I have a few comments of myown....


If Adam and Eve retained the ability to commune with God after realizing God spoke truth, why did they hide from Him, and try to hide their nakedness with fig leaves?

OBVIOUSLY they had the ability to commune with God, buck naked..... God asked where they were and why they were hiding and covering themselves (paraphrased) and they answered... well, Adam did when he said the woman God gave him told him to eat the fruit.

If they had lost that ability no explanation from Adam would have been forthcoming.
When their eyes were opened they became ashamed, knowing what they had done and what it would cost them. Then God provided a sacrifice for them through the blood of an animal, which symbolizes the need to be covered by the blood of Christ to be saved.

What animal?
After that God drove them out of the garden of Eden and placed Cherubims and a flaming sword to bar them from the tree of life, so they could NOT eat and live forever. The only way they could find eternal life again is through the one who would come to crush the head of the serpent. They must believe the message of the seed (Christ) of the woman who would come by grace through faith to again be accepted by God.

I hesitate to point out the obvious but it was multiple centuries from their banishment and Jesus entering the world via Mary.

Do you think maybe God put them in a coma and then revived them when it was time to learn of Christ's teachings? YEAH!!!! That must be it
Christ very clearly tells us that unless a man/woman is born again of the Spirit he/she cannot know or enter the Kingdom of God. This has always been the only way to be eternally saved in Christ through the Gospel preached in the power of His Spirit. It's the same salvation plan for those of Old Covenant Israel as well as to New Covenant saints throughout the earth.
I quasi -agree with this.

Got Questions simplifies an answer with:
If the Old Testament way of salvation was not keeping the Law, then how were people saved? Fortunately, the answer to that question is easily found in Scripture, so there can be no doubt as to what was the Old Testament way of salvation. In Romans 4 the apostle Paul makes it very clear that the Old Testament way of salvation was the same as the New Testament way, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. To prove this, Paul points us to Abraham, who was saved by faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness” (Romans 4:3). Again, Paul quotes the Old Testament to prove his point—Genesis 15:6, this time. Abraham could not have been saved by keeping the Law, because he lived over 400 years before the Law was given!

Much of Romans and Galatians addresses the fact that there is only one way of salvation and only one gospel message. Throughout history people have tried to pervert the gospel by adding human works to it, requiring certain things to be done to “earn” salvation. But the Bible’s clear message is that the way of salvation has always been through faith. In the Old Testament, it was faith in the promise that God would send a Savior someday. Those who lived in the time of the Old Testament looked forward to the Messiah and believed God’s promise of the coming Servant of the Lord (Isaiah 53). Those who exercised such faith were saved. Today we look back on the life, death, and resurrection of the Savior and are saved by faith in Jesus Christ’s atonement for our sins (Romans 10:9-10).

The gospel is not an exclusively New Testament message. The Old Testament contained it as well: “The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith” (Galatians 3:8-9, quoting Genesis 12:3).

As early as Genesis 3:15, we see the promise of a coming Savior, and throughout the Old Testament there are hundreds of promises that the Messiah would “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21; cf. Isaiah 53:5-6). Job’s faith was in the fact that he knew that his “Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth” (Job 19:25). Clearly, Old Testament saints were aware of the promised Redeemer, and they were saved by faith in that Savior, the same way people are saved today. There is no other way. Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:11-12, quoting Psalm 118:22). tipping_hat_smiley.gif
 

rwb

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Where do you read anything about God providing a sacrifice for them?

The blood of an animal had to be sacrificed to cover their nakedness. This is a symbolic depiction of Christ giving His blood to make atonement for sin.

Genesis 3:21-24 (KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

There is nothing that indicates that God told them anything about Christ, or grace through faith.

This too, symbolically points to the enmity between the seed of Satan and the seed of the woman (Christ) that shall be resolved by the destruction of the seed of Satan.

Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

We have assurance of triumph given us here. The seed of the woman Christ shall produce a believing body for Christ. Satan, as in the beginning, shall hurt or bruise us, but the Lord will shortly bruise his head. As Jesus took on a human nature, that He might avenge Himself and His people upon Satan, so they shall triumph in Christ. The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly, who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 16:20 (KJV) And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

That is strictly a New Covenant circumstance.

The New Covenant is through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It would be a New Covenant through Christ literally coming to earth. But the Covenant of redemption was established in heaven before creation. There is only one way of salvation. In the Old the coming Messiah was taught through the Law and Prophets. To be saved the Old Covenant people MUST believe the prophesy and through faith keep the commandments of God for eternal life through the Messiah who was to come.
That is simply not true. There is nothing in the Bible that tells you that. That is your own eisegesis. That is hinted at first by John the Baptist; and even then it took Peter's sermon on Pentecost to spell that out. The old covenant was a covenant of animal sacrifice and faith that God would accept them. Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

What from God did Abraham believe that he was accounted for righteousness? Not only was Abraham saved by grace through faith when he heard and believed the Gospel of Christ, the Messiah who was to come, but so too did the Jews of Old hear the message of the coming Messiah, and those who according to grace through faith believed were eternally saved looking forward to Him coming to save them.

Galatians 3:7-9 (KJV) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Romans 10:16-21 (KJV) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

From the beginning of creation there has always been only one way for mankind to be eternally saved. That by grace through faith when we hear the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit, and whosoever believes have received eternal life through Christ.
 

rwb

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OBVIOUSLY they had the ability to commune with God, buck naked..... God asked where they were and why they were hiding and covering themselves (paraphrased) and they answered... well, Adam did when he said the woman God gave him told him to eat the fruit.

If they had lost that ability no explanation from Adam would have been forthcoming.

There was communication between God and Adam & Eve after they committed sin and brought death to creation when they disobeyed God. But communication means the ability to hear spoken words, and that is not the same as having the ability to commune with God. They could no longer commune, which is to live together and share or take part with one another. That ability was lost because Adam and Eve were driven out of the garden, and away from God's presence.
What animal?

Where do you believe the coat of skins to make coverings for their nakedness came from? An animal had to die to give them a covering. Does that remind you of anything else?

Genesis 3:21 (KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

I hesitate to point out the obvious but it was multiple centuries from their banishment and Jesus entering the world via Mary.

It's very challenging to try to communicate with those who do not know their Bible. What do you think the Bible means when it speaks of Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Do you think maybe there was a plan, a means, a way already established in heaven for the LORD God to save His people from sin and death? Do you think the fall took God by surprise? Did He have a plan A that failed, so He sends in Christ as plan B?
 

JBO

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The blood of an animal had to be sacrificed to cover their nakedness. This is a symbolic depiction of Christ giving His blood to make atonement for sin.
Well first of all killing the animals for the hides is not a sacrifice. Second, God doesn't sacrifice to himself. Third, God wouldn't even need to kill an animal to provide skins for cover. He could simply make the skins. But at any rate none of that is anything more than making some form of clothing for Adam and E

Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

We have assurance of triumph given us here. The seed of the woman Christ shall produce a believing body for Christ. Satan, as in the beginning, shall hurt or bruise us, but the Lord will shortly bruise his head. As Jesus took on a human nature, that He might avenge Himself and His people upon Satan, so they shall triumph in Christ. The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly, who are in Christ Jesus.
I understand that many find in Genesis 3:15 some prophecy concerning Christ on the cross. I personally think that is a real stretch. God has just said that same creature would go on his belly and would eat dust.
Romans 16:20 (KJV) And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
Here again, I think it is a real stretch to connect Romans 16:20 to Genesis 3:15.
The New Covenant is through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It would be a New Covenant through Christ literally coming to earth. But the Covenant of redemption was established in heaven before creation. There is only one way of salvation. In the Old the coming Messiah was taught through the Law and Prophets. To be saved the Old Covenant people MUST believe the prophesy and through faith keep the commandments of God for eternal life through the Messiah who was to come.
Not even the disciples who lived and walked with Jesus throughout His ministry on earth understood the prophecies concernng Jesus as the Messiah. They had to be divinely inspired at Pentecost to really understand any of it.
What from God did Abraham believe that he was accounted for righteousness? Not only was Abraham saved by grace through faith when he heard and believed the Gospel of Christ, the Messiah who was to come, but so too did the Jews of Old hear the message of the coming Messiah, and those who according to grace through faith believed were eternally saved looking forward to Him coming to save them.
Where in the world to you read that Abraham was told anything about the Gospel of Christ? You are truly reading a lot more into the Scriptures than what is actually there. That is not good.
Galatians 3:7-9 (KJV) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
You highlighted the wrong words. What God said to Abraham was "In you shall all the nations be blessed." That is what God told Abraham. Paul is telling us thousands of years after Abraham that blessing would accrue to those of faith.
Romans 10:16-21 (KJV) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

From the beginning of creation there has always been only one way for mankind to be eternally saved. That by grace through faith when we hear the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit, and whosoever believes have received eternal life through Christ.
But under the Old Covenant, all they had were the animal sacrifices. They knew nothing about Jesus Christ. The only messiah they knew was God. We now recognize, after the fact, the many prophecies in the OT Scriptures leading to Jesus Christ as the messiah. Read again the account of Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8). The key is in the Eunuch's response to Philip's question if he understood what he was reading which was, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" Remember, that not even Philip knew anything about that until after Jesus died and rose again and established His church at Pentecost.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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It's very challenging to try to communicate with those who do not know their Bible. What do you think the Bible means when it speaks of Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Do you think maybe there was a plan, a means, a way already established in heaven for the LORD God to save His people from sin and death? Do you think the fall took God by surprise? Did He have a plan A that failed, so He sends in Christ as plan B?
Ain't that the truth. Challenging. Even more so when one tries to tie a Revelation verse into speculating what one reads , for that is where you find slain from the foundation of the world.

Two of my bibles say:

King James Version

1 Peter 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Ah, was foreordained before the foundation

John 17:28
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

SMH thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

NASB95

1 Peter 1:19-20

19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you

Oh, foreknown before the foundation

John 17:28 “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Oops... You loved Me before the foundation

Now, Here we go..... finally

Revelation 13:8

NASB 1995

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

WOW: everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world??????

Finally.... King Jimmy named it.... but again not until Revelation.

KJV

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


I see two ways “from the foundation of the world” in Rev. 13:8 can be understood. It can connect to “written” so that the book is written from the foundation of the world, or it can connect to “slain” so that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

If you are defending the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world based on 1 Peter 1: 19-20 or John 17:24, where both have references to “before the foundation of the world,” indicating Jesus was “foreknown” and “foreloved,” note, neither reference even remotely intimates the Lamb being slain.

The names written in the Book of Life, were written from the time of the fall of man. Previously to the fall, there was no need of redemption. The Book of Life will culminate with those who will jeopardize their lives by not worshipping the beast but identifying with the slain Lamb.... but was not slain until he walked this earth.

Yes, there was a plan in place before the first "Let there be" was uttered... And Christ Jesus was at the center of the plan. But it was many centuries later He was actually slain.

So, because there is no definitive translation of slain from the foundation of the world.... to a definitive conclusion and all commentaries includes two possibilities with explanations....

be happy.

I am going to drop this for it is my opinion you are embracing what you believe
to fit your understanding and simply cannot see the potential that you could be erring.

Blessings.





 

mailmandan

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It only appears nonsensical to you because you believe those who are spiritually DEAD in trespasses and sins have the ability within themselves to muster up faith in Christ thereby believing Him.
I once heard someone basically say that the only thing involved in coming to saving faith in Christ is paper, ink and human intelligence as if they mustered up faith within themselves apart from God drawing and enabling them to believe. (John 6:44,65) Luke says “the Lord opened Lydia’s heart to believe.” This is similar to Luke 24:45 in which Jesus opens the hearts of his disciples so that they could understand the scripture. Lydia believes because the Lord enables her to understand and accept the Gospel as Paul preached it. The gospel does not come to us in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit.. (1 Thessalonians 1:5)
 
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JBO

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The gospel does not come to us in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit.. (1 Thessalonians 1:5)
And how, exactly, do you think that happens? Do you believe that God talks to you directly? That is not what 1 Thessalonians 1:5 is saying. Paul is once again affirming his own divine revelation, It has nothing to do with you, personally. When he stated in the last part of that verse, "You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake", the "we" is not you, but is the editorial "we" of the apostles and prophets of Jesus Christ to whom divine inspiration was given.
 

JBO

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It only appears nonsensical to you because you believe those who are spiritually DEAD in trespasses and sins have the ability within themselves to muster up faith in Christ thereby believing Him.
And you have done it again. You have changed the meaning of the word faith as it is used in scripture. "Muster up faith in Christ thereby believing Him" ? ? ? That is a completely nonsensical statement. Faith in Christ IS believing Him. But it is more than just believing Christ, it is believing IN Christ. Faith in Christ is believing in Christ. That is the definition. And that, we are told, "comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (Rom 10:17).